@jtsiren

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jtsiren wrote: You guys, go relax! Eat Master Chief's Doritos and drink his Game Fuel or something.

GameFuel purchased today.

It's sweet about the same sweetness as Mt. Dew. Any kid will love it. Advertised as citrus cherry flavor I can barely make out cherry tastes mostly orangeish to me. But orange if you mixed Mt.Dew + orange soda. Overall medicore. If someone likes fruity beverage go for it. If you prefer coke don't bother.

@BrianK

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2 Studios change to HD-DVD Exclusivity, Paramount and Dreamworks.

There are rumours they have been bribed for 150 million USD, if true per current HD DVD consumer (less than a million) that's a significant amount.

Toshiba earlier this year lowered its shipment estimations by 44 percent, with Blu-Ray movies outselling HD DVD movies by at least 2:1, so HD DVD exclusivity from a competitive business standpoint doesn't make any sense.

Paramount claimed the reason is actually production cost related, while in fact the production cost difference gap has actually decreased rapidly over the last couple of months and will most likely soon be on par (despite the better specifications of Blu-Ray disc).

IMO all this does is prolong consumer confusion and hurts the developing high definition movie market.

@MikeB

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There are rumours they have been bribed for 150 million USD, if true per current HD DVD consumer (less than a million) that's a significant amount.

Businesses encourage other businesses to use their product in a variety of ways. HD-DVD paying companies to use the HD-DVD format is obviously more advantageous then Sony forcing companies to pay them royalities to use Blu-Ray. Companies would rather take the bribe (as you call it) then pay the bribe.

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Blu-Ray movies outselling HD DVD movies by at least 2:1, so HD DVD exclusivity from a competitive business standpoint doesn't make any sense.

Yeah and DVD outsells both HD formats combined by leaps and bounds so to extend your logic doing neither HD therefore makes sense.

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despite the better specifications of Blu-Ray disc

Better specs for Blu-Ray is in MB/layer. New 3 layer HD-DVD can hold more content then the current 2 layer Blu-Ray. HD-DVD better specs are interactivity and internet ability. Blu-Ray is playing catch up this fall but very few of the current players, save the PS3, will likely be extendedable. HD-DVD stand alones are lower $. Now this isn't an extensive list but to say Blu-Ray has hands down better specs isn't true. Each has some advantages over the other.

One plus big plus with HD-DVD for movie studioes is the licensing fees don't go to Sony. Why is this a plus? Competition. Since Sony owns a large number of movies and produces a large number of movies. If Blu-Ray were to win then Sony will make $ off every single movie produced whether they did the production or not.
** Example: PepsiCo makes Pepsi and owns various fast food joints like Taco Bell and KFC. Other companies, Burger King noteably, dumped Pepsi because they didn't want their fast food $ going to the competition. BK didn't want each glass of pop sold indirectly helping to keep KFC in business next door. Coke is more expensive then Pepsi for BK.

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IMO all this does is prolong consumer confusion and hurts the developing high definition movie market

2 formats does do this. Samsung likely has an answer for the consumer. They're dumping Blu-Ray only players in favor of dual format players. Thus, the end consumer can further careless which one wins.

@BrianK

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Businesses encourage other businesses to use their product in a variety of ways. HD-DVD paying companies to use the HD-DVD format is obviously more advantageous

These companies already supported HD DVD. They alledgedly got paid to lock out more than 2/3 of potentially high-def consumers.

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Yeah and DVD outsells both HD formats combined by leaps and bounds so to extend your logic doing neither HD therefore makes sense.

I guess they would have had to pay much more to lock out ordinray DVD consumers. IMO such a thing doesn't make sense from a business perspective, consindering it's an already well established format.

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Better specs for Blu-Ray is in MB/layer.

And higher bitrates. Both formats use identical codecs, so it makes no sense from a competitive business standpoint to lock out a larger market with better specs to a minority inferior legacy technology with a smaller userbase from a compettive market perspective.

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One plus big plus with HD-DVD for movie studioes is the licensing fees don't go to Sony.

Sony doesn't own Blu-Ray.

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They're dumping Blu-Ray only players in favor of dual format players. Thus, the end consumer can further careless which one wins.

