@Trezzer

Thanks for the info.

Quote:

PS3 for movies (Blu-Ray): Component: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i

Was this fixed with a software update? At first the PS3 would not do 720p for movies but 480p forcing those with DLP and LCD sets to upscale 480p to 720p within the TV.

Quote:

Xbox 360 for movies (DVD): Component: 480i, 480p

I thought the HD-DVD player for the 360 upscaled DVDs beyond what the console itself does. I'll have to double check that.
-

@BrianK

Quote:

The question was for gaming developers yeah you can use Linux but if you want to write games for the PS3 you don't want to tell people install Linux then run my game. You want the game to run directly.

Yes sure. But still, you might be able to use linux as a base and build the binary. Don't know if the ISO loaders are fake or not, but that would be your target for home brew. And if not, it would still run with a linux kernel (even a minimalistic like the debian live CD - one wouldn't even know, that thing runs on a linux kernel). I doubt that the GameOS API will be open any time soon without hacks.

BTW: Blender runs fine with just a SW open GL renderer on the PS3 (so much for some people claiming, a SW renderer is not enough - I should maybe keep working on my ablit and finish the GL part - or port Blender to OS4). Mesa demos on the PS3 in SW render mode are about the same as on my A1 (which has a much more optimized vmem handling).

Quote:

See XNA on the 360 for a kit that in home coders can use to write their own system friendly game, no 3rd party OS necessary.

XNA is a marketing gag. (now that's bold, isn't it If you are doing serious cross platform development, you have to go below XNA. XNA on a front end can assist you.

That's the typical MS BS (no, that's not a "bachelor of science" - or maybe it is? :) ), like with all these "Visual" crap. You will have quick results, just to find out, if you do complex stuff, you can scrap all this and start over again and this time you'll do it right.

If you wanna do quick games, one can do this with e.g. with Blender and it's integrated game engine, too, for example. Gives you a complete gaming environment with editor, scripting (python), physics (ode) and engine back end (cs/ogre ?). But, well, sure, not marketed like XNA.

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@Trezzer

Quote:

Xbox 360 for movies (WMV and HD-DVD): Component: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p

Oops sorry my bad... I misread and thought this was downloaded movies only.

@BrianK

Quote:

While I have not played RFoM to the end I have played it for ~1.5-2 hours. What I found is little gameplay any more complex then Call of Duty 3. If one has played CoD3 and enjoyed it perhaps they'll like a game that's about 92%+ similar but against aliens instead of germans.

Well, no, I don't agree.

a) Weapons. No upgrades in COD. Weapon handling is completely different.
b) Assisting teams. Does not exist in RFoM, and if, it is handled differently. The team in RFoM dies, if you are not carefull. In CoD3, they don't. Magically they are getting reborn after they die.
c) Puzzels: RFoM yes, CoD3 No.
d) Acchievments. RFoM yes, CoD3 no.
e) Enemies. RFoM a fixed number of enemies to clear out an area. CoD3 is move based. If you don't proceed, enemies will never die (or become less). This is a fundamental tactical difference.

Fundamental different engine. RFoM is much faster, CoD3 has much more glitches, IMO. CoD3 has much more realistic environment rendering, RFoM has much more variety in levels.

Your simplification would be valid for 100% of shooters. Yes, get in the game an pull the trigger, True, that's what all these games have in common.

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@Jorge

Quote:

XNA is a mareting gag

Well yes if you are planning on cross platform gaming it's not what you're going to use. But then again how many in home users programmed their Amiga demo and games for the Mac/PC/Atari/C=64?

Quote:

You will have quick results, just to find out, if you do complex stuff, you can scrap all this and start over again and this time you'll do it right.

You appear to think XNA is more simplistic then it truly is. You can use it like a simple point and click game creator if that's your desire but it is much more complex.

Quote:

Blender runs fine with just a SW open GL renderer on the PS3

In the PS3 OS without having to install Linux?

@minator

Quote:

Yes but you're talking about Linux here, what exactly are you going to use the GPU for?

Well, yes. But still, the PS3 linux, if it wants to be successful, will get into gamers, right ? So I would suppose if one wants to try e.g. to port ODE to the SPE it would be nice to have a nice render back end, too. And having shaders around wouldn't hurt.

Also, FBDev has a dog slow vmem interface. While your ray tracing video link is nice, the whole demonstration is pointless if you lose 80% performance because you have to copy the frame into the screen without e.g. using dynamic textures and let the RSX do the work.
(AFAIR: XDR->Vmem (PPU std I/O) 4GB/s, XDR->Vmem (RSX read DMA) 25GB/s - BTW: one more level to "parallelize". A fundamental learning experience to let the spe render into the texture buffer while the render core will update completely independent).

Last edited by Jorge on 20-Feb-2007 at 03:32 PM.

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@Jorge

Quote:

Well, no, I don't agree.

MikeB loves RFoM. That's all good. My play I found it less then the wet dream he makes it out to be. You disagree with me.. I've no problem with that. That's why they make a myriad of games so either of us can pick what we like better. Perhaps after the first hour RFoM improves.. I found little reason why I wanted to play beyond that first hour.

