Very well presented pdf and News item!

The pdf file explaining the procress step by step is excellent designed.

If I should nitpick on a small detail;

It would have been nice if you had linked

www.indiego­-gaming.com/marketplace

In the newsitem itself too, so we dont have to copypaste from the News item.
As i said, just a veeeeery minor comment.

Well done ^^

I have a few questions:

1. Does it support MorphOS? If so, how many of these 250 users are from MorphOS platform?
2. Is "amicoin" a real cryptocurrency, or just a catchy name?
3. Do you consider payouts in bitcoins?

Last edited by g_kraszewski on 15-Nov-2014 at 05:15 PM.

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RastPort

Hi,
1. yes it does. So far the clients are not calling home so i don't now how many are only running morphos. I believe if they do, they also use Windows or AROS or even AmigaOS.

A user account (indieGO-ID) is not bound to a single platform.
You can log in at a PC and browse your purchased software you bought from your MorphOS-machine.

2. Those amicoins or indieCoins (the first name is catchy only in our community) are bonus-points. Not exactly a currency (yet). Their value is bound to € but as always people could trade them (but this will come later).
In Step one they are used as Nintendo did with Wii-Points and M$ with xbox-live points. It is also planned to earn them via gaming.
In step 2 we will provide a wallet and a online exchange platform. Than it becomes a alternative to crypto coins.
The coins will not be mineable but you can earn them. It still brings some positive effects as being able to make nano-payments and other things.
For this step I need to cooperate with a german bank because at this stage it is a "financial service". Alternatevily i can found a company on malta or estonia ; )

3. For now payouts are in € (100ami-/indiecoins = 1€)
If you like i can exchange this in bitcoins and send you bitcoins but in that case i fear that additional fees (through to exchanges) would reduce the payout.

There is the amigacoin www.amigacoin.org . I would happily support that as well. But this will happen next year.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 15-Nov-2014 at 05:33 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 15-Nov-2014 at 05:32 PM.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

This is probarly not the place for such a discussion, and I do think I recall its being discussed somewhere in the past;

But what is the advantage of IndieCoins over cold hard cash from Creditcards?

Im kinda conservative, not even giving all the "coin" hype a second look.
Its possible "coins" are just as or more secure, but dunno

I try to mix the pro's of cryptocoins + bonus points + "Regiowährung" (don't now the english translation) http://www.zeit.de/2011/21/A-Waldviertel

Those are for example:
- cool name ; ) - ok not so important
- you can do micro transaction of values below 1 cent ... as 0.000000001 for example
- you can support some products and dealers with subsidizing
- I can overcome tax and regulation of each target country because:
I sell amicoins/indiecoins in form of codes to dealers (which can be arround the globe)
Those sell to end users and cover so the regulations in the target country
So all that is covered outside our own system.
- starting a cooperation with Fidorbank brings additional PR
- I can promote own products while offering a cashback in form of those coins...
the good thing here is that this cashback is used in the own store and supports again development.

Those coins will be also included in other coming services as payment method or can be earned while playing.
At some point there must be a start. We start know and the whole concept will more visual next year.

At a start you will be able to buy indiecoins via paypal or normal bank transfer (eBay ares-shop and dealers).
In january/februaray there will be a website where you can buy them via paypal or bitcoins directly.
But in order to support existing "dealers" i plan to be always the "most expensive source" .

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 15-Nov-2014 at 06:08 PM.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

One more advantage in having something like Amicoins instead of real cash would be following hypothetical example:

Lets say I would have a game like Nintendos Super Smash Bros Brothers (or whatever the name exactly is).

I could then make something like Project X:s bonus level, but Super Smash Bros Brothers themed. And I could perhaps do so that best 10 players that month, all get 100 Amicoins.

Then these Amicoins could be used to unlock some Super Smash Bros Brothers characters.


With something like Amicoins it would be easy to do. But having eral euros, much harder and takes also bigger step for me to actually give money to these people, than just some virtual Amicoins.


This example isnt very solid one for indiegos case, since in this one, you actually can buy real stuff with Amicoins, which Indiego owner has to pay from someone something.