They aren\t dumping Blu-Ray, they will sell a Blu-Ray player which is also able to play HD DVD discs like it allows to play legacy DVDs and CDs. It will only come with a Blu-ray sticker as it won't support extras, just barebones movie playback (again identical codecs).

Last edited by MikeB on 21-Aug-2007 at 09:43 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 21-Aug-2007 at 09:41 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 21-Aug-2007 at 09:31 PM.

Back on topic, 360 failures seem to be on the increase again, this related to a new game called Bioshock, later more on that.

Tell your kids not to do this (From Kotagu):

"Apparently, a 14 year-old North Carolina boy was almost killed trying to keep his Xbox 360 from overheating. According to local news, the boy's mother found her son unconscious after he attempted to submerge the console in a pan of water. "When I left to go next door he was playing a game but when I got back he was laying on his back on the floor and unconscious," she said. The console, wrapped in plastic and tape, was still plugged in. The kid has read online that he could keep his 360 from over heating by cooling its power supply. By the time the ambulance showed up, the boy had regained consciousness. Thankfully, when the ambulance arrived, the boy had regained his senses. He was rushed to a nearby hospital and suffered small burns on his hand and foot. "

I think the Paramount/Dreamworks HD DVD move shows anything can happen in these format as well as console wars. People shouldn't jump to declaring winners too soon, I remember saying so to Tigger on Blu-ray earlier this year here (he said the war was over) and I would say the same to anyone now suggesting HD DVD will win... Let's see how it plays out.

Last edited by jtsiren on 22-Aug-2007 at 07:54 AM.

@MikeB

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MikeB wrote: Back on topic, 360 failures seem to be on the increase again, this related to a new game called Bioshock, later more on that. Tell your kids not to do this (From Kotagu): "Apparently, a 14 year-old North Carolina boy was almost killed trying to keep his Xbox 360 from overheating. According to local news, the boy's mother found her son unconscious after he attempted to submerge the console in a pan of water. "When I left to go next door he was playing a game but when I got back he was laying on his back on the floor and unconscious," she said. The console, wrapped in plastic and tape, was still plugged in. The kid has read online that he could keep his 360 from over heating by cooling its power supply. By the time the ambulance showed up, the boy had regained consciousness. Thankfully, when the ambulance arrived, the boy had regained his senses. He was rushed to a nearby hospital and suffered small burns on his hand and foot. "

Ah, reminds me of the good old days before I got my 128D when I used to hang my C64 psu out the window in the dead of a New England winter.

Anyway, you can't blame a customer's stupidity or poor parenting on Microsoft... I can't wait to see some PS3 owner putting some patties on his PS3 - George Foreman grill style... ;)

@MikeB

Businesses encourage other businesses --- AP also reports that Sony is paying a fee to have its Blu-ray player featured in the end-of-aisle display. So it appears Sony may be 'bribing' the retailers to push their format.

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Both formats use identical codecs, so it makes no sense from a competitive business standpoint to lock out a larger market with better specs to a minority inferior legacy technology with a smaller userbase from a compettive market perspective.

This is business. Looking at the angle one take may be -- take the $100M, push HD-DVD and if it dies in 3 years then sell the same person a Blu-Ray, effectively increasing your movie sale because now the person owns the DVD, HD-DVD, and Blu-Ray.

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Sony doesn't own Blu-Ray.

Sony dropped Blu-Ray licensing fees?

I have both formats here they're fairly comparable. There's 2 compelling reasons for HD-DVD for me. First is interactivity. Second the stupid PS3 design that means no IR and no universal remotes. (And yes there's some work arounds the best one for me is just buy the HD-DVD instead.)

I'm with jtsiren the HD 'war' isn't going to be over anytime soon.


GETTING BACK towards the topic. I loved your Xbox360 posting. Overheating is of course Microsoft's fault. The incredible stupidity of a person that tosses an electric object in water is his Mom's fault -- either bad genes or bad upbringing.

@BrianK

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Businesses encourage other businesses --- AP also reports that Sony is paying a fee to have its Blu-ray player featured in the end-of-aisle display.

There's nothing malicious about that. If XBox 360s would be required to be placed in less than ideal spots as a requirement it would.

But according to the NY times the exclusivilty deal is only for 18 months.

