@pavlor

Beggers can't be choosers hey? If you want to get a replacement for your dying Eyetech machines get this! A software bundle and boing ball custom case for the people wanting an entry level OS4.x machine had not been announced and I guess that is unlikely now that this isn't the cheap option it was hope to be.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@OlafS25

Quote:

WinUAE running on a modern PC slow?

Yeh compared to QEMU, WinUAE is really slow, QEMU has support to allow AmigaOS4.1 to see a real graphic card. So you have native graphics, emulated CPU, of course all drivers are emulated.
the people who use it, describe it pleasant to use, and hard to setup.

With that you experience everything AmigaOS4.1 has to offer, only with lower FPS.
https://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?start=0&topic_id=8698&order=ASC&status=&mode=0

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

Yeh compared to QEMU, WinUAE is really slow,

CPU speed is similar (recent QEMU has somewhat faster FPU emulation). QEMU has faster network speed, WinUAE emulates better GFX (not faster) - QEMU is limited to SM502 emulation. And no, most people are not able to use real GFX card with QEMU (unless I find a way how to glue a GFX card into my laptop ).

QEMU dvelopment is quite fast and OS4 focused, unlike WinUAE, where PowerPC emulation is a side feature. Once all major issues in QEMU are fixed (better GFX card emulation, NVRAM emulation for autoboot), I will probably buy one laptop just for QEMU/OS4.

@pavlor

It takes a lot it seems.
it looks like “Apple M2/M1” is best for this, then “AMD Ryzen”, “Intel” on last please.
Not that shucking ARM is based technically is really CPU is most like the PowerPC.
then you “AMD Ryzen” that is smart prefetch cache handling.
We are really talking about most expensive gaming PC's to emulate a sam460 class computer, and as you say graphic emulation is lagging behind. surety is not best option for AmigaOS4.1, but is at least an option for anyone with laptop, or someone who want to try it out.

It’s not hard or should be hard to say emulation is not the way to go,

A1222 must only emulate the FPU, not complete PowerPC instruction set, that at least gives it advantage, but we see how improvement in CPU technology goes, but I think A1222 will stay ahead of curve for some time.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 07:46 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 07:45 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 15-Jul-2023 at 07:41 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

For anyone who owns a X5000, X1000 this product be less interesting, for anyone who has slower Sam440 / Sam460, I think they are looking at this product harder. yeh sure some beta tester and OS developers who will have hardware. I think also people gotten a small teste of a faster system, like vampire can be interested in this system. (if they are not hardcore gamers, but you don’t need Vampire to run A500 game) on the other hard how willing are they invest in a 2en system, this product arrived too late. Yeh.. if Amiga community is to expand, we need product has appeal outside of Amiga community. paradoxically the QEMU is providing good way try out the system without buying an expensive system first. But I wont expect a huge influx of new users from there. WinUAE simply does not do that, as it can’t offer 3D and video acceleration, and its soo slow.

My WinUAE5's classic AmigaOS 4.1 FE Update2 has Voodoo 3000 3D.

Using QEmu8 with native PCIe graphics card support would need the removal of RTX GPUs from my Zen2 (R9-3900X)/Zen 3 (R7-5800X)/Zen 4 (R9-7900X/7950X) based PCs and switch back to Saphire Radeon HD 7950. My RTX GPUs are large bricks RTX 3080 Ti OC/RTX 4080 OC/RTX 4090 OC models and it would be an inconvenience to remove them from the PEG slots and it can be hazardous with improper re-inserting 12vhpwr connectors.

The current gaming PCs which target PS5/XSX-era gaming hardware specs are unlikely to be paired with the 2013-era Radeon HD 7950/7970.

AmigaOS 4.1 doesn't support RX 7600/7900 XT/XTX. I don't recall AmigaOS 4.1 supporting RDNA 2-based RX 65xx/66xx/67xx/68xx/69xx series.

I don't think I'll be wasting "Zen 3" Ryzen 3 5100 and buying another dead-end AM4 motherboard with a 2013-era Sapphire Radeon HD 7950 GPU. My point, the high-end or late-model X64 CPU is unlikely to be paired with AmigaOS 4.1-supported PCIe AMD GPU.

From the Steam survey, gaming PC configurations with discrete GPUs are dominated by NVIDIA GPUs e.g. a single RTX 3090 SKU line equates to the entire discrete RDNA 2 GPU-equipped PCs. The most expensive gaming GPU RTX 4090 sales rate is defying the prediction of a gaming PC slump.

A standalone solution is better than modifying existing PS5-era gaming PC configurations.
Solutions like Vampire wouldn't be affecting the user's main PC.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

Hammer wrote:
Quote:

AmigaOS 4.1 doesn't support RX 7600/7900 XT/XTX. I don't recall AmigaOS 4.1 supporting RDNA 2-based RX 65xx/66xx/67xx/68xx/69xx series

To clarify, OS 4.1 doesn't support the above, but the Enhancer pack supports the following cards!

