Ok for some constructive critisism for a potentially interested customer. (bought the SDK browser, excellent tool).

The webpage sort of gives me the impression of someone trying to sell refigerators that runs without electricity to eskimoes. Big fonts, hard to get an overview of the contents, over usage of CAPITAL letters, exclamation marks, parantesises and a lot of sales talk.

Perhaps you should consider adding a menu for easy navigation. Tone down a bit on the font sizes and sales talk. Developers are interested in details and functionality so try to focus on that. Make the site something developers want to come back to rather than feel like they have been shouted at by a overly talkative salesman.

I realize that the web page isn't the focus of your efforts, but it is still the contact surface to the developers that might be interested in your products. Without the sdk browser demo I would have been scared away by the current web pages and wouldn't have bought a license for it.

(Not trying to flame you here)

I'm sure there's plenty of people in the community that could set up a toned down, pleasant and to the point web site for you. If the server runs php I could even set up some basic scripts for you to build upon, however when it comes to design (colors and such) I am like most developers not as adept ;)

/Björn

@Orgin:
I shall simply quote your post. Had the very same impression and I would give the very same advices.

_________________
God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

I'd agree with the website, but the idea behind it sounds very interesting

_________________
Dark Lord Design Wicked Solutions For Damned Problems

Tell me if I'm right:
this is not the SDK browser, this is about something new: an IDE. It's not done yet and you want people to buy it (well subscribe to it).

_________________
Philippe 'Elwood' Ferrucci
Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation

I'm afraid I have to agree with the other guys... let's see if we can all suggest some concrete ways of improving the website.

1. When I go to any site that sells software, I usually look for screenshots to get a gut feel for the program being sold. If there were any screenshots in your site, they're very hard to find (I couldn't!). This is especially important in the amiga marketplace, where we've been exposed to so much vapour that it's pretty hard to believe anything without some proof.
2. You are essentially selling information ("how to code for the amiga"), but you're being very vague about it. How do I know that what I'd be buying from you I won't get free in the next OS4 SDK release? this is what my bus.sci friends call "value add", it's the reason why evian makes millions when all I have to do is open my tap to get basically the same thing. Spell out all the cool stuff that's included in the $10 subscription, and tell me why I'd have to be insane not to send you my cash!
3. The site looks like it was put together by the KMOS web designer

I hope I'm not coming across like an arrogant git, I'm just hoping to contribute a bit of constructive criticism

But.....and.....what???

Errr....

So let me get this straight....
You're offerring us your dev environment.......(which consists of a dir structure)
and sooner or later there'll be something cool added to it......
but we should pay now before the cool stuff is there.....
and we don't know what the cool stuff is.......

Ok. Maybe setting the dev environment up is tricky.....
but.... I'm sure someone in a forum somewhere could help me figure it out...
Is there anything there that actually makes this easier than going into a forum and asking?
Is there code already in place to help me make the apps faster?
Is there some sort of toolkit? And if so what does it do?
How exactly is this helpful for noobs?
Are there going to be tutorials above and beyond the OS4 SDK?

What languages are supported? Compilers?
Is it AmigaOS4 specific?

Are there any licensing issues we need to know about?
Like, if I unsubscribe can I still use your toolkit?
Am I under your thumb forever....and if so how hard?
Hmmm....I wouldn't pay MS for this stuff so why should I pay you?

I dunno....you're not allaying my fears....
I'd sooner go and figure it out myself.

What's the value add?

You're not that guy that was on a month ago looking for ideas are you?

Ok. Going back to my happy place now.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

I also agree that the site looks unprofessional, it reminds me of one of those homepages sites you see on angelfire.

I'm guessing the site html was hand coded, all the site needs is a header with a nice logo and a left column for site navigation, I can put together a design and an html template for the site for a small fee.

btw, love your Amiga Lab http://bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com/amigalab.html

Last edited by DaveyD on 05-Apr-2005 at 08:42 AM.

_________________
Join the Amigaworld.net Supporters Scheme and get your Supporter Tag

an IDE.... HURRAAAAAAAAAAY

Rock on bitByBit!

