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Amigaworld.net News   Amigaworld.net News : New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development Projects
   posted by wegster on 29-Nov-2006 1:56:33 (4458 reads)
Developer Project Forum: Purpose and Rules

What IS the Developer Project Forum?

Good question. This forum addition has been discussed for some time, involving several members of Staff, the community, and developers of both hardware and software projects. As AW has grown larger over time, numerous threads have repeated themselves time and again, and while containing very useful or helpful information, it's not always easy for either the users or a project participant to find, so information is often repeated, or never seen by those who need it.

This new forum is meant to be an 'official' forum for AmigaOS and related projects- BOTH hardware and software, to allow them to make official announcements on their projects, as well as field questions from users, in a single easy to find location.


This is of advantage to both the community AND the developers/project members. We see this as a place for users to interact with the developers and companies involved in bringing their project to us, and for the companies to solicit feedback if desired, or to more easily communicate with the userbase without repeating themselves time and again, in dozens of different threads. Since it seems often that people manage to confuse the facts about different projects, this is essentially an information repository for both the users and project members to take advantage of, and allowing people to more easily find facts about projects, rather than speculation and/or misleading information.

There are some different rules regarding this forum, to keep information easily available, and to the point of this forum. Only project developers or spokespersons may start threads in this forum. All other threads will be moved immediately. One or two people per project are considered to be the 'spokesperson(s)' for a project, and simply act as the 'liaisons' to the public/AW users for the project. Exceptions can be made to this limit on a project by project basis.

Participation from developers is entirely voluntary, but is limited to one thread per project in this forum. They can update as often or as infrequently as they wish, and users can ask questions about each project in it's respective thread, but only a project developer can start a thread for his or her/their project. Existing threads on projects in AmigaOS Software or Hardware sections will remain as they are; it is only for a project member to decide if they want to start and 'official' project thread or not.

For all intents and purposes, this is a projects 'home' of sorts, and people will need to respect that boundary. This is NOT free for all, but a chance for project teams to more easily interact with users, and vice versa. Project questions by users are welcome, but ALL off-topic posts, flames, or new posts in this forum not by a project member will be deleted, and may be dealt with harshly.


What is a Suitable Project?
Nearly anything, that is under development now, or already available, as a hardware or software project. It is at the Staffs discretion if a project is basically suitable or not, but this is mainly meant to keep the forum contents to a reasonable number of project threads, which are expected to be completed at some point, or is of particular interest to the community. We welcome the members of the SAM Team, Troika, ACK, or yes, Genesi, to feel free to post their project thread in here, as well as any software projects, to better consolidate facts about their projects in a single place. This is NOT meant for them to stop participation elsewhere, but instead, to provide a single location for factual statements and information about their projects.

If for some reason, a new project thread is found unsuitable by Staff, it will not be deleted, but instead moved to a more appropriate forum.


What About AROS, MOS, or other non AmigaOS Projects?
Well, let's face it.. Sometimes it seems possible to work together, and at others, it doesn't. We welcome all potential AOS projects, whether they started on MOS, AROS, classic/68k or native OS4 projects, as long as the intent is to run on AmigaOS, including OS4. Projects like Sputnik, assuming Marcik wants to get feedback about a port, are certainly welcome, as are other projects looking to become cross-platform. Projects such as MuiCon, while it does make me drool a bit, are unlikely to ever be ported to OS4, so should continue to post their project information in a more appropriate place such as MorphZone, Aros-Exec, or they are also welcome to post to our Alt OS forum.


So, How Does It Work?
Let's say a projects members have been participating on AW for some time; whenever they notice a new thread where a user has an issue, have a minor announcement to make, or a need for beta-testers. They decide they'd like to create a project thread in the Developer Project Forum, so they can give a full description of their project in a single location, and answer user questions, without having to search through a mass of threads.

