Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6034 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
» Home
» Features
» News
» Forums
» Classifieds
» Links
» Downloads
Extras
» OS4 Zone
» IRC Network
» AmigaWorld Radio
» Newsfeed
» Top Members
» Amiga Dealers
Information
» About Us
» FAQs
» Advertise
» Polls
» Terms of Service
» Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
33 crawler(s) on-line.
 16 guest(s) on-line.
 1 member(s) on-line.


 matthey

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 matthey:  4 mins ago
 OlafS25:  19 mins ago
 Agafaster:  21 mins ago
 billt:  33 mins ago
 BigD:  35 mins ago
 racer_hex:  46 mins ago
 zipper:  56 mins ago
 kolla:  1 hr 2 mins ago
 Neuf:  1 hr 19 mins ago
 MEGA_RJ_MICAL:  1 hr 25 mins ago

Events   Events : Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
   posted by sg2 on 29-Sep-2004 11:32:54 (20362 reads)
Hello All!

The html pages which are available at http://s.guillard.free.fr/alc4/index.html are just an introduction slideshow that I presented as a starter, it does not relate what I shown and said afterwards. Please find below a couple of notes about my presentation at Alchimie show.



1 ? Show highlights
Here is a quick summary of the presentation I did :

- I booted with boot delays set to 1 second for UBoot and for SLB (second level booter), thus less than 20 seconds after power on, we were with a fully loaded Workbench with Amidock.

- I started with the small html slideshow, presented on IBrowse. You can find those pages at the URL above. IBrowse loaded in 2 seconds with its about : page fully displayed. Browsing through the pages of the slideshow was instantaneous.

- While we were at it, I browsed the OS4 install guide, also as fast as can be, must say I also find this responsiveness impressive myself :)

Then I demoed as many things as I had time to during the 2 hours I had. Everything worked, fast & stable, and was smooth and impressed. I showed mainly:
- All os4 system, tools, utilities, prefs & stuff
- MUI, IBrowse, Amitradecenter
- Yam, SimpleMail
- ClassAction (M. Elsner's file manager)
- MakeCD
- MooVid running a DivX
- DVPlayer running an mpeg2
- AudioEvolution 4 with the demo project, cursors auto moving smoothly, the playback was smooth also, with mostly no CPU usage.
- AmiPDF with the AE4 manual and another heavy PDF file, very fast
- USB. I plugged a Microsoft IntelliMouse Optical into my USB hub, and we had 2 mice to control the system
- Crisot's slach5 winning demo (got applauses which it deserved)
- chip's rayrace realtime raytracer demo. When the juggler appeared, audience was impressed, but really took measure of what they were watching when I moved the mouse. Wait for the Altivec version !
- FPSE, AmiDog's PS1 emulator, with an oldskool game which ran nicely ('Cotton')
- some other visual toys I had at hand

The demos only grimreaped twice, and I anticipated the grims before they popped up :
- One was native glsokoban / w3d, when I launch it does a base page access (a ?null pointer? bug in glsokoban). I didactically shown the disassembly which is available in the grimreaper window, was a store to r4, r4 was null etc. I clicked on continue, and it all went fine & fast.

- One was frying pan 0.3.1, I shown the app, and at one point I said 'now it should grim? and it did. It still loaded fine though. I quit the app, clicked on reboot and less than 4 secs after, wb was up with amidock. That was the only reboot of the show.

I forgot to show (because of short time):
- Petunia... Almos, sorry, I had prepared something for that (side by side windowed jit & nonjit runs of voxelspace), but i both forgot, and was asked to stop at this point by the party organizers cause it was already 5:30 pm while I was scheduled until 4pm.
- ArtEffect
- USB with MassStorage (ie USB key or digital camera)

At the end, I had many fair questions to which I answered; my feeling is that the audience really appreciated the effort behind what I shown, and was conscious that we are not far away from a releasable 4.0.

