Quote:

if MOS 2.x looks anything like this default then too bad I say.

I find senseless default trasparency on OS4 windows, and I change them to have trasparency only when I drag a window...

Quote:

There is, see above. 1.4.x had 3.9 MUI just like OS4, in the first place (but had some features the OS4 version didn't, like various advanced skinning facilities). And there were "unofficial" betas of MUI4 for 1.4.5. And there are tons of stuff which already uses MUI4 features under MorphOS, since years. For example, Ambient. And then there was Sputnik, or recently OWB. These only run on 1.4.5 with the unofficial MUI4 betas. But other smaller apps also use various new things.

I hope all MorphOS1.4.x users have just updated to MUI4 beta because MUI3.9 of MorphOS1.4.x is very bugged when you develop an application with d&d+many notification chains+context menus.

I think it would be almost impossible for OS4 to beat MOS at this point. Not because MOS has better programmers (), but because it has been longer in development, has seen more optimization rounds, has had more exposure to real userbase.

What these results really tell us, IMO, is that MOS people have put together a solid product, and that AOS development is on good track.

Last edited by n-ary on 13-Aug-2009 at 09:32 PM.

@n-ray
MorphOS ~10 years.
OS4 ~8 years

Do you really believe 20% less development time alone can make such a big difference ??

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

Well, development time is just part of it. Also consider the time OS4/MOS have been available for users.

With dev. teams being as small as they are, end user exposure makes a huge difference (as neither of the teams have an army of people running regression and performance tests on the background).

Edit: it could very well be that MOS has something done fundamentally better, but these results are not enough to draw that conclusion, IMO.

Last edited by n-ary on 13-Aug-2009 at 09:54 PM.

I work as programmer and can tell you that 20% DOES matter, big time. Think of it: i have a 5 months project; believe me that 1 month extra would really improve what we do now.

And not just that, but MOS programmers were listening to people (on many shows), never had any pressure to finish in certain time (no promises-no deadline), BBRV payed them money, and not only to them, but also sponsoring hardware (even pegasos for Serbia linux center!?! ) and $1000 to morphzone and many bounties. All the needed stuff for programmer is there.

Programmers, like me, need peace, silence and clear head. They can't work if they have lawsuit above head, angry mob asking how long 'two more weeks' actually last, work other stuff because OS4 doesn't give money etc etc...

Also, they lost precious time for remake or Reaction which is total disaster solution. Instead of using already done, and WAAAY better MUI, they stick to obsolete stuff and loose time. Many programmers here (and on intuitionbase) were talking how much easier is to work under MUI, so it is not just me. And from user experience.... well, you all know the answer....
And no, red trolls, MUI is NOT slow, not was even on my a1230/50.

If there are people who believe in OS4 actually become better than MOS, than few things should be done:
MONEY: either by bounties or some company that would buy Hyperion. Please, forget the lawsuit ATM, let's pretend that it doesn't exist, ok?
MUI: enough said
AMBIENT or Magellan instead of useless Workbench. Ambient is Open Source or buy source code of Magellan.
BEING NORMAL: what was the point of making some parts of OS4 in a way that prevents os4emu working?!? Loosing time on what....? This is just one more stupid decision which costs lot and gains nothing. Don't forget that MOS team can easily make identical functions, fully legal (like wine) and that Hyperion lost time for nothing.
Demo version: Who you buy a car or t-shirt that you have never seen before? I wouldn't.

_________________
May the force be with you...

@Srbin

Quote:

BBRV payed them money

And the MorphOS team lost many original members because BBRV didn't pay their salaries all the time.

Quote:

Instead of using already done, and WAAAY better MUI

Yes you can save a lot of time using other peoples existing work like 50% (at least) of MorphOS is AROS code. Have the MorphOS team helped AROS community porting MUI4 to AROS, for example. AFAIK nope.

Quote:

prevents os4emu working

Do you really believe os4emu was ever meant to become anything serious ? One guy (Sintonen) made it originally to run one single and very simple small command line tool. Have you seen an interview of Itix where he says they used it only to annoy AmigaOS4 users and nothing else. If the authors of it can't make it to work then it's their lack of programming skills. Don't blame anybody else who's not involved in it in any way if the authors can't make it to work properly.

If you're an honest person you should delete your post to prevent any possible bigger war.

Oh, and don't believe every joke as a truth.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

Quote:

And the MorphOS team lost many original members because BBRV didn't pay their salaries all the time.

Yeah yeah yeah.... Heard that many time from red trolls, even read the site programmers left to the community. As far as i recall, BBRV later payed them their money and i believe that for 2 reasons:
1. BBRV claimed they payed (ok, shame for them for being late) and we never heard a word from those programmers again. So, it must be true, they would still be yelling, at least, i would or sue them for earning money on my effort.
2. If you think that BBRV didn't pay them, do you really believe that anyone else would work in MOS team? Think of yourself; you heard that boss doesn't pay wages, but you still go to work for him?!?

No logic man, no logic.