@BrianK

Quote:

While I have not played RFoM to the end I have played it for ~1.5-2 hours.

So you have seen between 1-12% of the single player game, depending on your skills. Everyone seems to agree the game becomes increasingly more impressive and fun along the way, actually the way I personally prefer to see in games. I enjoyed the last 1/3 of the game the most.

Have you played online?

@BrianK

Quote:

In the PS3 OS without having to install Linux?

Nope. Does XNA on the 360 (without run time environment) ?

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@jiyong

It is quite beyond me why you don't understand what is written in the thread.

How about a piece from an IBM whitepaper?

Quote:

HDMI can be easily converted to DVI through a cable. So this should be able to be fed to a DVI-compatible monitor, right? Well, no. There is a content-protection protocol called HDCP. When outputting data over the HDMI port, the PS3 will not output any data to non-HDCP-compliant devices. Therefore, unless your monitor is HDCP-compliant, you cannot use it to get digital output from the PS3...

From Programming high-performance applications on the Cell BE processor, Part 1

It's quite simple: No HDCP - no HDMI.

And the main issue he had was just that: The HDCP prevented him from using his grabber, because unlike what common sense dictates, the PS3 uses HDCP protection on all content sent through HDMI (and thus also on DVI).

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Feb-2007 at 03:39 PM.

@BrianK

Quote:

I thought the HD-DVD player for the 360 upscaled DVDs beyond what the console itself does.

No. Any Xbox 360 on the market is capable of showing DVD upscaled to 1080p. The only limitation is that it will only upscale to that resolution over VGA. It was a compromise Microsoft had to do, because generally it is a requirement that upscaling only takes place over DVI/HDMI with HDCP. After a bit of muscle-flexing they managed to get upscaling for VGA even though it's an analogue connection.

Quote:

Was this fixed with a software update? At first the PS3 would not do 720p for movies but 480p forcing those with DLP and LCD sets to upscale 480p to 720p within the TV.

I wasn't 100% sure of whether that was still the case so I let the PS3 have the benefit of the doubt and let people correct me in that specific scenario. Anyone?

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Feb-2007 at 03:32 PM.

@Jorge

Quote:

d) Acchievments. RFoM yes, CoD3 no.

What do you mean? All games have achievements these days. Right?

@Trezzer

I am still curious, why e.g. analog VGA wouldn't work. Maybe one can build a cable out of the scart connector and hook it up to a VGA monitor. As long as there is RGB/H/Vsync it should work. The analog signal is available on the PS2 style connector. However, I don't know if it includes a high def RGB signal (480i/480p for sure). I gotta try my VGA cable again.

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@Jorge

Quote:

Nope. Does XNA on the 360 (without run time environment) ?

I'm not entirely sure what you're asking, but eventually XNA games will be made available for all users - not just the content creators club. I'm sure any run time environment application will be available transparently when you download XNA content.

@Jorge

Quote:

Jorge wrote: Quote: In the PS3 OS without having to install Linux? Nope. Does XNA on the 360 (without run time environment) ?

XNA Framework is needed obviously.

But really do you equate loading a plug-in for an OS the same as loading and using a completely different OS?

@Jorge

Quote:

Maybe one can build a cable out of the scart connector and hook it up to a VGA monitor.

The SCART connector has a regular PAL/PAL60/NTSC output - not suited for xVGA. I guess the best bet would be something that converts the component signal to VGA.

@Trezzer

RFoM has secret unlocks which you can only guess. You get "achievement points" for that. This is a second system beside the puzzles and I have no idea how to unlock all these. There is no hint in the game, well, you know what they are. You get a list of hints. But they are pretty subtle. One (relatively simple and clear) would be: Kill 5 enemies in the that XX level using the Bullsey's Tag function. or such. But there are others which are not so clearly stated. And there a quiet a few available (more then puzzels - I got all these, after two runs and 3 separate location selcts - and I admit it - looking some up on the net)

Last edited by Jorge on 20-Feb-2007 at 03:56 PM.

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@MikeB

Quote:

So you have seen between 1-12% of the single player game, depending on your skills. Everyone seems to agree the game becomes increasingly more impressive and fun along the way,

You may be right as it's my friend's PS3 I don't have unfettered access to the game and perhaps if I spent more then a couple hours at it I'd like it more. The first part just didn't grab me though so I'm not knocking his door down to play.

@Jorge

Yeah, I was just teasing. Remember that every Xbox 360 game (from arcade to retail) has achievement points which adds to your total gamerscore (connected to your profile). That would of course include Call of Duty 3.

They're pretty fun, aren't they?

Even a game like GUN is more fun when you get achievement points for completing all the sub-quests and completing the game on higher difficulty levels.

Last edited by Trezzer on 20-Feb-2007 at 03:53 PM.

@BrianK

Well, yes, I compare it. Who cares how you make your code run, eventually ? The XNA plugin could be a complete OS. I would, however, differentiate "running thru a plugin" and "running binary code natively".

And the difference is: none. You have an app on a DVD/HD and start it. Same effect. You export a game thru XNA into a runtime frame work vs. build a binary (=export?) thru your what ever system. The tools are different, result is the same.

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