But basically as long as you are not selling anything physical, but digital only stuff (means free manufacturing cost, regardless how many copes are sold), you could even give something like that, despite that you prefer to have real euros for unlocking those characters.




@PhoenixConsole.

I might have actually asked this already, but did you still have that special join bonus for those developers who join it now already? If i correctly remember you were talking of something like 3 percent discount, or extra or something?

And do you have any quailty check on stuff that you put there. That if i make a freeware game and put it to indiego, does it actually need to meet some minimum standard, or anything (quess which numebr from 1 to 10) goes?


slight bug somewhere: http://www.indiego-gaming.com/marketplace

when i tried to copy paste it with win7 machine with microsoft word from that "for publishers"-doc, it gave extra "-", making it "indiego--gaming", and hence failed. Worked fine after i removed the extra "-".


Edit:
another mistake?
http://aros-broadway.de/indiego//marketplace/files/terms-and-conditions-of-services---indiego-appstore.pdf

it says: "You defined a product price of 1200 Amicoins. As soon a Service user buys your product you will get 1200 Amicoins minus 20% booked on your account. In this example 840 Amicoins"

I guess it should read 940 Amicoins.

Last edited by Bugala on 15-Nov-2014 at 10:32 PM.
Last edited by Bugala on 15-Nov-2014 at 10:06 PM.
Last edited by Bugala on 15-Nov-2014 at 10:02 PM.
Last edited by Bugala on 15-Nov-2014 at 10:00 PM.
Last edited by Bugala on 15-Nov-2014 at 09:56 PM.

: D
Thanks of course 940. I will update it tomorrow.
The fee is actually set to 12% by default and can be changed on a per developer base.
This fee will be higher for later registered developers.
It will not raise for developers after registration.
Means if you register and your fee is 12% i can't raise it in the future for you. I can lower it if there is a reason but I can't raise.

I offered a 3% discount in my ares-shop some weeks ago ; )

If you like to become a publisher/developer you can follow this steps:
http://aeros-os.org/guistore/IndieGO-dev-guide.pdf

The link to the developer-interface is here:

Developer-Registration

1. You need to create a user account (can be done via client as well)
2. Than apply as developer
3. Wait for activation (I did a manual activation some minutes ago - you should be able to start)
4. LogIn again and you will find the additional options

About quality checks and so on:
Nope: It is up to the developer to ensure that the app meets his requirements
User/devs/customers can report apps. Than we check and solve the problems.
It maybe that someone steals stuff from other or does illegal things or discrimination, this can be reported and we will solve that.
i trust in people and since we activate manually I am aware of the persons (especially in our small community)

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 15-Nov-2014 at 11:35 PM.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@phoenixconsole: I would reconsider creating own cryptocurrency, 99.9% of these wannabe bitcoin clones are dead within 6 months. Why not simply use the real one, bitcoin? Its adoption worldwide increases exponentially.

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RastPort

Hi,
There is a difference:
Indiecoins are earned by work and creativity
Bitcoins by mining
Trust me the first has more value.

It is no clone, it just offers similar "features" in terms of payment.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@phoenixconsole: But are they (amigacoins) backed up by distributed trust, cryptography and blockchain infrastructure? Or are they just some "monetary units" invented by you and pegged to euro, existing only inside your project?

And about trusting you - real cryptocurrencies are invented just for removing a need of trust to any central emmitting entity, "In numbers we trust". Mining is not what gives bitcoin its value. It is only a mean of providing distributed trust by cryptography and laws of mathematics.

If I understand well, how amicoins work - they only have any value inside IndieGO!, and once the program collapses or, for example database crashes, they are useless numbers. On the other hand similar thing with bitcoin requires to shut down the whole Internet.

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RastPort

It is a centrally controlled system but it is up to it's users to decide on value in exchange for real money.
We start with 100indiecoins = 1€ ... this may change.
What happens if your computer with the bitcoins is burned down?
Your bitcoins are gone as well.
In a centrally controlled system, the amount is bounded to your ID.
And in case the PC burns, the system will be still aware of your last amount.