The project member would create a new thread in the forum, in any format they choose, as long as the following are covered:
Topic: Project Name
Contents:
- Short or detailed description of the project.
- What platforms the project is meant for if applicable?
- Project home page if any
- Project contact information (email, or if preferred, this forum thread).
- Primary reason for creating project thread- for announcements, to solicit user feedback, to ask for beta-testers, whatever. (optional, and can certainly change over time.)
- Please try to limit speculation and non-factual content as possible. This is the place to really give information, specs, etc on your project, so is more an information repository than a means of advertising means or blog. Feel free to ask any questions of users, but bear in mind, it may be in your best interest to consolidate your actual project info into the topmost project post for the sake of clarity, from time to time.

We ask both the community of AW users, as well as participants from different AmigaOS (or potential) projects, to give it a try. We hope to eliminate much of the speculation and mis-information about different projects, to ease developers frustration with either not seeing a thread concerning their project and/or having to repeat themselves, but in the end, it's up to you, if this becomes a worthwhile addition to AW or not.

We ask that you limit any questions about the forum purpose and specifics to this News item or the sticky thread in the new forum, and welcome any project members to start their project threads at their convenience.

Developers (hardware and software), post your projects!
Developer Project Forum
    

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PosterThread
tomazkid 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 2:00:27
#1 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

Nice work Wegster


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wegster 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 2:32:02
#2 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

Something similar was planned for a non-competing site I'd been working on for some time. This time through, many community members actually pushed this, I just nagged Davey and worded it all together. It's up to the project owners to decide if it will be of use to them and us.

They can, of course, include donation links in the Project threads...considering a $40 USD donation to the first project posted for a currently available software project...hmm. (although it will have to be after Dec 1st, I'm broke! %-( )


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IonMane 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 3:39:03
#3 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 18-Apr-2003
Posts: 550
From: Adelaide Australia.

Good idea, something that of the kind that has been needed for some time.
May also help in reducing "reinventing of the wheel" a bit and may encourage collaboration.
Will these projects threads show up on the front page "recent discussions"?

Last edited by IonMane on 29-Nov-2006 at 03:40 AM.


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tomazkid 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 3:41:42
#4 ]
Team Member
Joined: 31-Jul-2003
Posts: 11694
From: Kristianstad, Sweden

Seems we have a winner

Jahc!


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wegster 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 3:55:19
#5 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

Yep. Wave that cash, and see who comes out

S'ok, I've made several wookiechat donations in the past, but was due for another, anyways

(Jahc was the first project posted, with WookieChat)


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wegster 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 3:57:26
#6 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@ionMane
Yes, hopefully when people might want to 'debate' on who said what, there will be an official project thread to refer to for 'the facts' as stated by the project developers and/or company, in a single location.

The threads _will_ show up in 'recent topics' and probably should, IMO, as if unlike some other threads, their topics should be self-evident with the project name in it, so people can easily see when an update may have been made..


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wegster 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 7:20:40
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

Ahh, seems we're in need of a new icon, if anyone is feeling particularly motivated?


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AmigaBlitter 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 8:19:46
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 26-Sep-2005
Posts: 3403
From: Unknown

This is a very good initiative.


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Zontrox 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 8:36:20
#9 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2005
Posts: 684
From: Matrix Collective

@wegster

Nice ideia wegster.
I might even participate on this forum.
I have a few ideias and desires that i have to discuss with the rest of the 'gang'.


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adiaux 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 9:59:18
#10 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

I like this idea!

Hmm, another idea - how about giving the "project owners" an exclusive right to moderate their own project threads? Is it technically possible? What would the pros/cons be (note, as many probably know, I am not a big enthusiast of moderation myself)?

Also, some threads will become very long after some time (look at the mini-mig thread at amiga.org for example), but at least the information will be collected in one place and in chronologic order.

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saimo 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 10:04:29
#11 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2215
From: Unknown

Great idea

BTW: is it possible to move this thread of mine to the new forum?

saimo

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wegster 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 10:21:42
#12 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

Quote:
Hmm, another idea - how about giving the "project owners" an exclusive right to moderate their own project threads? Is it technically possible? What would the pros/cons be (note, as many probably know, I am not a big enthusiast of moderation myself)?