Then came the expected question, 'and why doesn?t DMA work ?'

I said 'All what you saw was DMA since the 1st boot'.
I copied a few 100 MB files in a snap, with zero CPU (thanks to Pete Gordon for the clock/CPU docky, helps a lot). Then I switched to PIO, they saw 4 x slower and 80% CPU.
The audience understood that it was indeed DMA, and that was fast, and that was part of the overall smoothness of what I shown.

Then I explained the things below (this is the reference for my statements, please don?t rephrase or extrapolate or invent or whatever):

- IDE UDMA works on VIA and Articia on AmigaOne SE / XE / µA1 MK2 (as I demoed) ...
- ... except when the Ethernet chip goes online and is used.
- the Ethernet chip only triggers the problem, but it is not at all related to it (a test using a PCI Ethernet shows the same behaviour)
- We have made a driver for a Silicon Image 680 PCI IDE UDMA133 controller chip, this does UDMA 133 nicely, including when Ethernet is used at full speed.
- The fact that a PCI IDE controller solution works, shows that the problem is *not* related to Articia, since PCI DMA is *also* handled by the Articia, and that works.
- The full Alchimie show demo was done using UDMA, both from the VIA and from the Si680, without problem (but with Ethernet off, would the Ethernet have been turned online, I would have had to revert the VIA into PIO before).
- Things are currently under more investigation
In the meantime there are 2 options for existing A1 board owners:
- Use the VIA IDE controller in PIO mode when using Ethernet, and UDMA at other times,
- Purchase a faster (UDMA133) Silicon Image 0680 IDE PCI card (from around $20). This is my personally recommended option as the delivered speed is noticeable faster than the on-board VIA controller in UDMA mode.

Kind regards,
--
Stéphane
    

STORYID: 1752
Related Links
· More about Events
· News by sg2


Most read story about Events
Commodore Vegas Expo v5 - less than 85 days away!

Last news about Events
Passione Amiga Day 2022
Printer Friendly Page  Send this Story to a Friend

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 )

PosterThread
LordArt 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 16:57:27
#61 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Apr-2003
Posts: 113
From: South Bound Brook, NJ

At this point I'm very WARY of buying a card or whatever for the A1 before it's officially released for it. Things always have a tendency of changing, or at least enough that your purchase is superceeded or abandoned. Case and point, I bought one of the last "NTSC" 1200s that software hut had and a tower for it. I towerized it and was waiting for the A1, which at the time was going to hook up to it directly. Then it was going to be a PCI slot solution to hook up to it instead. Then the whole idea was abandoned all together. So I blew $500+ at the time for a towerized 1200 that to date has maybe 10 hours on it and is collecting dust (anyone want it?)
Then it was the "get the SCSI card supported by UBoot". Ok, so I got the SCSI card. I find out that SCSI only partially works because of DMA issues under linux and there was no way of doing a reliable "PIO" mode for it(I know SCSI doesn't have PIO, it was to refer to the fact of turning off DMA so it would run stably). Slowly my linux install corrupted. Of course I also find out that the scsi driver for OS4 is on low priority, which means it won't see the light of day for quite a while. Which means that the SCSI card is also useless. (So much for the 50GB SCSI and DVD SCSI in there).

So I'm going to wait a little before I go rushing out to buy another "this should do the job" product, before it's really the official way to go.

(BTW, I AM a coder, so wouldn't mind trying to get the SCSI driver to work if someone can point me in the right direction for what to port or what's required. I do application programming, not hardware drivers, and I am aware of the difference, but have done some minor low level stuff on the amiga. :) )

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
mbilla 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 17:08:04
#62 ]
Super Member
Joined: 25-May-2003
Posts: 1369
From: EU

Quote:
seriously this cant be for real its goto be some sort of joke the onboard sound not working was not so bad
but this its beyond a joke !!!


Remember you did buy a BETA computer (earlybird) intended to developers. Beta HW/SW has bugs.