Of course you can say that if the service is going down.. the money is going down as well. But I mentioned in the past that everyone who wants to use indiecoins outside the service to pay real goods will need to apply as member of a club/foundation (german Verein). So at least the system is not bound to a single person - it is a community. Details will follow. At first it is nothing more than Wii-Points/XBOX-ive-points mixed with Payback-points to subsidize for example gifts (Hardware/Software/Money) for developers.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@phoenixkonsole 

Quote:

- you can do micro transaction of values below 1 cent ... as 0.000000001 for example

how many micro transactions do you need to make a living? Unless your trading high on stock exchange making millions of transactions a day it has no value.

Quote:

- I can overcome tax and regulation of each target country because: I sell amicoins/indiecoins in form of codes to dealers (which can be arround the globe) Those sell to end users and cover so the regulations in the target country  So all that is covered outside our own system.

As soon as you wont to convert your AmiCoins into cash, the bank sees a cash flow, and so you need to pay tax for it. Sure you don't need to add VAT when you pay for products, but you will have to pay VAT when your buying AmiCoins.

Sure it can save you the paypal fee.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2014 at 02:21 PM.

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Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@Bugala

Quote:

I could then make something like Project X:s bonus level, but Super Smash Bros Brothers themed. And I could perhaps do so that best 10 players that month, all get 100 Amicoins.

Well if Amicoins is just going to be produced, and given away it wont have any value, the inflation in the currency will make highly unattractive, for people how spend hours coding.

You might find your self in world where people earn more money playing the games, then making the games.


On most Facebook games, you have system where player can do X number of moves a day, when you run out of moves you can pay cash to get more moves or wait to the next day. And also you can buy stuff for real crash that help you do things in the game faster or easier.

Now that's a system that can generate some cash flow.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2014 at 02:54 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2014 at 02:33 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2014 at 02:31 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Nov-2014 at 02:30 PM.

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Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

Of course money will not "generated" (this would be like mining) when people play. Each indiecoin is based on real money.. so if there is no money, there will be no way to earn by gaming.
Means indiecoins are covered by real money. No income = no new amicoin/indiecoin.
The fees the system takes from sales and advertising and other services like amicloud are used for this.

Micro transactions make sense for financial services and advertising.
And especially if a currency becomes more worth.

About VAT:
exactly. VAT will be paid when a customer buys indiecoins.
Example: Me sells code to Vesalia (just a example) they resell and provide a invoice including VAT. The user enters the code and get his credits. User buys for X coins and developer get the coins on his developer account (minus fee). He could use it inside the system to buy software from others or request a payout. He will get the amount paid in € (100coins = 1€). He must than do a financial statement as his country asks for and depending on his form of company.

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 16-Nov-2014 at 02:34 PM.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

@phoenixconsole:

What happens if your computer with the bitcoins is burned down?

The main point is that my computer does not contain any bitcoins. It is just a tool used to manipulate (pay, receive) them. My bitcoins are controlled with a private key. As long as I have the key, I own my bitcoins. Of course if I'm stupid enough to have the key only as a file, and have no backup copies of it, the case is lost.

Anyway we've gone off topic. As long as these amicoins can be immediately converted to euro or (would be better...) bitcoin and cashed out, it is not a big thing. Now I'm reading more about the whole IndieGO thing. I see there are MorphOS clients, so I'm going to try them.

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RastPort

Ok : )
The last versions is running boarderless and is big in size.

Please check the "prefs" folder in the archive and edit global.config in an text editor.

You can toggle window boarder on (changing 1 = 0)
Also you can change the window size in percents based on your screen resolution.
width = 0.85
height = 0.85

should be reduced to 0.5 each (50%) this will speed it up on slower systems.
This will match in theory the amistore size.

Next release will have this as default settings.
As soon you logIn, a second app - the download manager will be launched and autohided/iconified

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 16-Nov-2014 at 02:42 PM.
Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 16-Nov-2014 at 02:39 PM.

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AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

The good news is that it works. As there is one MorphOS application in the store, which is free, I could "buy" it and then download. I've registered in the system using GUI client, test purchase has been done with the text client.