That was actually the original plan on a site I'd been working on for some time, to allow 'project owners' to basically run everything within their project, and share announcements and relevant links/info, etc with AW (and elsewhere), and keep the 'forum posts' at sites, so as to not 'compete' in any way with existing sites. That project is currently mostly done, but basically 'on hold' due to RL, as well as some server issues at the moment, so will be adapted to not 'compete' with this project forum, but hopefully to enhance it and provide other needed things for projects and devs.

Unfortunately, within the framework of xoops (let alone the ancient version we run at AW currently), it's not easy to accomplish the above, although ideal. The permissions system with respect to 'moderators' is basically on a per forum basis, with no provisions for per thread. We may be able to put together something to allow this (moderator list per thread) within only the projects forum. One issue there is that some developers or project members may not _want_ to moderate their project threads, and the goal here is ease of givning/receiving information, not to make them into micro-managers Of course, some/most may turn out to _want_ to be able to do this, and we may yet look into this as an option. Or as another option, they may want rights to do so, but not deal with the daily issues of removing off-topic posts into their project threads, so have Staff do that, but otherwise handle their own thread.

xoops has another 'nicety' to it currently. If you delete a post in the middle of a thread, it wants to/will delete all 'child' posts as well, making it difficult to remove something from the middle. This is pretty fubar, but should be able to be worked around, as it's basically a borked linked list of sorts.

The pros in 'self-moderation' of projects:
- No one peeing in their sandbox. No off-topic, no trolling, at their discretion.
- less AW Staff required interaction. We know ya love us and all, but.. Seriously, the less 'excessive' interaction here, would be better. Some projects may want any and all comments, while others may be wanting only specific types of posts, so we'd like for _them_ to be able to decide for themselves, and/or be able to clean up after for example, a long set of posts on bugs, that were subsequently fixed, so can remove them ans simply add a single summary post in covering those.

cons:
- more time spent on 'housekeeping' by project owners.
- have to make the call on off-topic, trolling, etc, and they may prefer to have users dislike AW Staff instead
- some fairly significant code rework of xoops.

That's off the top of my head anyways, suggestions and comments or additions are certainly welcome...we pretty much expect this to evolve a bit over time, as well as clarifying how things _should_ work, as we see additional projects come onboard.

Quote:
Also, some threads will become very long after some time (look at the mini-mig thread at amiga.org for example), but at least the information will be collected in one place and in chronologic order.


Yep. That will certainly force the need to rewrite the thread editing/deletion code. Although in this case, compared to the *huge* minimig thread, much of the minimig thread is off-topic, people posting, 'I love you' or "I don't believe you" type posts, which isn't the goal here as much as to provide a single location for project owners to post factual info, and to help users as they have problems, or report bugs, etc. Of course, some project owners may prefer amore 'freeform' format, which is OK _IF_ they ask for it, but will require more 'hosekeeping' over time.


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wegster 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 10:36:33
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@zontrox
Quote:
I might even participate on this forum.

Please do. Any AmigaOS or potential AmigaOS projects are welcome.


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wegster 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 10:39:39
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@saimo
Quote:
BTW: is it possible to move this thread of mine to the new forum?

Yes. Please edit the first post topic to include the project name, and in your case, 'help wanted' or similar, eg, "uniVersus- cross platform game needs gfx help" and we'll move it. Actually, will move now, but please update summary and topic as you're able.

PS - good luck on the project, I looked at the web site, and looks like a lot of work has gone into it!


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saimo 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 10:58:25
#15 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Mar-2003
Posts: 2215
From: Unknown

@wegster

Quote:
Yes. Please edit the first post topic to include the project name, and in your case, 'help wanted' or similar, eg, "uniVersus- cross platform game needs gfx help" and we'll move it. Actually, will move now, but please update summary and topic as you're able.