I also have an A1 G4. So Ih ave to live with the problems if there are any. I will wait for AOS4 beta and AOS 4.0 full version and 4.1 ...

As for sound I already installed a Live 5.1 Soundblaster. I never liked IDE drives and controllers because they take away CPU time. I want SCSI and I'm waiting for that driver as I have many SCSI devices I want to use.


_________________
A computerworld without MS products and Windows!
Connect your Amigas ...
...The Red ONE-A1XE G4 - A3000T- A3000 - A4000 - A2500- A1000 - A600 - CDTV - CD32...
and your PDAs and laptops ...
Psion 5mx Pro - Psion NetBook - Apple iPhone - MSI Wind OSX

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 17:21:32
# ]



AmigaOS 4 is all looking good, nothing negative you can say about that.

The hardware on the other hand is the opposite. I'm seriously losing confidence in Eyetech and MAI's ability to deliver a solid product, and then sell it properly.

 
     Report this post  
KimmoK 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 17:30:19
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5206
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@mbilla
" I never liked IDE drives and controllers because they take away CPU time."

On AOS4 they take away about 3%, as it seems.

(my dislike on IDE is that they lack assynchronous capability, but I think also that it is minimal disadvantage with UDMA133)


_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
ajk 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 18:09:17
#65 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2003
Posts: 291
From: Finland

@olegil

Obviously shipping the board around will cost more than 30e. In my opinion, Eyetech should cover the cost of fixing these issues (be it a controller card or jumpwire), but I guess they won't have the resources. Perhaps some sort of a trade-in deal for a board from the newer batch would be in place.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 19:07:24
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 12103
From: Norway

"- Things are currently under more investigation
In the meantime there are 2 options for existing A1 board owners:"

I hope this is not going to delay the update,
I hope they just remove the DMA from the update,

personally I think it's a waste of time trying to fix the problem, move on to some thing you know is easier to fix, like worpup and powerup support, JIT or the Warp3D, then take out that hard VIA686b bug, if it can be solved at all,

one more think way is via686b not conflicting whit the SoundBlasterLive card or the graphics card?


_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
deakmann 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 19:34:06
#67 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 360
From: Unknown

A couple of questions:

1. I assume the latest PIO drivers are much faster than in the pre-release?


2. Does the IDE PCI card also work with Linux straight out of the box?


Cheers

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
elwood 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 20:01:17
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 17-Sep-2003
Posts: 3427
From: Lyon, France

1) you'll find it yourself downloading the update. Still a few days to go....

2) you need drivers of course. I don't know if someone can do them.


_________________
Philippe 'Elwood' Ferrucci
Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DrBombcrater 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 20:24:40
#69 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Feb-2004
Posts: 1382
From: UK

@deakman

Not sure about the Si680, but when I tried a Si649-based card under Linux it didn't work because the driver was unable to allocate an IRQ correctly.


_________________
Who do you serve, and who do you trust? - Galen

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
mjohnson 
Re: Things falling apart...
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 22:41:26
#70 ]
Super Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2003
Posts: 1297
From: going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

@mbilla

Quote:
Remember you did buy a BETA computer (earlybird) intended to developers. Beta HW/SW has bugs.

I also have an A1 G4. So Ih ave to live with the problems if there are any. I will wait for AOS4 beta and AOS 4.0 full version and 4.1 ...

This whole A1 experience is like watching something break before your very eyes, without any interaction on your behalf and without being able to do anything to prevent it from happening.

However, I hear you loud and clear. I bought my A1 a year ago, before the pre-release was announced, without knowing anything about when I might get my hands on OS4. But I knew that things were progressing from reports here at AW. However, I was very clear on my understanding that shelling out for my XE was a bit of a gamble. But I never had any second thoughts about it.
Then half a year later it paid off, and I'm now runnig OS4, which was what I wanted all along. I'm still happy about my purchase. And, had I known then what is known today, about the current issues as well as the fact that the next production run of XE's that wouldn't have these problems would surface more than a full year later, I don't think I would've acted any differently.

