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Trixie 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 6:59:56
#1201 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1939
From: Czech Republic

@Xenic

All recent Silverstone cases have USB3 ports; I had to buy an adaptor cable for the GD-09 to house my X5000, so yes, I know and am prepared

_________________
Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 10:42:05
#1202 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5379
From: UK

@Trixie

Surely the X5000+ at least will be upgraded to have USB 3 ports? Or is USB 2 a standard like the Paula chip that can never be replaced?

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smf 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 11:49:32
#1203 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 15-Mar-2003
Posts: 304
From: Vxj, Sweden

@BigD

the usb controller is integrated in the cpu so unless the cpu is upgraded usb will stay the same.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 11:50:18
#1204 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5379
From: UK

@smf

Wow!!
Progress is like the stagnant Paula chip in the 1990s!

_________________
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KimmoK 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 11:53:14
#1205 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@BigD

I think we do not yet have drivers for USB3?
And PCIe USB3 adapters can be bought for about 30, so I imagine it would be smarter to have USB3 card rather than do another motherboard (&double the price of the board to get R&D investment back).

And btw. Paula is well enough for 98% of use-cases, IMO.

(Only for professional Audio workstations or for 3D audio one would need more. )

More interesting development would be x5000lite with some cost reductions implemented.
(MicroATX or mini-DTX)
(but that would step on the toes of A1222)

Last edited by KimmoK on 18-Nov-2019 at 12:01 PM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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Rose 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 12:17:19
#1206 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Nov-2009
Posts: 707
From: Unknown

@BigD

USB 3.0 standard is just turned 11 years old yesterday. Can't have that newfangled stuff on Amigas.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 13:15:59
#1207 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5379
From: UK

@KimmoK

Since Paula also held back the AGA Amiga machines adopting the HD Floppy standard I'd say it badly needed updating with at least 8 channel sound!

Updated Paula, 030, Fast Ram and Chunky to Planar support might have saved the Amiga in 1992/93. Basically they needed an Atari Falcon spec machine with faster bus speed and Amiga technology

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mr2 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 14:21:08
#1208 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 657
From: Poland

@KimmoK



Quote:
I think we do not yet have drivers for USB3?


USB3 support for AmigaOS 4.x was demoed by some Italians many years ago but since then, silence...

EDIT: http://www.amigans.net/modules/xforum/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5637&forum=3&post_id=75314

Last edited by mr2 on 18-Nov-2019 at 02:25 PM.

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bison 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 17:01:55
#1209 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Dec-2007
Posts: 1643
From: N-Space

@Trixie

That's a nice case. The new A2000. I think I might use it for my next build, unless I can somehow coordinate my next build with the availability of a Checkmate case.

It's really hard to find desktop cases nowadays. Most searches for "desktop case" on Newegg, Amazon, etc. bring up a list of towers.

Last edited by bison on 18-Nov-2019 at 05:03 PM.

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recedent 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 18:45:27
#1210 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 28-Jan-2010
Posts: 225
From: Tarnw

@BigD

Quote:
Updated Paula, 030, Fast Ram and Chunky to Planar support might have saved the Amiga in 1992/93.


They would have dragged it down even faster IMO. Nobody wanted three times more expensive A1200.

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 19:38:28
#1211 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5379
From: UK

@recedent

Well considering those specs were required to feasibly port Doom to the Amiga base machine on the same number of floppy disks as the PC I maintain that's what was needed.

Most of the A500 brigade never upgraded to a A1200 anyway and hung around pirating games until Worms in 1995! They may have upgraded in large numbers if the Amiga AGA machines had Doom.

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Kronos 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 19:41:16
#1212 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2209
From: Unknown

@recedent

*shrug*

Don't think going 20->30 would have made much difference price wise. Bit also not performance wise without upping the clockspeed.

Splitting the 2MB Chip to 1/1MB Chip/Fast would have made an huge impact and the clockport could have gotten it's indented use.

Proper planar modes would have needed development into the chipset and that would a waste of time and money at that point. AAA/Nyx would have been a total t### compared to even budget PCI cards in 95.....