"Paramount and DreamWorks Animation together will receive about $150 million in financial incentives for their commitment to HD DVD, according to two Viacom executives with knowledge of the deal but who asked not to be identified."

"The two studios may have left themselves wiggle room, however. Paramount’s agreement to use only HD DVD is limited to only 18 months. And Paramount noted that no films directed by Steven Spielberg were included in the deal “as his films are not exclusive to either format.” Mr. Spielberg is a co-founder of DreamWorks SKG, a unit of Paramount."

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I'm with jtsiren the HD 'war' isn't going to be over anytime soon.

Actually that's what I stated months ago as well, so you're with me on this as well.
But Blu-Ray cannot die, even PSP movies aren't dead.

Off topic:

I'am following Sony Europe's conference right now. Many interesting things, but most interesting to me:

Almost half of PAL PS3 users are online, indicating a userbase of around 1.3-1.4 million for PAL regions right now. According to Sony selling faster than the PS2, which would be fantastic considering it's about twice the launch price. Top selling PSN game in PAL regions so far is Tekken 5: DR with over 100 thousand sales (get Super Stardust HD now, if you haven't already!).

Sony did listen to my advice () from many full moons ago! Sony is going to release a dual-TV-tuner PS3 device for Europe, the device is about the size of a sunglass box. The PS3 DVR (HDTV +PAL support) will fully multitask, meaning you will be able to watch DVB TV on the road using your PSP (!), while simultaneously recording movies using your recording sheduler, while also using the PS3 for other purposes, all simultaneously! (Available early 2008)



Also apparently Fifa 2008 will be EA's first game to use the Cell's SPEs.

Last edited by MikeB on 22-Aug-2007 at 07:29 PM.
Last edited by MikeB on 22-Aug-2007 at 06:56 PM.

Food for thought:

Sony Europe:

On to PS2. "Sales of hardware and software continue to exceed all our expectations."

"And it's still outselling our dear colleagues Xbox 360 weekly by a ratio of three to one."

@MikeB

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Sony is going to release a dual-TV-tuner PS3 device for Europe

I really can't think of a worse device to do this on. Harddrives are the least reliable portion of hardware. Having content on a single harddrive is bad, IMO. Redundant reliable RAID hardware would be a much desired upgrade to include with the dual tuner.

It'll be interesting to see how this impacts gaming. Perhaps that's why they are using 7 of the SPEs and 1 out of the 7 for the OS. This might allow gameplay and videorecording at the same time.

@BrianK

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I really can't think of a worse device to do this on. Harddrives are the least reliable portion of hardware. Having content on a single harddrive is bad, IMO. Redundant reliable RAID hardware would be a much desired upgrade to include with the dual tuner.

Erm, this is consumer electronics - not a server!

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It'll be interesting to see how this impacts gaming. Perhaps that's why they are using 7 of the SPEs and 1 out of the 7 for the OS. This might allow gameplay and videorecording at the same time.

That's been theorised for quite some time.

Recent rumours are suggesting the 7th SPE is about the be freed up for use in games, it'll only be part time but better than before. More memory is becoming available as well, it's already dropped but apparently OS usage is now down to 72MB on the latest dev kit upgrades.


As for the BluRay / HD-DVD thing, I think the new deal is only going to drag things on longer, I still expect BluRay will win but it's just going to take longer. I like the way the inq has presented it:

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The deal is limited to 18 months which means that Paramount is off the hook if it all goes pear-shaped. If Blu-ray becomes the accepted standard in the meantime then Paramount has had its profits all nicely guaranteed during the tricky period where no-one knows who will win. It is a bit like betting on a horse and having your winnings guaranteed even if you lose.

All it means to me is I can't buy movies from those studios for at least 18 months, except that is for Spielberg's films, they will be released on BluRay. Oh well, I guess I'll just get the Blade Runner final edition in the meantime...

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Whyzzat?

@minator

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Erm, this is consumer electronics - not a server!

Yup that's a weakness for TV in this house. We record something we want to see it a RAID gives us an extra data security option. Once the TIVO lost it's harddrive. I replaced it and the TIVO was promptly dropped for a device that has RAID to ensure no loss of data. No more listening to the family complain if something breaks and they can't get to last week's ever important recorded reality show. I like the family not complaining.