I still think that the pleasure of using OS4 so far makes up for any shortcomings of the hardware, in my most humble and highly personal opinion, and I obviously understand the fact that with the current market, R&D won't get gazillions of dollars anytime soon.
But still, I'm not jumping with excitement about the fact that there's another surprise in the XE bag-o'-tricks. And I won't be having any difficulties suppressing a chuckle if any more issues are discovered.


_________________
A1G4XE, OS4-pre

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Bean 
Re: Things falling apart...
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 23:10:54
#71 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2003
Posts: 1225
From: U.K.

I too am happy with my A1 and OS4 Pre.

Concerning the current DMA issue; I look forward to some "official" options being made available to us. Whether that be to add a new IDE card, solder some wires to the board or live with the improved PIO driver.

Personally I will seriously consider getting a newer uA1 board to run along side my XE board as long as it is known that the DMA issues and on-board peripherals are working 100% with OS4.

Cheers,

Bean.


_________________
OS4.1 + SAM Flex
RIP my A1XE.. that used to have an appetite for batteries!

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
poweramiga2002 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 23:20:56
#72 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2003
Posts: 1389
From: Flinders NSW Australia

@rossv

thanks ill give doug a ring today and organise the 3 of them

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
The_Editor 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 23:26:52
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7629
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

I clearly remember voicing my disappointment when it was announced the new Amiga would be using VIA chipsets.

I had so much trouble with Via on an ASUS board that I had to buy another MoBO Even though that board was brand spanking new.


VIA suck dead dogs #####

Death is too good for them.

They need the HomDAI


_________________
******************************************
I dont suffer from Insanity - I enjoy it

******************************************

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
mjohnson 
They do WHAT on WHAT?!
Posted on 29-Sep-2004 23:34:26
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2003
Posts: 1297
From: going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

@The_Editor

Quote:
VIA suck dead dogs #####

AAAARGH! The visuals! The visuals! Them be hurting my mind! My eyes they be a bleeding! My ears be fallen off me 'ead! The visuals! AAAARGH!


Note: Original message censored during quotation.


_________________
A1G4XE, OS4-pre

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
tonyw 
Re: They do WHAT on WHAT?!
Posted on 30-Sep-2004 0:58:17
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3226
From: Sydney (of course)

I'd much rather do the hardware mod to the mobo (apparently only the earlybird models have this problem), even if the resulting performance is less than for a separate card. The board is out of warranty and I could do the work, if only I knew what to do.

Just remember - when buying a PC mobo, you don't choose one with on-board sound and video if you want performance - you get a basic one and add high performance cards.

Frankly, I'm impressed that these XE boards have now been out for two years and this is the first wiring fault discovered on them.

tony


_________________
cheers
tony

Hyperion Support Forum: http://forum.hyperion-entertainment.biz/index.php

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Bodie 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 30-Sep-2004 3:11:28
#76 ]
Super Member
Joined: 9-Jan-2003
Posts: 1439
From: Azjol-Nerub

@DrBombcrater and Deakman

I've managed to run a sil0680 card successfully with Mai's ydl kernel.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
syrtran 
Re: They do WHAT on WHAT?!
Posted on 30-Sep-2004 3:12:08
#77 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Apr-2003
Posts: 835
From: Farther upstate than Upstate NY

@tonyw

I'm with you on doing a patch myself. (Note: I posted this on the ann
thread, too). My case only has 2 slots:
1-Radeon 7000
2-Soundblaster Live! (required due to the @#*& 686B)

I've got nowhere to put an IDE controller, and DMA would be nice on a
machine with broadband internet access.

I did the INT2 fix on my 3000, I should be able to do a rewire on the
A1. (Finding the right pin on that CPU connector wasn't fun.
Quadruple checking included)

On the plus side, U-boot 1.0 no longer hangs on the "invalid opcode"
error with the Radeon 8500DV, but it still doesn't initialize the
card. Here's hoping for U-boot 1.1!