About os4Emu; i don't think that creators of AmiTradeCenter, AmiNetRadio, lucy etc... miss programming skills. Why do you?
Please, check http://amigazeux.net/os4emu/feat.php

_________________
May the force be with you...

Quote:

Have the MorphOS team helped AROS community porting MUI4 to AROS, for example. AFAIK nope.

Aros is open source. MUI is not, it is totally up to Stefan Stuntz, not mos team.

Aros has Zune, but it still lack a lot of functionally from MUI. I would really like if Stefan would recompile MUI for Aros.

_________________
May the force be with you...

Quote:

BEING NORMAL: what was the point of making some parts of OS4 in a way that prevents os4emu working?!? Loosing time on what....? This is just one more stupid decision which costs lot and gains nothing. Don't forget that MOS team can easily make identical functions, fully legal (like wine) and that Hyperion lost time for nothing.

Er... Pardon? Where did you get that one from?

_________________

Quote:

Do you really believe os4emu was ever meant to become anything serious ? One guy (Sintonen) made it originally to run one single and very simple small command line tool. Have you seen an interview of Itix where he says they used it only to annoy AmigaOS4 users and nothing else. If the authors of it can't make it to work then it's their lack of programming skills. Don't blame anybody else who's not involved in it in any way if the authors can't make it to work properly.

I don't know where he got that from. OS4Emu does work rather well and many major applications work, including dvPlayer. On the other hand, yes, it was never really meant as a serious project.

Quote:

If you're an honest person you should delete your post to prevent any possible bigger war. Oh, and don't believe every joke as a truth.

To be honest, I think that you should have learnt by now to ignore anything srbin says as trolling...

_________________

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=25692&forum=14&start=80&viewmode=flat&order=0#433999

and

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=25692&forum=14&start=80&viewmode=flat&order=0#434030

I read that also on morphzone but their search engine is bad.

_________________
May the force be with you...

@srbin

Either stop being confrontational and tone it down or stop posting. Your choice. There's tons of ways to express what you are saying and make a nice technical or even political discussion and you seem to be either unable or unwilling to use any that won't annoy the people your arguments are targetting. That is called trolling. Yes, this is a warning, you are obviously trolling here and that is not tolerated.

_________________

There is exactly one program I'm aware of that had "anti-MorphOS" code or at least was publicised to have it and that code was primitive and plainly didn't work anyway.

_________________

Quote:

Either stop being confrontational and tone it down or stop posting

Ok, my mistake (it is human to mistake). I can hardly see any confrontational note, might be of language differences or something other.

Yes, i admit i am troll, but never started first. Never.

ps.
except ones when day after OS4 appeared, i made a topic 'OS4 on x86 announced'.

Coudn't resist after so many topics if os4 would appear on x86.

_________________
May the force be with you...

@Tomppeli
Quote:

Yes you can save a lot of time using other peoples existing work like 50% (at least) of MorphOS is AROS code.

And where did you get number ??

It's about as correct if I said:
OS4 is based on OS3.x and all they had to do is to flick some compiler-switches to get a PPC-version ...... oh wait someone else allready said that

Somewhere on the net (can't find it atm) there was a list of what in MorphOS (the early versions) was created by whom and based on what. AFAIR AROS only played a role in intuition and dos, and even those needed heavy reworking to get them into an usable state.

The OS3.x sources should have been atleast as usefull as AROS (back than).

_________________
- We don't need good ideas, we haven't run out on bad ones yet
- blame Canada

@ tomppeli
Quote:

Yes you can save a lot of time using other peoples existing work like 50% (at least) of MorphOS is AROS code.

Any evidence to backup this claim?

_________________
My programs: via.bckrs.de
MorphOS user since V0.4 (2001)

@Zylesea

Since when do we need evidence for claims???
So many statements from either side being totally wrong so who cares anymore..

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

Quote:

Do you really believe os4emu was ever meant to become anything serious ? One guy (Sintonen) made it originally to run one single and very simple small command line tool.

It's (at least mostly) done by itix, I don't know if Sintonen (also known as "Piru") had any part in it.

And regarding anti-os4emu code in newer OS4 programs, according to changelog of os4emu, it no longer works as supposed.

@Srbin

You know that some of your earlier posts do sound angry and confrontal?
But as you say it might be the language barrier..

Anyway.. The simple reason why OS4 aren't using MUI or CyberGfx is ownership/control.
Most people should understand this reason when making a closed source OS..
Never use closed source parts that you haven't control over, however good they may be.

Personally I'm not that impressed with MUI 3.9 anymore.. I loved MUI back in the day but
I had too many small things that did irritate me when I was using MUI apps..
I know MUI4 is way way WAY better but it will probably never be made available for any
other OS than MorphOS. Not in the near future anyway, I guess.

Not comparing MUI to ReAction or whatever.. But I simply love the subtle but yet great update
of the GUI look for OS4.0 (not liking OS4.1 as much). Clean, clutter free, good color choices.
And I really like the style used by OS4.0.
IMO a GUI should not look like a gfx demo, it should be usable for other things other than
trying to impress.

When I was younger I thought the more you could change the GUI yourself the better..
Today I'm more of a theme guy. A complete GUI change, professionally done that's both
good looking and useful, is a better way than letting users change every aspect of
the GUI themselves, IMO.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!