Thanks. Done. I hope it's OK now.

Quote:
PS - good luck on the project, I looked at the web site, and looks like a lot of work has gone into it!

Started back in December 2004... and I definitely sweated a lot on it! The demo will give you a better idea
(Sorry for the OT.)

saimo

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Bean 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 11:45:13
#16 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2003
Posts: 1225
From: U.K.

What a great idea!

I'll give it a go.

Edit - Contributed.

Any chance that when you edit the initial post you dont get the edited messages
appearing? Otherwise as it is updated it will become full of them!

Perhaps just a single last updated line would be a good idea? (If possible)

Cheers,
Bean.

Last edited by Bean on 29-Nov-2006 at 12:25 PM.


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adiaux 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 15:42:30
#17 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Jun-2006
Posts: 1249
From: Unknown

@ wegster

Quote:
Unfortunately, within the framework of xoops (let alone the ancient version we run at AW currently), it's not easy to accomplish the above, although ideal. The permissions system with respect to 'moderators' is basically on a per forum basis, with no provisions for per thread.


Hmm, maybe a central "Developer Project Forum" *forum category*, and under that, one forum for each project, coupled with one "user category" for each project as well? That way, admin rights could be set quite easily for each project (also user rights (local "ban" possibilities )), and each project could have more than one thread (sometimes one single subject may not be enough, when discussions gets forked?), its own little icon on the front page, etc.

The result would be a whole lot of forums, but if the database can handle it, then it would more be about dealing with the forum listings in a clever way.

But maybe things shouldn't be more complicated than they already are? I like the thought of the forum as it is, and I am only brainstorming here anyway!

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SKOLMAN_MWS 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 17:11:45
#18 ]
Member
Joined: 19-May-2006
Posts: 77
From: Poland

first OS4 & MUI4 port on 68k/ColdFire


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wegster 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 18:01:51
#19 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Nov-2004
Posts: 8554
From: RTP, NC USA

@TMHG
Quote:
Hmm, maybe a central "Developer Project Forum" *forum category*, and under that, one forum for each project, coupled with one "user category" for each project as well? That way, admin rights could be set quite easily for each project (also user rights (local "ban" possibilities )), and each project could have more than one thread (sometimes one single subject may not be enough, when discussions gets forked?), its own little icon on the front page, etc.


Thought about doing that one as well, but right now that would mean shortly the main page with the categories and forum listings would scroll endlessly soon enough (or, we hope projects will use it, making that happen, anyways ) We could 'hide' the Project Forum's sub-forums with a bit of work, while new project threads and updates will still show in recent threads/topic lists, etc, but it seems better off, at least at first glance, to fix the moderator and editing issues to allow for easier cleanup by either Staff or a project owner.

We may change the 'rules' a bit as we go along and figure out what's easiest/best for people. One option might be for 2 or so project threads, one for 'just the facts, maam' and a second for QnA/help etc. Some projects may also be large enough that they contain several components, that warrant their own project thread for each component..

Quote:
But maybe things shouldn't be more complicated than they already are? I like the thought of the forum as it is, and I am only brainstorming here anyway!


s'ok, we fully expect to have to make some 'adjustments' along the way, so the feedback is useful..it's by no means a 'perfect solution' as it is, but it should be useful 'as is' for now, and with some time, hopefully we'll manage to improve on the annoynaces (eg, long threads with bugs that have been fixed, etc).


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yoodoo2 
Re: New AW forum for AmigaOS and Multi-Platform Development
Posted on 29-Nov-2006 20:32:14
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Aug-2003
Posts: 1323
From: Stourbridge, UK

Quote:
as long as the intent is to run on AmigaOS, including OS4


With that in mind, wouldn't the new forum be better placed under the "Next Gen" section?

It's quite a long way down the list of fora otherwise, and could easily be overlooked, especially by newcomers when new hardware does eventually arrive.


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