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Oh well, I guess I'll just get the Blade Runner final edition in the meantime

That's a problem here I have all 3 players do I really want all 3 versions? Certainly not the ultra special collectors edition with spinner for all 3. Though HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray version would make an interesting comparison.

@MikeB

As weekly data from vgchartz.com shows, the Nintendo Wii game console outsold Microsoft’s Xbox 360 by a margin of 2.3:1 worldwide on average each week since its release in November, 2006, selling at an even faster rate than the most successful console ever created, Sony’s PlayStation 2. As of 8/23 the Wii has pulled into first place with a 41.6% market share, followed closely by the 360's 41% market share and a distant third is Sony's PS3 with a 17% share.

@BrianK

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@MikeB 'The PS3 managaged to outsell the PS2 the last 2 weeks: Worldwide sales according to VGCharts for the last two reported weeks: PS3:............... 205,592 PS2:............... 205,389' Appears VGCharts has made some changes to the #s. Here's what they have now ending Aug 4/5 PS3: 96156 PS2: 101239 Aug 11/12 PS3: 94431 PS2: 100953

I just had the time to do a recount, the problem is that you've compared two different weeks than I have. I used the week prior, however VGChartz did slightly adjust their figures, but they actually upped the PS3 count and downed the PS2 count. The data for the week which ended 11/12 wasn't available yet when I posted my message.

According VGChartz the PS3 outsold the PS2 for those two weeks by more than 3000 units globally.

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Aug-2007 at 10:02 AM.

@BrianK

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As weekly data from vgchartz.com shows, the Nintendo Wii game console outsold Microsoft’s Xbox 360 by a margin of 2.3:1 worldwide on average each week since its release in November, 2006

I applaud the Wii outselling the XBox 360 considerably, I hope Nintendo and Sony will continue to marginakize Microsoft's marketshare considering M$ have gone cheap on its consumers by releasing a seriously flawed console.

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selling at an even faster rate than the most successful console ever created, Sony’s PlayStation 2.

To put this into perspective, the newer PSOne outsold the PS2 initially as well. Likewise have the SEGA Dreamcast, Nintendo 64, Super Nintendo and even the Nintendo GameCube outperformed the PS2 and PSX during the first months of availability.

One thing can be said about Playstations, they didn't sell amazingly well since day one, but sales increased gradually in course of time, the consoles had legs so to speak. IMO this all just underlines how early we still are for this generation.

The Nintendo Wii has the advantage of an entry price tag below the PS2 launch price and the GameCube got retired unlike the PSOne at the time and today unlike the PS2.

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As of 8/23 the Wii has pulled into first place with a 41.6% market share, followed closely by the 360's 41% market share and a distant third is Sony's PS3 with a 17% share.

The Nintendo Wii doesn't really have a 41% marketshare for the home console market. You conpletely neglect the PS2, which even in the US is being played on well more than the GameCube, Wii, XBox and XBox 360 (half the playtime of the original XBox last June) combined.

Food for thought:

- The PS2 has outsold the XBox 360 ever since the XBox 360's release.
- PS2 + PS3 (PS2 compatible) sales combined is > Nintendo Wii sales since release.

Summary of XBox 360 vs Playstation sales for the last 4 weeks according to VGChartz:

29 July:

1) PS3 - 106,760
2) PS2 - 102,835
3) X360 - 61,762

4/5 August:

1) PS2 - 99,791
2) PS3 - 99,126
2) X360 - 61,899

11/12 August

1) PS2 - 100,126
2) PS3 - 99,026
3) X360 - 78, 441 (North American price drop at end of week)

18/19 August

1) PS2 - 102,289
2) PS3 - 97,183
3) X360 - 85,533

Seriously, the XBox 360 should have done a lot better for its second year on the market. The console's first year (maybe due to lack of HD competitors and premature death of the original XBox) was quite good overall (super in US, bad in Japan), but according to VGChartz so far the PS3 performs slightly better during its first year on the market and this at a higher entry price.

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Aug-2007 at 10:24 AM.

MikeB wrote:

Quote:

Back on topic, 360 failures seem to be on the increase again, this related to a new game called Bioshock, later more on that.

