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Internet News   Internet News : AO Interview with Dave Haynie
   posted by MikeB on 1-Oct-2003 19:59:46 (4294 reads)
Amiga.org has done an extensive interview with ex-Commodore Amiga system designer Dave Haynie, who designed many critical parts of the classic Amiga 2000, 3000 and 4000 desktop computers.
    

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peggus 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 2:19:55
#1 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Jul-2003
Posts: 159
From: Pasadena

Great interview!

It's amusing to watch the usual suspect over at A.Org soiling their pants over Daves rather understandable disinterest in the peg.

Hmm, FPing on amigaworld just doesn't have the same feeling as it does on slashdot


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Argo 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 2:36:18
#2 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 277
From: St. Lawrence Co., NY, USA

That's cause you screwed it up. You were suppost to just post "First Post". :)


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herewegoagain 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 3:14:12
#3 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 3270
From: Charlotte, NC

Quote:
It's amusing to watch the usual suspect over at A.Org soiling their pants over Daves rather understandable disinterest in the peg.


Yeah, I see they are already offering to send him a system and fly him to some show just to see the Peg, because "he is just underinformed". It just doesn't pay to try and make your own decisions I guess.

Oh, and the interview was nice if extremely long.

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Mountain_Myst 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 4:18:53
#4 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

Heh...

I'm glad that someone whom has earned much respect in the Amiga community has finally spoken the truth about the situation.

Very well said.

I think Bruce Willis's 1,000,000 should go to Dave.

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Anonymous 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 5:30:23
# ]



Quote:
I'm glad that someone whom has earned much respect in the Amiga community has finally spoken the truth about the situation.

Huh? I don't know why this would make you so happy:

"[What do you think of the Amiga ONE?]

I do think there's room in the world for another Amiga-like computer. The problem today is that no one will make such a computer, at least not in the sense that the Amiga 1000 was in 1985. . . .The Amiga ONE will not be this kind of computer."

Or about the OS:
" I would like to play around with a modernized AmigaOS, no question about it. Whether it'll be modernized enough to stand up against something like BeOS (OpenBeOS, Zeta, whatever flavor you'd like), we'll see."

Dave really liked (likes) BeOS, which was *started* about the same time AmigaOS saw its last upgrade, so it's a more modern operating system in many ways. As he says, it remains to be seen whether AOS4+ will match it; of course, the MorphOS coders are also shooting for this space, so we'll see what happens.

"Now, unless I?ve missed a big thing, the excitement over the Amiga ONE is AmigaOS 4, pretty much start and finish. The excitement over Pegasos? Maybe MorphOS? I can?t say for sure..."

Sorry, but I don't see a ringing endorsement of the AmigaOne here, or a devastating slam of the Pegasos. Looks to me like he needs more information in both cases, doesn't it?

This part bothers me:
"[What do you think of AmigaOS4 and MorphOS?]
I haven?t used either of them yet. I would like to play around with AmigaOS 4, as I said, and I suspect I will. I don?t know quite why I would bother with MorphOS."

Not because he's down in MorphOS, but for the reason: it's not the official AmigaOS. While this is up to him, if he feels this way, it's kinda sad that a person would value appearances over substance.

And finally:
"The other reason I don?t have a need for MorphOS is the simple fact that they ARE after the Amiga community ? they specifically targetted it, with an OS that at least sounds much like an attempted AmigaOS clone."

Well, so what? Two companies are targetting a market, going after the consumers. The market doesn't "belong" to anybody, no market does. It's won by the best product or best marketing or whatever. Dave, like a lot of people bringing something emotional to the discussion, seem to feel that there is something sacrosanct about the "Amiga community" that makes it off limits to any OS/motherboard vendor that doesn't carry the Amiga, Inc. seal of approval. Sorry, guys, but that isn't how things work. Better mousetrap, anyone? This is one of the sadder parts of the interview for me, not the statements about Genesi products, but this kind of simplistic thinking.

-- gary_c

 
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Argo 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 5:34:34
#6 ]
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Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 277
From: St. Lawrence Co., NY, USA

Dude, There is no they in that. It's all Wayne.


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Bodie_CI5 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 5:39:02
#7 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jul-2003
Posts: 6739
From: Unknown

Someone over at Amiga.org asked if it would be better, that Genesi give him a free Peg machine... Is that how Genesi gains the "loyalty" of its "customers"???