_________________
See my blog and collection website! . https://www.blog.amigaguru.com

Just an example on how to make the navigation a bit more less confused:

http://orgin.org/bitbybit/index.php

(ignore the coloring etc, that's not the point of the example. It would need the touch of someone like DaveyD, with a style sheet, graphical logo and a suitable color set)

/Björn

I have to second others opinions here:
if your new tool will be of the same good quality of the SDK Browser, then it seems you'll have a useful and needed tool... but it's poorly presented, so nobody will ever know that!

We have a lot of talented people here, you should ask for some help (maybe giving in return some of your apps).

Btw, keep up with the good work!

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

orgin: that looks nice and if you want to help (and have the time), send jamie a mail.

just to tell...so far this thread seems negative to a Full blown IDE solution for os4 , i think you guys should read the news item and then comment

_________________
See my blog and collection website! . https://www.blog.amigaguru.com

@BigBentheAussie

Quote:

Hmmm....I wouldn't pay MS for this stuff so why should I pay you?

Actually, i'd pay MS for this stuff (in fact, already do), 'cause developers tools, documentation and support is one of the few good things comin' from them, IMHO

If i'm not mistaken, what you will have with the "templates" is something similar of when you start a new project within Visual Studio or Delphi IDE, where you can choose between some prebuild skeletons, e.g. win32 app, nt service, web service, winforms app and so on.
If it'll be like this, it could become a much needed tool for the noobs (and not only for the noobs).

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

It's nice to see some serious AmigaOS 4 developer help. Thanks Jamie.

@Orgin

Sorry about the font size, these weary eyes were just trying to get all the correct information together.

Although I've been programming for better than [ergh] 25 years this is the first web site I have had to build. It WILL get better really

There. How's that?

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

subsrcibed now..and i got the template thingy ...wooooooeeeeee

_________________
See my blog and collection website! . https://www.blog.amigaguru.com

jamie:how about that donation button? ..

_________________
See my blog and collection website! . https://www.blog.amigaguru.com

@JamieKrueger

Okey. You are welcome to use the php scripts behind this page should you wish to do so:

http://orgin.org/bitbybit/index.php

you can download a tar file here:

http://orgin.org/bitbybit/bitbybit.tar

(look here if you can't navigate the pages after installing them on your server:
http://uk.php.net/register_globals The pages can easely be adapted to not require
register_globals though)

/Björn

OMG Amiga Lab is impressive :-O

@JamieKrueger
I also think that http://orgin.org/bitbybit/index.php looks more professionals even if it is very simple.

_________________
ikir

Quote:

Tell me if I'm right:this is not the SDK browser, this is about something new: an IDE. It's not done yet and you want people to buy it (well subscribe to it).

That is correct, this is something new.

The Advanced Visual Developer is a complete development cycle centric
concept. It starts as a full IDE and goes on to add support for every aspect
from GUI design to version control (CVS etc) to packaging and distrubution.

This is a system I have been kicking around for better than a decade, way
before I even saw an "IDE" or MSVC++ or Visual Basic, etc. I, like most of
you, was programming in assembly, on an Amiga, doing EVERYTHING by
hand. Having a blast but knowing there could be a better way to get programs
written faster without sacrificing speed, performance or elegance of design.

Think maybe AMOS and AmigaVision meet the best IDE you have ever seen
and add a modern focus on what it really takes to get the job done, from concept
to distribution.

Don't get me wrong, this is no pipe dream or pie in the sky idea.
Innovative yes, but rooted heavily in currently available technolgy.
100% doable.

It will take time, and money. What I have in mind for the complete suite will
likely take a year or two to reach my expectations. However, tons of useful
pieces will be available sooner as this system is constructed. The SDK Browser
is just the first spin off of the main body of work, one I am not finished with
yet. It should be noted however that the SDK Browser (or similar piece of
technology) will become part of what the subscribers will be receiving.

Jamie

_________________
Jamie Krueger
BITbyBIT Software Group LLC
jamie@bitbybitsoftwaregroup.com
PLEASE NOTE: I only speak for myself and my company,
and am not a spokesperson for Amiga Inc.

Constructive criticism, with a little swearing to add meat;

The website sucks ####, and I still have no ####ing idea what $10 a month is paying for despite the rambling press release and 30pt fonts.

Does that give you any impression of what needs to be changed so that you'll ever get a subscription? :)

Of course if it's worth it, it's worth it, but one really has to SELL and not just TALK in this world.

Neko