From http://eliyahu.org/tabor/setup.html

"As for GPUs there are a ton from which to select. You'll need the latest versions of the RadeonHD and RadeonRX drivers, and Warp3DNova for 3D support, but all of that comes with the A-EON Enhancer Software pack, and I'm confident that will be bundled with the A1222 when it ships. Any card supported by those drivers will work so long as it has a PCIe x16 connector. I highly recommend going with a RadeonRX card. In the past you had better support for legacy Warp3D games with the Southern Islands-based RadeonHD cards, but with Warp3DNova, that is no longer the case. The RadeonRX cards will deliver accelerated HD video playback as well as better 2D and 3D performance generally. Any of the following should work:

RadeonHD 77xx-79xx cards (except the 7790)
RadeonHD R7 240, 240D, 250, 250E, 250X, 265
RadeonHD R9 270, 270X, 280, 280X
RadeonRX 460, 470, 480, 540, 550, 560, 560D, 570, 580"

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm
Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

It’s not hard or should be hard to say emulation is not the way to go,

Yeah, emulation - as of now - is a mixed bag.

Quote:

We are really talking about most expensive gaming PC's to emulate a sam460 class computer

I think I would be able to build a desktop with emulated SAM460/Pegasos2 G4 class performance for less than 500 EUR. You don't need expensive CPU behemont, only somewhat reasonable single-core performance.

@NutsAboutAmiga

I assume you compare OS 4.1 Classic running in WinUAE compared to QEMU. I do not use it so I cannot say anything about it. QEMU seems to make progress and looks promising there. I only use WinUAE for 68k (what it is designed for) and there it is very fast

@fairlanefastback

Amiga ppc/NG start in 1995.
It was attempt to modernize Amiga to win 9x level.
Amiga NG is at least as fast and as comfortable in home use as pc with win98 or mac with mac os9.
goal was reached so Amiga NG was succes.
Nobody say it will be as modern as today pc.

not it is not equal to retro. It is better.
Amiga has everything that was standard since win95.
like

- cpu as fast as pentium 90
- 2D as fast as on pc in 1996
- 3D as fast as on pc in 1996
- working compatible MMU
- working compatible FPU

and os is compatible and cpu is real

It is faster and more comfortable than 68k
I reallly regret I don't buy Amiga NG earlier

emulation is nice but never replace real hardware
it is not the same

@ppcamiga1



There was no Windows 95 type AmigaOS 4.x release party just as there was no iMac type easy set up hardware launch! The A1222+ isn't changing that! Dribs and drabs incremental improvements are the order of the day!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@ppcamiga1
Quote:

ppcamiga1 wrote: emulation is nice but never replace real hardware it is not the same

I agree and I fail to see how EOL PPC hardware has 'replaced' 68k 'real' Amiga hardware?! I am glad you have no need for Windows 98 or MacOS 9 (like the rest of the world at this point) but all this really boils down to what is a fun cost effective hobby? Windows 98 was useful for its time though Windows XP was the first actually 'good' version of Windows and Windows 7 was the 'last' good version IMHO. AmigaOS is OK to launch some old classic apps but isn't a killer app in and of itself! That's were you NG diehards differ I guess?

Last edited by BigD on 16-Jul-2023 at 11:52 AM.

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@all

I got enough Computers, so Emulation and virtual Machines are my bet, I am simply losing Space to make more Computer Setups. Amiga OS 4.1 for me only in Emulation and the same for AROS in virtual Machines. My real life friends don`t even check what Amiga is all about or ever was, they don`t even check how to use Computers in any creative manner by themselves, so that`s why I talk about Computers with more Focus on creativity and keeping disabled People in mind for that!



Create Computers that make disabled People feel creatively enabled and feel fun with Computers! That`s what Amiga really was about back in the day!

Last edited by QBit on 16-Jul-2023 at 12:29 PM.
Last edited by QBit on 16-Jul-2023 at 12:28 PM.
Last edited by QBit on 16-Jul-2023 at 12:26 PM.

@ppcamiga1

Your under selling it.
We naturally progressed way past 1996 technology in some areas.

Quote:

- 2D as fast as on pc in 1996

"Windows Vista" is first to have accelerated desktop. is 2006 tech.
Windows 11 use the same tech today.

Quote:

- 3D as fast as on pc in 1996

transform and lighting year 1999
Shader 2001 (first graphic card with hardware shaders GeForce)
OpenCL 2009

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Jul-2023 at 01:44 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Jul-2023 at 01:34 PM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 16-Jul-2023 at 01:32 PM.

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@BigD

Quote:

AmigaOS is OK to launch some old classic apps but isn't a killer app in and of itself! That's were you NG diehards differ I guess?

I don't any user of OS4 considers it a kill app. They see it better more rounded and polished version of the OS running on hardware capabilities well beyond those offered by 68k machines.

