Click Here
home features news forums classifieds faqs links search
6034 members 
Amiga Q&A /  Free for All /  Emulation /  Gaming / (Latest Posts)
Login

Nickname

Password

Lost Password?

Don't have an account yet?
Register now!

Support Amigaworld.net
Your support is needed and is appreciated as Amigaworld.net is primarily dependent upon the support of its users.
Donate

Menu
Main sections
Home
Features
News
Forums
Classifieds
Links
Downloads
Extras
OS4 Zone
IRC Network
AmigaWorld Radio
Newsfeed
Top Members
Amiga Dealers
Information
About Us
FAQs
Advertise
Polls
Terms of Service
Search

IRC Channel
Server: irc.amigaworld.net
Ports: 1024,5555, 6665-6669
SSL port: 6697
Channel: #Amigaworld
Channel Policy and Guidelines

Who's Online
77 crawler(s) on-line.
 18 guest(s) on-line.
 1 member(s) on-line.


 Karlos

You are an anonymous user.
Register Now!
 Karlos:  17 secs ago
 Tuxedo:  18 mins ago
 BigD:  22 mins ago
 DiscreetFX:  28 mins ago
 matthey:  48 mins ago
 saimo:  54 mins ago
 billt:  1 hr ago
 cdimauro:  1 hr 10 mins ago
 bison:  1 hr 18 mins ago
 number6:  1 hr 26 mins ago

Software News   Software News : Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
   posted by RuDeE on 9-Jun-2010 15:29:19 (16247 reads)
From Amigabounty.net:

Quote:

We have to apologize for the long absence. Workload, personal issues and other things slowed down development considerably.

However, we're finally able to make the first binary release of Timberwolf. This is going to be an Alpha version, meaning it will be prone to crashing and misbehavior, it will be slow, and not all functionality is implemented yet.

Future plans include an update to the latest baseline source code of Firefox (3.7 beta), an Amiga-specific theme, as well as a major rewrite of the rendering code. The current version of the rendering code (Did we mention it's an alpha release ?) has some conceptual problems that will lead to misrenderings, and massive overdraw (some webpages might be rendered 2 to 8 times, you may notice the window will turn black several times during page buildup).

Feedback is welcome; please point your browsers at http://amigans.net and visit the Timberwolf support forum.

Have fun with the first release.
    

STORYID: 5470
Related Links
· More about Software News
· News by RuDeE


Most read story about Software News
UBoot 2010.06.04 for Sam460ex available

Last news about Software News
Hollywood APK Compiler 4.0 released
Printer Friendly Page  Send this Story to a Friend

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 )

PosterThread
Rogue 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 13-Jun-2010 17:30:34
#101 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

Quote:
Anyway, I'm not being critical, just realistic


You're not.

"The Friedens" have not benefited from anything. If someone did, Hyperion has, but neither my brother nor myself. There have been only two open sourced projects we ever benefited from, namely the port of d2x (for which source code was available) and Jagged Alliance 2 (which no source code was available for). Even then, I have never demanded money for any of these, so your allegation is a slight bit far fetched.

For Timberwolf, as I pointed out on friedenhq.org already, the original intention was to donate the source code to Amizilla. Certain things however bothered me with that (like for example I didn't see why the initial port would only get 25% of the bounty, seeing that after ten years nobody ever got anywhere. Call me greedy, but I thought it deserved more). The next idea was to do it "just so" and release everything. Certain blue tinted attacks have however swayed our minds into making it closed source and OS 4 only. If you read e.g. the comments on amiga-news.de where it only took ten comments for the first to imply the video that drHirudo was running faster than recorded (fraud) and only 13 comments until it got downright personal again, I think it's our right to do this port for AmigaOS 4.x only.

Note also, that we have never ever received any query on whether we would reconsider. Nobody tried to argue. Just insult.

Having said that, I can only say I am happy that the release of Timberwolf was well-received by the community, and I hope we will be able to continue releasing Alphas (and betas eventually) down the line - we'll try to do this as often as possible, it will however depend on tangible progress; time is currently the limiting factor, since the X-1000 work is in full gear.


_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Jupp3 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 13-Jun-2010 19:40:25
#102 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

@Rogue
Quote:
For Timberwolf, as I pointed out on friedenhq.org already, the original intention was to donate the source code to Amizilla. Certain things however bothered me with that (like for example I didn't see why the initial port would only get 25% of the bounty,

Which is exactly why you could have done it for all platforms by yourself, and get 75% more. Also, if that bothered you so much, did you ever try re-negotiating the terms?

Quote:
seeing that after ten years nobody ever got anywhere.

First you give this sort of badmouthing to EVERYONE, who tried their best to get this huge task one (remember that back when the bounty started, Firefox didn't use Cairo yet, so a port was MUCH harder), and then complain about "Certain blue tinted attacks"?

Sure, we never got a fully (or even "as well as TimberWolf alpha") working version, but there most definitely was a version compiled for 68k somewhere in the early 2000's, by some russian team, iirc. Sure, it was totally useless, as it was impossible to bring up the GUI (it could basically give some responses to command line args, and that was about it), but in my opinion it was WAY beyond the "nothing" you (and others) seem to constantly imply. And this was with the "much harder to port" codebase too (before Firefox started to use Cairo)

Also you seem to forget the efforts put into Firefox port by afxgroup (thread started 11-Jul-2007) - is that also worth nothing?

Sure I understand your port is (already at this state) way superior to any Firefox port we have seen this far (but then again, your porting job is now way easier than a decade ago), but I strongly object to you claiming "nobody (else) ever got anywhere."

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
pavlor 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 13-Jun-2010 20:43:41
#103 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9343
From: Unknown

@Jupp3

Quote:
Sure I understand your port is (already at this state) way superior to any Firefox port we have seen this far (but then again, your porting job is now way easier than a decade ago), but I strongly object to you claiming "nobody (else) ever got anywhere."


Nice joke... where I can download any other (at least partially) working port of FF?


Frieden brothers are right in this regard. Why should they even bother with port to other OSs? They would like to have FF on OS4. If you want this browser on MorphOS, AROS or other OS, you can do the same: port it yourself.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Jupp3 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 13-Jun-2010 20:59:07
#104 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

Quote:
Nice joke... where I can download any other (at least partially) working port of FF?

Even if I did remember the server where the old 68k version was posted, it most likely wouldn't work anymore. Also, I probably no longer have the binary, at least it's not on the HD I currently have in my A1200 (seriously, it was rather huge program for that time, and it's been a decade... And it was practically useless)

I don't know if the version by afxgroup was ever released, but do you think he was lying about it?

Quote:
Frieden brothers are right in this regard. Why should they even bother with port to other OSs?

With open source in general, you don't need to bother what might be done with your code. Other people will use it in the way they want, which might or might not benefit you in any way (you could get code enhancements for platform you want to bother supporting) - but in this case it's clearly something different.

-EDIT-
And yes, I do know that Firefox license does allow partially closed source ports. But on the other hand, all new code is encouraged to be open source aswell.

Quote:
They would like to have FF on OS4. If you want this browser on MorphOS, AROS or other OS, you can do the same: port it yourself.

There's already a better browser ported: OWB

Can't see any reason to bother with Firefox. Porting it "just to show OS4 developers, that we can do it too" feels rather pointless considering I don't see anything that Firefox would add that OWB doesn't have, or could be made to support. Except for perhaps being a big name that many people recognize.

Last edited by Jupp3 on 13-Jun-2010 at 09:02 PM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Rogue 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 14-Jun-2010 1:00:10
#105 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

Quote:
Which is exactly why you could have done it for all platforms by yourself, and get 75% more


IF I had any knowledge about these other platforms, or cared about them.

Quote:
Also, if that bothered you so much, did you ever try re-negotiating the terms?


How? I would suppose that the terms were somewhat tied up, seeing how people that donated would have to agree to that

Quote:
First you give this sort of badmouthing to EVERYONE, who tried their best to get this huge task one (remember that back when the bounty started, Firefox didn't use Cairo yet, so a port was MUCH harder), and then complain about "Certain blue tinted attacks"?


I didn't badmouth anyone. I just stated facts. There is no Firefox port available, I remember seeing one binary for 68k that didn't work at all. Yes, the prerequisites changed, but that didn't happen just yesterday, Firefox uses Cairo for quite a while.

Quote:
Also you seem to forget the efforts put into Firefox port by afxgroup (thread started 11-Jul-2007) - is that also worth nothing?


FWIW, I know this port didn't do anything, and I even know why - because it used GTK and the GTK port does use some features that didn't work under AmigaOS. Besides he was using the NSPR port that my brother and me did.

Quote:
I strongly object to you claiming "nobody (else) ever got anywhere."


You can also strongly object to the sky being blue without actually making it true. If that were the case, we would have at least seen SOMETHING.

Quote:
Can't see any reason to bother with Firefox. Porting it "just to show OS4 developers, that we can do it too" feels rather pointless considering I don't see anything that Firefox would add that OWB doesn't have, or could be made to support. Except for perhaps being a big name that many people recognize.


Nice try. That's the BS that people usually quote... "XX is so much better, why bother"

Pathetic, just like your self-righteous indignation.


_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Jupp3 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 14-Jun-2010 7:33:59
#106 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

Quote:
Quote:
I strongly object to you claiming "nobody (else) ever got anywhere."


You can also strongly object to the sky being blue without actually making it true. If that were the case, we would have at least seen SOMETHING.

Well then that's obviously where our opinions differ. At least I definitely count "successfully compiled, but not really usable" as "something".

Oh, by the way, thanks for confirming the existence of the old 68k Firefox binary, I was already afraid I was the only one who still remembers it

Quote:
Quote:
Can't see any reason to bother with Firefox. Porting it "just to show OS4 developers, that we can do it too" feels rather pointless considering I don't see anything that Firefox would add that OWB doesn't have, or could be made to support. Except for perhaps being a big name that many people recognize.

Nice try. That's the BS that people usually quote... "XX is so much better, why bother"

Pathetic, just like your self-righteous indignation.

Well not any more BS than trying to claim that OWB based browser couldn't be better.

But still, I don't think it would make much sense for someone to port Firefox just to show you "look, we can also do this without your help!"

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 15-Jun-2010 12:27:16
#107 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

yeah yeah, FF is no better, that must be why it has much more support than OWB in about any conceivable way or form, bigger team developing it and why people complaint about this being an AmigaOS exclusive.
Firefox already has whatever OWB "could" implement, stupid arguments such as "we don't care for this or that", "we only implement what we think is cool", is just sour grape talk (I would avoid the embarrassment).
As for OWB being "faster" usual (Gekko VS Webkit argument) it just doesn't happen to be so on AmigaOS.


_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Jupp3 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 15-Jun-2010 14:40:29
#108 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

Quote:
yeah yeah, FF is no better, that must be why it has much more support than OWB in about any conceivable way or form, bigger team developing it

I wouldn't really call Webkit development team small. I shouldn't need to remind it's also used in major browsers such as Safari and Chrome, which of course are currently smaller than firefox in popularity, even if companies behind them (google & apple) are bigger. The fact that our OWB ports have OWB "above" webkit isn't that relevant. It's webkit that really counts.

Quote:
and why people complaint about this being an AmigaOS exclusive.

Firstly, it's not AmigaOS exclusive but available on most modern-ish platforms (except for this particular branch), if anyone developer feels childish enough to show "Look, we can have this native-looking OWB AND Firefox aswell!", he can start wasting his time right away.

Quote:
Firefox already has whatever OWB "could" implement

Oh, didn't know it had native MUI / Reaction GUI, somehow I had missed that. I apologize.

Quote:
stupid arguments such as "we don't care for this or that", "we only implement what we think is cool", is just sour grape talk (I would avoid the embarrassment).

I can't see why so many OS4 users try to push MorphOS developers to do their own Firefox port (to be justified to say "OWB is still nicer")

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 15-Jun-2010 15:26:21
#109 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

I don't have to remind you that Webkit is nothing more than an HTML renderer while Firefox is a whole platform.
Moreover, whatever the big Firefox team does we get the same in AmigaOS ((and there are already a godzillion things ready for it), while if Apple does something special on top of WebKit for its Safari browser you get zilch in OWB.

Last edited by DAX on 15-Jun-2010 at 03:28 PM.
Last edited by DAX on 15-Jun-2010 at 03:27 PM.


_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Jupp3 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 15-Jun-2010 16:28:04
#110 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Feb-2007
Posts: 1225
From: Unknown

Quote:
Moreover, whatever the big Firefox team does we get the same in AmigaOS

And in that case, someone either:
1)Adapts those changes for OWB or:
2)Ports Firefox

Don't know about OS4 version, but MorphOS version has support for f.ex. greasemonkey-like scripts. And porting Firefox isn't at all unrealistic target for a skilled developer, but I am happy to see the effort is currently put into OWB instead.

I like OWB, you like Firefox. It's as simple as that. I have no doubt that Timberwolf will likely be fully usable browser in the future (and I could "manage" with that), but I'll still prefer OWB with its nice MUI user interface

Call me old fashioned or whatever, but I do like the idea of having "our own browser" with native UI, especially when it doesn't otherwise restrict usage (due to incomplete support for latest html standards, as is with ibrowse, aweb etc.)

Last edited by Jupp3 on 16-Jun-2010 at 07:02 AM.

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
DAX 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 15-Jun-2010 16:39:25
#111 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

More power to you then, I'm not here to tell you what you should like (my comment was just to point out that AOS TW and other platforms FF are very related while developments of WebKit based browsers, such as Safari, are not necessarily related to OWB as they might add custom stuff on top of WebKit, which is just the chosen renderer, and OWB won't get that).
In my case FF is my main Windows browser where I use plug-ins customizations and the likes (I have 6 browsers installed mind you), and could not desire a better one for AmigaOS (it also brings XUL to the platform, we'll see what we get out of that too...).

Last edited by DAX on 15-Jun-2010 at 04:40 PM.


_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

 Status: Offline
Profile     Report this post  
Anonymous 
Re: Timberwolf Alpha 1 released
Posted on 16-Nov-2012 15:28:44
# ]



prozac eating disorder in East waterford PA 17021 Pennsylvania levitra prescriptions how to buy cialis in canada for a canadian in Albertson NY 11507 New York (Fishers Is) buy cialis brand what time of day should i take clomid in Danville NH 03819 New Hampshire what happens if i stop taking synthroid cheap no perscription generic viagra in Silver city SD 57702 South Dakota viagra for sale from online pharmacy purchase cipro online in Ashland KY 41102 Kentucky safest place to order viagra i need money quickly low interest loans info payday What is the safe place to purchase priligy in Charter oak IA 51439 Iowa? order priligy with amex purchase paxil with visa card in Solomons MD 20688 Maryland best way to purchase cialis i need a car loan with bad credit instant decison loan i need a loan of fast same day loans quick cash payday loan payday loan no fax strattera delivered from india in Boxboro MA 01719 Massachusetts Where to purchase generic priligy? buying viagra from canadian in Parkin AR 72373 Arkansas order now best price viagra cialis in deutschland bestellen in Davie FL 33326 Florida cialis online best prices 1 hour cash advances fast money today legal way to order aldara in Barnardsville NC 28709 North Carolina cipro retailers instant decission loans money i need it ditropan xl in Reseda CA 91335 California zoloft withdrawal cialis online schweiz in Snow OK 74567 Oklahoma buying cialis in canada cialis price in Hawks MI 49743 Michigan buy cialis online without a prescription nolvadex next day shipping in Oxford MI 48371 Michigan budget tadacip cheap fax loan no payday i need my money

 
     Report this post  

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 )

[ home ][ about us ][ privacy ] [ forums ][ classifieds ] [ links ][ news archive ] [ link to us ][ user account ]
Copyright (C) 2000 - 2019 Amigaworld.net.
Amigaworld.net was originally founded by David Doyle