If so, could I please have a free machine too???

I would so dearly love to own a "free" machine (as in beer), with the only caveat being to go onto websites and display the "benefits" of a Peg machine.


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The_Editor 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 5:52:30
#8 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 7628
From: 192.168.0.02 ..Pederburgh .. Iceni

And NOT any old Pegasos either....

Peg II, NO less.



If they could mount it in a gold plated case then that would be a boon.


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Anonymous 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 5:55:06
# ]



Quote:
Someone over at Amiga.org asked if it would be better, that Genesi give him a free Peg machine... Is that how Genesi gains the "loyalty" of its "customers"???

No, "Genesi" isn't doing anything. Wayne Hunt offered to send Dave his personal machine so Dave could try it out first-hand. I don't think the idea was to win his loyalty -- and if you know anything about Dave Haynie you'll know his loyalty can't be won this cheaply -- but just to let him experience the machine and OS so he can make an informed opinion, maybe positive or maybe negative.

You know, companies send products to people all the time to get them to try them and hopefully say good things about them. How do you think PC magazines and web sites get all the stuff they review? They don't buy it. Genesi happen to know how to market, they know how PR works. Maybe people don't recognize marketing in the Amiga world, it's been so long since we've seen it.

Genesi has been seeding developers with motherboards or systems because that's something they can do to grow the platform. Really, this is normal, not something underhanded or unfair. But there aren't any bad preconditions; people getting boards aren't obligated to say good things about Genesi at web forums. It just turns out that they want to, in most cases.

-- gary_c

 
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ikir 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 9:29:43
#10 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2002
Posts: 5646
From: Italy

Nice interview. I'm sure that Dave will love OS4

"we'll see"


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Anonymous 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 9:53:56
# ]



Gary maybe you should accept some people have different ideas than yours.

Dave's viewpoint is from outside the current situation, and he makes the point perfectly.
Amigaone and AmigaOS, interesting to Amiga enthusiasts.

MorphOS, wah? It might nice hardware, and it might be a well coded OS, but why?

Everytime I ask the same question I don't get any answers, why does Genesi exist, what are their goals, their target markets? I can only assume it's because there are no answers to those questions, Genesi/MorphOS/Pegasos must have no direction.

The attitude that The Peg + Morphos is great therefore everyone should use is it great. but you need to tell people why it's great. What does it do that I can't get elsewhere. I haven't seen any reason why it is so great, why it should command my attention more than any other pipedream.

And if no one can see why its so great it's a doomed project. Which gives me another reason not to have anythign to do with it.

 
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_Steve_ 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 12:44:55
#12 ]
Team Member
Joined: 18-Oct-2002
Posts: 6738
From: UK

Quote:
Poster: gary_c Date: 2-Oct-2003 5:30:23

This part bothers me:
"[What do you think of AmigaOS4 and MorphOS?]
I haven?t used either of them yet. I would like to play around with AmigaOS 4, as I said, and I suspect I will. I don?t know quite why I would bother with MorphOS."

Not because he's down in MorphOS, but for the reason: it's not the official AmigaOS. While this is up to him, if he feels this way, it's kinda sad that a person would value appearances over substance.


If he valued "appearances" over anything else, then the eye candy on display from MOS would surely win. The fact is simply he looks on Peg/MOS as an Amiga clone - it is not innovative in the way the original machine was, in the same way the original Amiga OS was. MOS has not tried to do anything different from all the other OSs out there and that was the point he was trying to make. He has a vested interest in seeing OS4 on an Amiga One, solely for nostaligia purposes and to see how an updated AmigaOS can fare against the plethora of other OSs he has now worked on or used.

Quote:

And finally:
"The other reason I don?t have a need for MorphOS is the simple fact that they ARE after the Amiga community ? they specifically targetted it, with an OS that at least sounds much like an attempted AmigaOS clone."

Well, so what? Two companies are targetting a market, going after the consumers.


Windows and Linux compete in the same markets, but Linux is hardly a direct binary compatible clone of Windows with a few knobs on. For all of Genesi's comments saying they are not after Amiga users, nor do they wish to be associated with Amiga, they certainly have a funny way of going about it. They have always targetted the Amiga market, and use an OS that is very Amigalike and binary compatible to the original AOS.