@Rob

That means that it IS a killer app of sorts...just one for a small niche of people that need a more polished version of AmigaOS that can pretend to be nearly up-to-date!

That is not a big enough group of people to sell to IMHO! The A1222+ needed to stand on its own merits. It still unclear what those merits are for the rest of us!

_________________
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John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@BigD

But your really interested in this topic, it’s really strange to the rest of us!



Can be your accusing ppcamiga1 of trolling, while your actually trolling yourself.

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@BigD

I do not know if there are really some people still believing that AmigaOS (or any other of our platforms) is nearly on the same level as the big platforms. As I see it there are people who like to use it, be it nostalgy or whatever.

@BigD

Quote:

That means that it IS a killer app of sorts...just one for a small niche of people that need a more polished version of AmigaOS that can pretend to be nearly up-to-date!

It's not about pretending it's almost on level with mainstream operating systems, it's about being a better Amiga OS experience out of the box. I remember in the 90's, installing all sorts of add ons and patches to make a better user experience. OS4 has all those features and more built in. It has video, 3D and audio API's built in. Add the Enhancer software and you get more sophisticated 3D and hardware video decoding.

Quote:

That means that it IS a killer app of sorts...just one for a small niche of people that need a more polished version of AmigaOS that can pretend to be nearly up-to-date!

I don't know why you keep demanding people should convince you to buy one when we all know you never will anyway. For people interested their is plenty of information out their to researach on whether it is for them or not. A guy registered over on Amigans recently, never had an Amiga before in his life but is a big fan of PowerPC hardware so decided to get himself a brand new Sam460LE, he didn't feel the need to ask before if he should get one.

@RobertB

Quote:

RobertB wrote: Hammer wrote: Quote: AmigaOS 4.1 doesn't support RX 7600/7900 XT/XTX. I don't recall AmigaOS 4.1 supporting RDNA 2-based RX 65xx/66xx/67xx/68xx/69xx series To clarify, OS 4.1 doesn't support the above, but the Enhancer pack supports the following cards! From http://eliyahu.org/tabor/setup.html "As for GPUs there are a ton from which to select. You'll need the latest versions of the RadeonHD and RadeonRX drivers, and Warp3DNova for 3D support, but all of that comes with the A-EON Enhancer Software pack, and I'm confident that will be bundled with the A1222 when it ships. Any card supported by those drivers will work so long as it has a PCIe x16 connector. I highly recommend going with a RadeonRX card. In the past you had better support for legacy Warp3D games with the Southern Islands-based RadeonHD cards, but with Warp3DNova, that is no longer the case. The RadeonRX cards will deliver accelerated HD video playback as well as better 2D and 3D performance generally. Any of the following should work: RadeonHD 77xx-79xx cards (except the 7790) RadeonHD R7 240, 240D, 250, 250E, 250X, 265 RadeonHD R9 270, 270X, 280, 280X RadeonRX 460, 470, 480, 540, 550, 560, 560D, 570, 580" Truly, Robert Bernardo Fresno Commodore User Group - http://www.dickestel.com/fcug.htm Southern California Commodore & Amiga Network - http://www.portcommodore.com/sccan

I'm aware of A-EON's System54 branch.

Radeon HD R9 270, 270X, 280, 280X = Southern Island GCN renames from Radeon HD 7000 series i.e. Pitcairn based 7870, 7870 GE, and Tahiti based 7970 and 7970 GE models.
7970 GE ~= R9 280X.

7970 OC can be BIOS flashed into R9 280X e.g. https://www.techpowerup.com/forums/threads/anyone-else-try-this-7970-bios-flash.192064/#post-3013534

Radeon HD R7 240, 240D, 250, 250E, 250X, 265 = Oland, Cape Verde (HD7750, HD7770 GE ~= R7 250X) and Pitcairn-based HD 7850 ~= R7 265. 240s are the Olands.

I have Radeon HD 8870M (mobile version from HD7770) that is glued to my old Intel Ivybridge i7 laptop.

During AMD's Polaris GCN era and like many others, I switch to NVIDIA's Maxwell v2 GPUs. Fury X has an inferior 4 GB VRAM when compared to GTX 980 Ti's 6 GB VRAM.

There's little reason for R9-290X OC and R9-390X owners to purchase Polaris 10 and 11.
RX 580 was during RX Vega 56/64 8 GB VRAM era.

AMD's model number rebrands don't fool me.

RDNA 2 and RDNA 3 are the big rasterization improvements from AMD. Radeon RX 7900 XT 20 GB effectively knocked out RTX 4070 / 4070 Ti 12 GB and caused NVIDIA to freeze RTX 4070 production run due to excess inventories. I have Radeon RX 7900 XT 24 GB replacing the con-job RTX 3070 Ti 8 GB in my HTPC.

Last edited by Hammer on 17-Jul-2023 at 04:44 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Jul-2023 at 03:06 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Jul-2023 at 02:57 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Jul-2023 at 02:55 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 17-Jul-2023 at 02:28 AM.

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Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)