While "text client" sounds like something cryptic and cumbersome to use, in fact I like it more than the GUI one. It is of course faster, but also some things work better, like app filterning. Finding all MorphOS apps available seems to be not easy with GUI client, with text one it was just one command. Of course GUI client has filtering too (there is no visual hint how to scroll the list of systems, and most obvious things, like mousewheel, do not work). But then one has to guess where the hell is this one filtered application... BTW, why the platform is "MorphOS 3.4"? SokoMUI won't work with 3.3?

One usability hint for the text client: display the menu on any unknown command entered (so it also works for "?" or space). Guessing that "MEN" displays the menu once you don't see it, is not obvious. Another thing: password is visible in the requester when being entered. And yet another, use "\r" when displaying download progress, so it stays in one line until finished.

GUI client has more issues. For example when creating an account, there is no visual hint (cursor, or some gadget focus) where to click to enter the username/password. Also I've thought that when I want to login, I just enter credentials into these rectangles named "Login" and "Password", but they turned out to be just buttons opening additional windows. I see no point in this, just more useless clicks. The GUI client seems to be slow, but I guess it is not caused by Hollywood, but by downloading images from the net. Seems that these images are not cached, so switching between program panels is a bit slow.

Another thing is your terms of service. It has taken me some time to read through this legal shit. Really I have used this strong word for a good reason. Basically it can be summed up as "I'm not responsible for anything". According to this text, you can just sell whatever number of amicoins to users, and then send "Hello suckers!" postcard from some Carribean island. And noone can sue you then. Maybe I'm bending it to the extreme, but this is how it looks. Of course I can bet AmiStore has even worse nightmare to accept (Ben Hermans is a seasoned lawyer, you know). Anyway I've seen too many "let's get rich in two weeks" schemes, and reading such terms lits a red light in my brain. Not saying that it is really too long, looks like Microsoft EULA .

Last edited by g_kraszewski on 16-Nov-2014 at 03:49 PM.
Last edited by g_kraszewski on 16-Nov-2014 at 03:44 PM.

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RastPort

: )
Yes I like the text client as well. Will be updated later and as soon hollywood allow non-RTG applets for classics (is in the works) it will be a nice retro way to get stuff.

About the login in in the graphical client. It is just needed to enter the name and password and not to click inside the fields.... well i never did because I was aware of... you of course not : ) Ok we will think about that.

About SOKO-Mui and MorphOS 3.4 good point. Will be corrected.
Images are cached but only if downloaded once.

About Terms of Service... yes I know.. My now terms would be one sentence long : )
The problem is that i need to secure developers and me, so it is longer than necessary.

Next client will be faster in general because Fabio changed some parts as the communication between client and download manager.

In general:
We are in the process to include "features". After that we will focus on UI design and arrangement... this is a discipline for it self. I am glad for any feedback : )

Last edited by phoenixkonsole on 16-Nov-2014 at 04:00 PM.

_________________
AROS Broadway - AEROS - Aminux - AmiCloud - indieGO! Appstore - AmiWallet - VAN lossless video codec - AMC Amiga media Center -KrypUnite - LibertyNet - MinX - amigaNX

The whole Amicoin business exists for two reasons:

1. Pascal can offload the actual selling of product (i.e. coins) for real currency to external dealers, which makes *his* job a lot easier regarding taxes and legal requirements. IIRC, he's not going to sell coins himself, which means he would only be dealing with (say) five dealers as far as real financial transactions are concerned.

2. A virtual currency is a simple way to make the customer spend more money than he actually wants to. Got some coins left? Why not buy five more coins and get this super hot special deal instead of having them lying around useless for months?

BTW I have also noticed some "Opt In" mail has been send. I have some remarks:
1. Seems like clicking on the confirmation link is not needed for using the account. I don't really know what this "Opt In" means. It should be explained in the mail.
2. The confirmation link in the mail is broken, it has superfluous "http://" at the start. I had to cut the relevant part with mouse, put in a text editor, remove extra linefeeds from inside and then finally paste to the browser...
3. The link points to a server with just an IP address instead of a domain. It looks suspicious and some mail clients will mark such link as possibly leading to a mailcious site.
4. Mail at Google . I guess you should get a domain and mailbox in this domain as well.

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RastPort