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Trixie 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 20:40:23
#1213 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 1-Sep-2003
Posts: 1939
From: Czech Republic

@bison

Quote:
That's a nice case. The new A2000. I think I might use it for my next build, unless I can somehow coordinate my next build with the availability of a Checkmate case. It's really hard to find desktop cases nowadays.

I stick with Silverstone cases (so far I've owned three different models) because I prefer the desktop format - for me, it has stronger Amiga associations than the tower. The GD09 is nice and well designed but it's a bit bulky for my liking. Unfortunately, it's the smallest desktop case Silverstone has for a full ATX board. Too bad A-EON abandoned the original prototype of the X5000/Cyrus, which was a microATX board. The choice of a case would be much wider now, as there are very nice HTPC-style cases for the microATX form-factor such as the ML03, which currently houses my Sam440ep-Flex.

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Smoke me a kipper, I'll be back for breakfast!

AmigaOne X5000/020 @ 2GHz / 4GB RAM / Radeon RX 560 / ESI Juli@ / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition
SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

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billt 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 20:43:06
#1214 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3154
From: Maryland, USA

@mr2

Quote:
USB3 support for AmigaOS 4.x was demoed by some Italians many years ago but since then, silence...


Is the USB driver API public? We really need all driver APIs and includes etc. to be public so that someone, somewhere, can make drivers for things...

Last edited by billt on 19-Nov-2019 at 03:35 AM.
Last edited by billt on 19-Nov-2019 at 03:34 AM.

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salass00 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 18-Nov-2019 21:36:00
#1215 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 31-Oct-2003
Posts: 2702
From: Finland

@billt

Yes, it is (for several years now).

There is a PDF on how to write USB function drivers in "SDK:Documentation/Developer Info/USB", as well as the usual autodoc documentation, header files and so on.

In addition to the example codes in SDK:Examples/USB, some mouse and keyboard drivers are also available on OS4Depot with source code:

http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=driver/input/rmouse.lzx
http://os4depot.net/?function=showfile&file=driver/input/rkeyboard.lzx

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billt 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 19-Nov-2019 0:17:31
#1216 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3154
From: Maryland, USA

@salass00

What about the usb host controller driver that a keyboard or mouse or whatevwr plugs into? The TI Tusb7340 driver, or the Asmedia asm1153 or asm1142 driver, or the nec/renesas μPD720202 driver?

OK, had a chance to dust off an SDK and found this in usbhcd autodocs. But that seems to support up to USB2 440Mbps speed, no USN3.x SuperSpeed stuff seems present.

Quote:
ti_Data is a ULONG holding a speed indicator:
USB_SPEED_LOW for a LowSpeed Function (1.5 Mb/s).
USB_SPEED_FULL for a FullSpeed Function (12 Mb/s).
USB_SPEED_HIGH for a HighSpeed Function (480 Mb/s).


Not in the autodoc, but the usb/system.h include file to some degree supports the first superspeed level:
Quote:
#define USB_SPEED_LOW (0L) /* 1.5 Mbit/s */
#define USB_SPEED_FULL (1L) /* 12 Mbit/s */
#define USB_SPEED_HIGH (2L) /* 480 Mbit/s */
#define USB_SPEED_SUPER (3L) /* 4800 Mbit/s */


I do not see anything anywhere about 10Gbit or 20Gbit super-speeds. I would imagine that 4 and 5 would be suitable guesses for those values, should the system ever come to be aware of them... Maybe call them USB_SPEED_SUPER10G and USB_SPEED_SUPER20G?

Last edited by billt on 19-Nov-2019 at 05:44 AM.
Last edited by billt on 19-Nov-2019 at 04:04 AM.
Last edited by billt on 19-Nov-2019 at 03:35 AM.

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Rob 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 19-Nov-2019 0:37:25
#1217 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 5917
From: S.Wales

@BigD

Quote:
The point is there WILL be an official case but no decision has been made


A-EON will probably supply pre-built systems in a Fractal Designs case, most likely the Core 500 or the core 1100. The Core 500 is an ITX case and looks like a stubby version of the X5000 case while 1100 is a Micro ATX tower which relocates it's ports, LEDs and buttons to the front and doesn't have a ventilated top cover but it retails for about 10 cheaper.

