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PosterThread
Hyperion-Director 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 10-Apr-2021 17:01:46
#1141 ]
New Member
Joined: 27-Mar-2021
Posts: 7
From: Unknown

@Rose

Really? Prior to September 30, 2009 that would have been a valid statement.

Having said that, there is also the question of resources both human and financial.

AmigaOS is a 32 bit big Endian oriented operating system, be it 68K or PPC.

Moving to x86, ARM or even RISC-V would be no small feat as these are little endian. It can be done of course - technically.

Unless we move to 64 bit and the whole issue becomes moot but again, this would require a massive investment.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 10-Apr-2021 17:27:22
#1142 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11059
From: In the village

@thread

Rose Quote:
What people seem to have forgotten is N+1 posts by Ben where he says that they can't port OS4 to X since they have license only for PPC....


Hyperion-Director Quote:
Really? Prior to September 30, 2009 that would have been a valid statement.


Hyperionmp Quote:
Then there are some legal issues like some licences being tied to PPC only.


Source 2011

Perhaps ^ that is the area of confusion?

#6

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Mobileconnect 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 10-Apr-2021 17:27:44
#1143 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 13-Jun-2003
Posts: 378
From: Unknown

@Hyperion-Director

Welcome. I didn't expect after all this time you would directly speak to the users. And I appreciate you have to be careful what you say because of subjudice.

So you don't have to say anything in reply. But please read what I have to say.

There are many trolls here, and many who will likely be angry at you rightly or wrongly, without knowing the full story. Please ignore the trolls.

OS4 is a great product. The product vision and technical direction is, in my humble opinion, truly 'Amiga'. If it wasn't we'd have all switched to MorphOS by now. OS3.1.4 is also great. And I excitedly look forward to 3.2.

I know the old Amiga Inc guys were a waste of time and space. I met them and talked with them at industry conferences in the early 2000s. They were idiots. I don't blame you for negotiating hard with them, it was necessary.

I also have great respect for Mike at Cloanto. From what I can tell he has tried to pull everything back together into one entity. He has supported Amiga development all this time, as have you, when almost everyone else gave up. I implore you both to stop wasting time and energy fighting in the courts, even if that may be your instinct because you are a professional lawyer, and to find a way to work together for the greater good. There is still a little money to be made here, not much, but a bit, and surely there won't be any at all if you keep fighting.

A coming together of what you can both offer, with the aim of finishing what you started and some hope of at least breaking even on everything you've invested is the only possible good outcome. There is no other outcome for either of you that doesn't leave you both worse off.

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A1200 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 10-Apr-2021 21:57:37
#1144 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-May-2003
Posts: 3063
From: Westhall, UK

@Hyperion-Director

Didn't take you long to stop getting back to the real work!

Your lawyer level knowledge of AmigaOS just written out on the postage stamp which is your last post, I don't understand why you care about Amiga and are basically a talking head and supposedly the guy with the cash to pay developers who actually know about AmigaOS but even then you fail to keep that responsibility up by not paying those who did work in good faith.

From the companies who acquired Amiga rights through the C= bankruptcy and basically squandered any chance of striking a new credible Amiga whilst there was a chance, through to the likes of ego maniacs like you and Bill McEwan, you play on the Amiga faithful who blindly follow, expecting something like the second coming.

I have no skin in this - MorphOS, AROS, OS4, all interesting but nothing ground-breaking like the magic that was weaved when they built the Amiga - it really did die in April 1994 and its only the goodwill then the naivety of Amiga users and developers who let this horror show continue year after year by giving you just enough income to declare there is a viable business to be run and protected at any cost. You are the great pretender, Ben - Steve Jobs you are not mate!

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 0:08:18
#1145 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1636
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Hyperion-Director

Quote:

Moving to x86, ARM or even RISC-V would be no small feat as these are little endian. It can be done of course - technically.


Technically, on ARM, you can chose what endian mode you wish to use, you can even chose between two big-endian modes on many of them. And this isn't new - I maintained binary packages for Gentoo Linux on big-endian ARM (started on Linksys NSLU2, Intel XScale IXP420) since 2004 or so.

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 0:14:31
#1146 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1636
From: Trondheim, Norway

@Mobileconnect

Quote:
without knowing the full story


These words, by now, fall under same category as "two more weeks" and "when it's ready" - it has become a cliché.