I am sure if you created an OS looking just like Windows and that ran Windows apps, Microsoft would have something to say about it.

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ssolie 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 15:52:04
#13 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2712
From: Alberta, Canada

Quote:

This part bothers me:
"[What do you think of AmigaOS4 and MorphOS?]
I haven?t used either of them yet. I would like to play around with AmigaOS 4, as I said, and I suspect I will. I don?t know quite why I would bother with MorphOS."

Not because he's down in MorphOS, but for the reason: it's not the official AmigaOS. While this is up to him, if he feels this way, it's kinda sad that a person would value appearances over substance.


I think this is evidence that the Amiga brand is the current product distinguisher in the kind of market that Dave represents. If the only way a busy technically savvy community outsider can tell the products apart is by the name then we all have a heck of a lot of work to do.


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ssolie 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 16:18:01
#14 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2712
From: Alberta, Canada

Quote:
No, "Genesi" isn't doing anything. Wayne Hunt offered to send Dave his personal machine so Dave could try it out first-hand...


Wayne Hunt==Genesi now and that stigma will not just go away. Like it or not, people in positions of influence/power/celebrity/etc. are always implicitly representing their organizations.

That offer looks like an attempt at marketing a product and has nothing to do with helping Dave Haynie. He even signed his name, title and company at the bottom. At the very least Wayne should have sent a private email especially since he knows for a fact (from the interview itself) Dave does not read the forums very often and is a very busy man. How naive do we look? [wait; don't answer that]

Where I work, we have a strict policy against accepting any personal gifts/favours/etc. from any other company and we all know why.


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Anonymous 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 17:02:11
# ]



Wayne did it to visibly extend the offer.

Read into that what you will.

 
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RobertDupuy 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 21:22:54
#16 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-May-2003
Posts: 125
From: Unknown

Quote:
people getting boards aren't obligated to say good things about Genesi at web forums. It just turns out that they want to, in most cases.


Exactly right Gary. I had a board and I returned it.
I made no secret of the fact, that it wasn't going to meet my requirements, and why. Would have done the same with the AmigaONE, for that matter.

I loved Dave Haynie's interview, and he's mostly right about the situation. One thing, though, is the Amiga Name argument, something I practically invented back on c.s.a.m. years ago, (ironically, in response to the TransAM and the PIOS One)....is kind of tired now.

I hated to see AI have its customer base split in half. But the customer base was 200,000 or more back then.

Now, you see the customer based somewhere around 10,000, if someone even did take half, they couldn't take much, there just isn't much left.

I hope the Amiga OS 4 platform does well, but everyone is competing for new customers now...existing customers don't amount to a concern these days, and therfore, imho, the Amiga Name argument doesn't hold much water either.

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RobertDupuy 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 21:42:53
#17 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 1-May-2003
Posts: 125
From: Unknown

I find myself with unusual sympathy for some of the ideas in this thread.

I think its obvious Genesi is going after Amiga's customers....in fact, I never remember them saying otherwise...if they did, I didn't notice.

But yes, they are. And I think they will continue to do so, until that plays out. As soon as they go into mass production, they will either expand beyond this market, or give up...I don't see this continuing.

Just like Amiga, Inc. turned most of its focus to DE and windows and ms games....if that had succeeded, they wouldn't be an issue either.

a strange confluence of events has turned them back into a player for now, but I think we'll have resolutions from both these groups by next year.

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Anonymous 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 22:09:50
# ]



Quote:
I'm glad that someone whom has earned much respect in the Amiga community has finally spoken the truth about the situation.


Truth in the context you put it, is usually in the eye of the beholder.

I am posting this with a Peggy and no it is not crashing as i do it

 
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Mountain_Myst 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 22:49:48
#19 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2003
Posts: 112
From: Unknown

I'm happy for you.

I'm using Windows 2000 right now to post this message, and it hasn't crashed yet either.

We must both have really good Operating systems.

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Bean 
Re: AO Interview with Dave Haynie
Posted on 2-Oct-2003 23:30:30
#20 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Apr-2003
Posts: 1225
From: U.K.

Forget all this Amiga/Peg side stuff above for a moment. I just wanted to say that reading Dave Haynie's work history made a real interesting read!

I think he summed up what "Amiga" means perfectly at the end of his interview.


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