I suspect they'll go for the 1100 since the goal of the A1222 is to provide a lower cost system. It's a decent enough looking case and most people wanting a pre-built system will be satisfied with it.

Quote:
and therefore people can't decide whether they NEED to upgrade to the premium Stephen Jones cases! Sad.


You will be able to buy just the board and OS so people who have ordered or received an A1500+ case will be fine and ordering is now closed until February when Stephen hopes to be able to supply from stock.

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KimmoK 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 19-Nov-2019 7:08:43
#1218 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@BigD

"Since Paula also held back the AGA Amiga machines adopting the HD Floppy standard "

?
My Amiga4000 had/has a HD floppy.

"I'd say it badly needed updating with at least 8 channel sound!"

I can use 14bit output and tens of channels on my Amiga4000 via paula.

16bit audio would give mainly more chrisp/clear high frequencies.
(I do not have "golden ears", I find Paula's audio still insanely good via high quality amplifier & Jamo 15" speakers.)

IIRC AAA was nearly ready for release when CBM desided to go with AGA.
But RTA (ReTargetableAudio) as a standard would have been even more important for audio.

"Updated Paula, 030, Fast Ram and Chunky to Planar support might have saved the Amiga in 1992/93."

I disagree.

CBM was making big loss because of their failure in PC sales, Amiga had little/nothing to do with that. Nothing would have saved "Amiga" when CBM was badly managed.

When AAA was not going to be released they should have delivered RTG in AOS3.1 and equip every Amiga with FAST RAM. FAST RAM nearly doubles the CPU performance of A1200 and CD32.
As we can see AGA amigas are capable of running DOOM and Quake.

RTA+RTG+HDD+FAST RAM would have been important improvements for A1200 product.

Instead they messed up via delivering A500+, A600 and systems with too limited resources as standard.

Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Nov-2019 at 07:09 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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KimmoK 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 19-Nov-2019 7:23:38
#1219 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5188
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@Kronos

"AAA/Nyx would have been a total t### compared to even budget PCI cards in 95"

IIRC, AAA was nearing completion when CBM delivered AGA in 1992.
AAA would have been perfect for the market when A1200 and A4000 were being sold by CBM.

In 1995/96 my AGA Amiga was many ways far more capable in graphics than basic Windos PC (Just not it chunky modes or in flicker-free-high-res.).

(Had to get P75+win95 to sanily finalize my graduation thesis work with LabWindows, at work (Nokia) we had only 486/66 win3.11. My P75 PC could do 24bit only in 640x400 while AGA gave better 262144colors at 1480x580, my P75 could not have audio in games because my sound card worked only via win95 and win95 had no games. Mainstream multimedia kiosk systems had 256colors @ 640x400 and 15fps animations, LOL!!!)

(IIRC, P75 cost me worth ~1200 in 1995/96, 060 for A4k cost me the same around 1997/98 )

A little peek at y1995:
http://www.retrogameon.com/2015/12/retro-scan-c1995-harvey-norman-pc-advert.html

Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Nov-2019 at 07:36 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Nov-2019 at 07:32 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Nov-2019 at 07:26 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 19-Nov-2019 at 07:24 AM.

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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

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BigD 
Re: Trevor's Amiga Blog
Posted on 19-Nov-2019 8:11:32
#1220 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5379
From: UK

@KimmoK

A4000 HD floppies were a kludge running at half speed to give Paula the ability to keep pace! CBM didn't bother with the kludge in the A1200 and hence ALL AGA software came on DD disks not HD ones! Embarassing!

The sound sutuation was another kludge. The SNES was able to supercede Paula in the ears of gamers because of extra channels. Many Amiga games had sound effects / music tracks only.

And you argue this was all fine!

Last edited by BigD on 19-Nov-2019 at 08:13 AM.
Last edited by BigD on 19-Nov-2019 at 08:13 AM.

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