_________________
Tony T.

People who generalize are always wrong.


1989 - 500 / 1991 - 3000 / 1997 - Genesis Flyer 1200T / 2003 - A1XE

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
jahc 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 30-Sep-2004 3:53:13
#78 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-May-2003
Posts: 2959
From: Auckland, New Zealand

Quote:

it is very easy

- Stick into PCI slot
- from uboot setenv ide sii
- saveenv
-reset..

From now on A1 start use Si680 as default IDE..

on AmigaOS4 si680ide.device.kmod takes care of IDE

I can use udma70 mode on my A1SE with Si680 PCI board...

Is the command "setenv ide sii" (well the sii part I mean) going to be supported in the new UBOOT that comes with the OS4 prerelease update?

Then I guess its just a matter of booting off the OS4 cd, running mediatoolbox, then selecting si680ide.device? Or something like that?

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Geri 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 30-Sep-2004 8:32:04
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Oct-2003
Posts: 2038
From: ST/AT

Quote:
Uncharted wrote:

AmigaOS 4 is all looking good, nothing negative you can say about that.

I fully agree. It was the reason why I bought the AmigaOne. And I think it's still a good decision.

Quote:
The hardware on the other hand is the opposite. I'm seriously losing confidence in Eyetech and MAI's ability to deliver a solid product, and then sell it properly.


I'm not losing confidence, but in my humble opinion, they should provide a fix for the motherboard. I will do it myself, if the fix is easy to do. But I don't want to buy a PCI UDMA controller card, even if it has a better performance, as my drives don't support UDMA133 at all. I want to use the free PCI slots for other cards.

@Eyetech: If the fix is easy to do, then please publish an instruction manual or something else.

Thanks!

Geri


_________________
A1SE: G3@600MHz, 2GB, 1GBit network card
A1XE: G4@933MHz, 2GB, refitted AC'97 codec
microA1: G3@800MHz, 1GB

- A1 Linux support -

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: Notes about my presentation at Alchimie 4, & about DMA
Posted on 30-Sep-2004 8:32:23
# ]



Quote:
Uncharted wrote:

AmigaOS 4 is all looking good, nothing negative you can say about that.

The hardware on the other hand is the opposite. I'm seriously losing confidence in Eyetech and MAI's ability to deliver a solid product, and then sell it properly.


Hi Uncharted and all,

I ALWAYS think this about the situation:

ibum and motoscum <<--links to stockmarket quote.


ibm $ 142,357,816,160
mot $ 041,557,096,190
Tot $ 183,914,912,350


Two corps worth $183 bil. couldn't be arsed to make a controller chip so that their CPUs could be used in desktop computers? And yet they want to beat intel's and AMD's CPU numbers and sales values?????? (moto, just the other day announced SEVEN new CPU's, but NO controller chip!!!)

They're letting the chips fall where they MAI?

Yep, made in the good ol' U.S. of A.


It's time to circle the wagons, boys.

How many test boards do you think Eyetech could have made, before producing a "working board" to mass produce (the first 1000, or whatever amount they made)?

It comes down to, THIS, what we have, or NO AMIGA at all!

Hey, I bought one of the developer boards so that you could have a revised one, does that make your day a little better?

AND REMEMBER:

Maybe, when Eyetech sells its' 500,000th motherboard, they'll remember us and might offer THE ONLY approx. first 1000 users a really big discount on the first G5 motherboards that come out!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!



You guys missed the MOST IMPORTANT PART!!!!

Quote:
sg2 wrote:

At the end, I had many fair questions to which I answered; my feeling is that the audience really appreciated the effort behind what I shown, and was conscious that we are not far away from a releasable 4.0.





AmigaOne! AOS4.0! Another bump in the road on one hell of a trip!!!!!

 
     Report this post  

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle