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Software News   Software News : Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
   posted by ASiegel on 12-Nov-2013 19:15:47 (8311 reads)
The aim of the Odyssey Bounty Project is to license a current version of the full-featured Odyssey Web Browser and share it under an open source license so it can be fully ported to AmigaOS and AROS.



While the author of the Odyssey Web Browser has previously shared parts of his work entirely for free, which already improved the browser choices on these two platforms by a great deal, these existing ports of Odyssey use an outdated version of the Webkit browser engine and lack key functionality such as the capability to play HTML5 video.

For more information about the Odyssey Web Browser and the funding campaign, please visit:
www.power2people.org
    

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PosterThread
PR 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 15-Nov-2013 10:55:41
#41 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1939
From: Suomi-Finland

Donated to Amizilla.

What about giving this money forward or is it been drunk too many times allready?

Great thing tho. Just had a few afterthoughts about these donations and T-Shirts..

"This is new" , Everytime.... I'm Sorry but happily give the money to OWB from the Amizilla donation;)

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ASiegel 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 15-Nov-2013 11:39:57
#42 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 195
From: Unknown

@ PR

Actually, the AmiZilla project was cancelled. You can read the announcement here on AmigaWorld: AmiZilla Cancellation

Unfortunately, DiscreetFX has removed the AmiZilla page from their website in the mean time. This makes it impossible for donors to review how much money they had contributed back then. Some probably forgot they had paid anything.

For the sake of transparency, DiscreetFX should continue to provide public records of how much money has not been paid out yet and whose donation is still being kept.

As it is, people are left to speculate what happened to the remaining AmiZilla funds...

In any case, if you would like your donation to be moved, please contact DiscreetFX at www.discreetfx.com

EDIT: You can access a 2008 list of donors cached by the Wayback Machine:
Wayback Machine - AmiZilla List of Donors

Last edited by ASiegel on 15-Nov-2013 at 12:07 PM.
Last edited by ASiegel on 15-Nov-2013 at 11:40 AM.

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ASiegel 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 15-Nov-2013 12:56:51
#43 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 195
From: Unknown

I have transferred the donor information from the 2008 web page into a spreadsheet document. Excluding donations made by DiscreetFX or affiliated parties, the total amount of donations was 4199,16 US dollars.

The Project: Timberwolf page lists 12 donations as "Amizilla refunds". Of those, at least ten could be found on the 2008 DiscreetFX list and their total is 251,78 US dollars.

In conclusion, based on the information that is still publically available today, DiscreetFX might have up to 3950 US dollars left.

Last edited by ASiegel on 15-Nov-2013 at 12:57 PM.

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ChrisH 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 15-Nov-2013 13:11:45
#44 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

I'm surprised that Kas1e hasn't been posting here too, since he has some serious reservations about the wording of this bounty:
http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?start=140&topic_id=6110&viewmode=&order=ASC&type=&mode=0
(latest: http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?start=180&topic_id=6110&viewmode=&order=ASC&type=&mode=0 )

Given that Kas1e & co will likely be the ones expected to port Odyssey to AmigaOS4, I think his concerns should be listened to, and I'm shocked that he was not consulted about this bounty (it seems to have been an AROS-centric discussion?).

Last edited by ChrisH on 15-Nov-2013 at 01:13 PM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 15-Nov-2013 at 01:12 PM.


_________________
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I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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PR 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 15-Nov-2013 13:44:41
#45 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1939
From: Suomi-Finland

I know and really don't care for the 10 or some but still there was some serious overall money so something has to be done with those before inflation eats it all..

DiscreetX : What Can be done? I mean for All Amigaflavours so not speaking only for these OS4 and Classics.

Step Up

The most stupid idea in my mind is to pay anyone back anything as it is very time consuming, expensive and even impossible (thought about it) so some could be moved to anything towards the few targets if not done allready. I rest my case.

Just make a poll to where and then You know.

@all
Please understand my sence of humour. Without that I'd not be writing anything anymore.. I think the moneybag is just not to be humoured about like the famous Timberwolf project too or any else.

Let's make a donation for me that there would be time to start up some Amigas from catering my girls as they are sick from the playschool. Fever and ears are sore. 1+3 years old. Luckily the virus does not transfer to You from the net.

Let me play;)

Pretty Please?

EDIT: Thank You ASiegel! We will wait for the rest.

Best Regards, PR

Last edited by PR on 15-Nov-2013 at 02:01 PM.
Last edited by PR on 15-Nov-2013 at 02:00 PM.

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ASiegel 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 15-Nov-2013 16:04:32
#46 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 195
From: Unknown

@ ChrisH

Quote:
Given that Kas1e & co will likely be the ones expected to port Odyssey to AmigaOS4, I think his concerns should be listened to, and I'm shocked that he was not consulted about this bounty (it seems to have been an AROS-centric discussion?).


I am shocked that you claim to be shocked considering that you yourself have very actively participated in a discussion thread on another forum that included a whole series of posts in which kas1e detailed his expectations and received several responses from Fabien before the fund raising started.

Since kas1e had already been very vocal about his views in public and even directly communicated with Fabien, there was clearly no need for a third party to collect and then rehash the same arguments yet again.

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Cool_amigaN 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 15-Nov-2013 16:59:25
#47 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2006
Posts: 1192
From: Athens/Greece

I am even more shocked than you being shocked like ChrisH is shocked by Kas1' bounty goals details shock, that this story this hasn't been a news item at Amigans.net until now!

Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 15-Nov-2013 at 05:01 PM.


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Tomas 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 15-Nov-2013 18:43:02
#48 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Jul-2003
Posts: 4286
From: Unknown

@ChrisH
Looks to me like this will be another one of these projects that will never lead to anything then...
Also pretty sad to see certain people in that thread pretty much bashing his coding ability after all he has done previously which wont really help out either..

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Kronos 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 15-Nov-2013 20:21:06
#49 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2209
From: Unknown

I'm just shocked bout myself for even trying to figure some sense in that ....


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- blame Canada

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itix 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 15-Nov-2013 22:27:23
#50 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2004
Posts: 3398
From: Freedom world

@ChrisH

To compile cairo.library you need png.library, z.library, bz2.library, freetype.library, expat.library and iconv.library (and possible more). There are various contributors and all developers would have to agree to open source their work. While on the other hand only significant change is that those are shared libraries but it is not show stopper.


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Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

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PR 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 16-Nov-2013 2:03:04
#51 ]
Super Member
Joined: 1-Sep-2004
Posts: 1939
From: Suomi-Finland

I'm so happy that the A500 is fixed now and boots the 2000+ disks again.

Be happy, not shocked;)

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 16-Nov-2013 3:04:22
#52 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1872
From: Chicago, IL

@ASiegel

DiscreetFX didn't remove these pages on purpose. Late last year the DFX site got infected and many pages had to be removed to restore the site to functionality. The Open Video Toaster site was down for many months also until a clean backup was found and updated. Your right all the AmiZilla pages and especially the page of the donors should be available to all. I will work to find a clean backup and update those pages and restore them online.

Keep in mind that donators had the option to get their donation back with Paypal fees and interest, most chose this option instead of donating to Project Timberwolf. Getting a refund was the most popular selection people chose for their funds. Donors also had the option to donate to Charity Water and several people selected that option.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 16-Nov-2013 at 04:06 AM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 16-Nov-2013 at 03:58 AM.


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ChrisH 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 16-Nov-2013 9:57:22
#53 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@ASiegel Quote:
considering that you yourself have very actively participated in a discussion thread on another forum that included a whole series of posts in which kas1e detailed his expectations and received several responses from Fabien before the fund raising started.

Well done on entirely missing the point! It's not that Fab didn't discuss with Kas1e/etc what they wanted, it's that THE PEOPLE WHO CREATED THE BOUNTY did not talk to Kas1e at all. I quote the response given to Kas1e:
Quote:
"Please note that the bounty terms have also been reviewed by other developers who have worked on Odyssey ports. While we did receive suggestions for modifications, which we complied with, they did not concern any of the things you pointed out."

Emphasis is mine.

The power2people Odyssey bounty appears to have excluded Kas1e, and I can only presume the other OS4 developers who originally ported MUI-OWB to AmigaOS4. That would seem to mean they only consulted AROS developers, which might make sense given that every other bounty on that site is AROS-specific.

This is a problem because Kas1e/etc are (going to be) asked to port Odyssey to AmigaOS4. But if they are not happy with the wording of the bounty, then there are serious worries whether the bounty will achieve what people think it will. We may get a one-off incomplete port of the latest Odyssey, which then languishes untouched for years (again). And there are other concerns.

This bounty is asking for a LOT of money, so you can't just brush such concerns aside. Especially since this bounty merely provides source code, rather than guarantee we get a port, before the money is handed over.

Last edited by ChrisH on 16-Nov-2013 at 10:03 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 16-Nov-2013 at 10:02 AM.
Last edited by ChrisH on 16-Nov-2013 at 09:58 AM.


_________________
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I can usually be found on www.Amigans.net (my favourite Amiga forum).
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

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ASiegel 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 16-Nov-2013 10:21:36
#54 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 195
From: Unknown

@ DiscreetFX

Quote:
DiscreetFX didn't remove these pages on purpose.

Actually, they were removed long before the website (or rather the server since the DFX website is mostly static HTML) got infected. If you click on the link to the AmigaWorld story about the cancellation of AmiZilla, you will see that people discuss the inability to review the donor list in the comment section. Again, this was back in 2009, not 2012.

Quote:
The Open Video Toaster site was down for many months also until a clean backup was found and updated. Your right all the AmiZilla pages and especially the page of the donors should be available to all. I will work to find a clean backup and update those pages and restore them online.

You asked me for a backup of the DiscreetFX website in December of 2012 which I provided a few days later. The backup archive, which was sent on December 13 and might still be in your inbox, included all AmiZilla pages including the list of donations.

Last edited by ASiegel on 16-Nov-2013 at 12:10 PM.

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ASiegel 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 16-Nov-2013 11:44:04
#55 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 195
From: Unknown

@ ChrisH
Quote:
Well done on entirely missing the point! It's not that Fab didn't discuss with Kas1e/etc what they wanted, it's that THE PEOPLE WHO CREATED THE BOUNTY did not talk to Kas1e at all.

I am afraid you are missing the point.

Clearly, Fabien is the key figure here. He spent years writing his own web browser, and he then made the original proposal to share the source for his HTML5 media implementation for 7000 - 7500 USD, which kas1e supported at the time. Fabien later graciously modified his proposal to include the entire Odyssey browser (minus any code he did not own), not just the HTML5 media part.

If Fabien does not have the time to spend months porting Odyssey to AROS and AmigaOS, as requested by kas1e, then it cannot be a bounty requirement. If Fabien cannot release various dependencies because he does not own the code, which you personally agreed with, then it cannot be a bounty requirement even though it may make life easier for kas1e, and so on, and so on.

At the end of the day, everyone is free to discuss their dream bounty terms via emails or in forums as much and for as long as they like, but none of this matters if the person who spent countless hours creating something valuable would rather walk away from it all than to agree to terms that are just not acceptable for various reasons.

Quote:
The power2people Odyssey bounty appears to have excluded Kas1e

kas1e's opinions have received plenty of attention from all involved parties, and he has received many replies in public forums, which you very well know.

Quote:
which might make sense given that every other bounty on that site is AROS-specific.

You are mistaken. The Directory Opus Magellan bounty is listed as an AmigaOS project and received donations from users of different operating systems.

Quote:
This bounty is asking for a LOT of money

Compared to the work involved, it is not. At all. Why don't you ask the Project Timberwolf developers if the 9000 -10.000 USD that had been collected for them were a fair compensation for their efforts?

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wawa 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 16-Nov-2013 16:29:06
#56 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 6259
From: Unknown

Quote:
the rules of power2people say that the bounty-text cannot be changed after first donations. It is only possible to change the text by making a new bounty (and transfer money by people)


but its possible to extend the bounty as long as the requirements of the old bounty fit within the requirements of the new one. it is logical if you ask me and allow to specify further requirements if the old ones dont suffice. this is what happened with this very bounty if you mlook close.

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DiscreetFX 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 16-Nov-2013 19:29:52
#57 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Feb-2003
Posts: 1872
From: Chicago, IL

@ASiegel

They were removed in error during a site update glitch in Nov 2009 but it was fixed within 6 hours when someone made us aware of the problem. Then those pages were available for several years until the site got infected in 2012. This infection was not fully fixed until 2013 and all infected pages had to be removed to prevent further spreading of the infection. Thanks for the information, I will check the backup you mentioned and will restore from it on the next DiscreetFX site upload.

Here is a link to Wayback Machine that shows the donor list was available after November 19th, 2009.

http://archive.is/9uv3q

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 16-Nov-2013 at 07:37 PM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 16-Nov-2013 at 07:33 PM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 16-Nov-2013 at 07:30 PM.


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amigang 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 17-Nov-2013 10:37:58
#58 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jan-2005
Posts: 1497
From: Cheshire, England

I want to donate but I'm just wondering if there is an option if the bounty is not achieved can I move my money to another project or even just to the aros fund. I think this should be an option on all bounties, maybe yor money is locked in for a year of donation time and then you have an option to move it or remove it minus the paypal fees of course.


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ASiegel 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 17-Nov-2013 10:48:13
#59 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 195
From: Unknown

@ amigang

Generally, donors can always move funds as long as a project has not been assigned to a developer yet. If a developer agrees to finish a particular project for 1500 dollars, it would not be fair if donations were allowed to drop once the work has started.

If the Odyssey project is cancelled, it won't be assigned to a developer anymore so you will obviously be able to move your donations around or request a refund.

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ASiegel 
Re: Odyssey Web Browser Bounty Project for AmigaOS & AROS
Posted on 17-Nov-2013 11:01:44
#60 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 22-Oct-2013
Posts: 195
From: Unknown

@DiscreetFX

Technically, it is correct that the amizilla_donors.html page was still on the server but it should be pointed out that website visitors could not reach it by normal browsing.

I recommend that you review cached versions of the amizilla.html page that is being linked to from the community.html page. While this used to include links to the donor page in 2010 and before, it just contained a logo in 2011 and 2012.

So, Bill, when somebody went to the DiscreetFX website, clicked on "Community" and then "Amizilla", they would get a page with a logo but absolutely no way to access to the list of donations.

I am sure you will agree that it would be dellusional to expect visitors to just guess the correct web address.

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