A sizeable minority of XBox 360 users are reporting random freezes and quite a few of them are suffering RRoD incidents. All of Kotagu's editors have now suffered at least one RRoD incident:

"The exciting and inevitable conclusion to the my-Xbox-360-starting-freezing post! On Saturday night, after playing the BioShock demo to death, I decided to fire up some Gears of War. I played for ten minutes and then it moved on from this world, leaving Red Rings of Death as a memento. To recap: I got the "checkerboard effect," and the next time I switched on a disc-based game, the box konked out."

NeoGAF members reporting dead XBox 360s after playing Bioshock:

NeoGAF user 1: BioShock killed my 3rd 360

"You unreliable piece of ****. Yes, 3 hours into BioShock, my 360 froze for the 2nd time (1st time froze 30sec into the game), and then I turned it back on to the lights of death.

The ironic part of all this is that I have EB Games warranties, so every time I replace my 360 at EB, MS gets an extra sale."

NeoGAF user 2: "BioShock just broke my launch 360, too... I didn't even get past the main menu. I've restarted it about a dozen times now. The first few times it was 3RROD. Then it booted up fine again. Then it carshed. One more 3RROD. Started to boot to the 360 logo, would crash and freeze in the middle (No 3RROD) for a few times. Now I get nothing at all. It simply boots up, no lights except the power symbol. The system just turns on, fans increasingly gets louder, and absolutely nothing.

So, now I'm thinking I won't be able to get this repaired for free, because I don't get the 3RROD anymore.

:|"


NeoGAF user 3: "You have got to be kidding me.I just got Bio Shock and Blue Dragon comes out next week and I go to play Bio Shock and I am greeted with this"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v322/cmagus/death-1.jpg

NeoGAF user 4:"o RROD, but I'm getting this #### all over my screen now. So, is my 360 gone now? Anyway, I have an EB warranty on it so I guess I'll get it replaced tomorrow...

FUUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCKKKKKKKKKKKKKK. I wanted to play this tonight. That's what I get for getting the game early.

"Things Break." No ####. MS why have you forsaken meeeeeeeeeeeeeee?!"
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/purgeface/DSC00798.jpg

NeoGAF user 5: "So I bought Bioshock today and played about as far as the demo goes. Had dinner, went back to it, and the game wouldn't load. Now the game either wont read or it gets an unreadable message after the title screen. So i started trying other games. When I load NCAA or Oblivion, I get a white screen with Japanese text that tells me I need to put the disk in a 360 (no S^$^)."

NeoGAF user 6: "Fuck, my 3-ring of death cherry popped...again.

Right when I ####in got Bioshock.

Anyway, I'm doing the towel routine. To see if that works. Any advice on how long and how the system should be set-up before doing that?

Also, I bought the 360 -- the 1st one broke, I bought a 2yr. warrenty for that one, used it to get my 2nd one -- which just broke right now, like 2 minutes ago. The exchange for the second one took place 1.15.07 -- it is now 8.21.07"

NeoGAF user 7: "I was playing Bioshock on my new Elite using my old 20gig HD (transfer kit ordered). About 30 minutes into the game, I got the dreaded "DIRTY DISC ERROR" and got kicked. When I tried to reboot the game, Bioshock would get to the title screen, then give me the Dirty Disc Blade of Damnation. It did this four times before I contemplated hammer therapy on my new Elite."

People are also experience problems with the PC version, mostly these are driver related though, but in one case a motherboard blew up. Also the PC version only allows for two activations even on the same hardware.

But I heard the game is actually quite good, I will probably wait for the PS3 version which should hopefully be based on the new SPE enabled Unreal Engine currently under development for the PS3 by Sony and Epic.

Last edited by MikeB on 24-Aug-2007 at 12:35 PM.

@MikeB

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People are also experience problems with the PC version, mostly these are driver related though, but in one case a motherboard blew up.

That it not in any way the game's fault. Tell the user not to use el-cheapo motherboards with completely crap coolers.

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Also the PC version only allows for two activations even on the same hardware.

Not really surprising nowadays. Other stuff only allow for a single activation.

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@everyone

The thread is now back on-topic, would you please stick to console failures from now on?

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