Usually when so called full stories have been ... uhm.. disclosed, they have turned out to be even more lame and vile than what even the worst trolls could make up.

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NutsAboutAmiga 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 1:07:46
#1147 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Jun-2004
Posts: 11649
From: Norway

@kolla

You also need to support GPU, “ARM mali”, without you won’t have accelerated video, or anything. The Raspberry Pi compute 4 comes with one single slot 1 x PCIe, so that’s pretty slow.
I guess GPU memory is pretty limited, you pretty sure be limited to mobile games.

You need completely different driver, I guess be like starting almost at scratch, to support it, so that be lot of work for someone like Hans.

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Apr-2021 at 01:15 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Apr-2021 at 01:14 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Apr-2021 at 01:12 AM.
Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 11-Apr-2021 at 01:11 AM.

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Samurai_Crow 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 1:26:47
#1148 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 18-Jan-2003
Posts: 2275
From: Minnesota, USA

@NutsAboutAmiga

The RasPi Compute Unit 4 has on-chip graphics acceleration independent of the PCIe bus. It's a system-on-chip configuration, not a discrete CPU.

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 5:25:55
#1149 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 888
From: Kansas

Quote:

Hyperion-Director wrote:
Correction: all 3 Cloanto entities (Cloanto IT srl, Cloanto Corp and C-A Acquisition filed a lawsuit against Hyperion in Brussels Belgium in 2019, a case which dragged on for almost 1 year to force Hyperion into judicial liquidation and dissolution.

This is the equivalent in legal terms of nuking from orbit.


Speculative. However, we do know what happens when a small business that can't afford a lawsuit runs out of money. A good example of the result is the 2009 settlement agreement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. Of course, Hyperion did not start that lawsuit either and is as innocent as an angel. The Hyperion devs are probably trying to nuke Hyperion from orbit too. How could all these Hyperion contracts be so unclear yet the 2009 settlement agreement was written with such perfection for Hyperion's benefit?

Quote:

As a result, 2 Hyperion shareholders (i.e. Timothy De Groote and myself) were required to convert their liquid debts Hyperion had towards us into new (rather illiquid new shares) as part of a capital increase.


Hyperion debt is liquid? Timothy can take Hyperion IOUs down to the grocery store and buy a loaf of bread? He can sell the IOU anywhere and get nearly full value of the debt because of Hyperion's great reputation?

Quote:

This "conversion" and resulting captal increase was carried out on the basis of a report by an independent chartered auditor who verified that these debts which were converted as part of this capital increase, were on a "cash basis" only by verifying all bankstatements over the course of years.

Amusing how this was spun into a story that outstanding legal fees were converted to new shares to prop up our net value when there are no legal fees invoiced by myself to Hyperion.


Did your percentage of Hyperion stock ownership increase as the percentages of other shareholders decreased due to dilution?

Quote:

Only amounts actually paid as taxed cash advances by myself and Timothy (total was 398.960 EUR) by way of shareholders' cash advances to Hyperion, were converted into new shares after the independent auditor reviewed all bank statements of Hyperion and filed a report to this effect with the Court of Commerce.


Was Hyperion really so poor that it couldn't use petty cash or write checks for such tiny amounts? How does Hyperion avoid bankruptcy with such little cash?

Quote:

Anybody in his right mind will understand that this would never have happened, converting taxed cash into illiquid shares, unless it was required to fend off the attempt by the Cloanto entities to nuke Hyperion out of existence.


Again, speculative. Also, it is common for money used to buy stock to already have been taxed, sometimes more than once.

Quote:

All of this was quite prejudicial to the Hyperion shareholders.


Stock dilution is usually a bad thing for shareholders as ownership percentages are reduced. What was your percentage of Hyperion stock ownership before and after issuing new stock?

Quote:

Needless to say, this would however NOT have happened if it had not been for the Cloanto parties lawsuit to force Hyperion into liquidation.

Which obviously failed as the case was dismissed by the Court of Commerce in Belgium.


Normally, business men hate endless lawsuits while lawyers love them. It sounds like someone is getting nervous about the war even as victory is claimed in the first battle (wars are usually won by the side with the most resources). If you are so close to "liquidation" then sell everything AmigaOS related. You should know that would be better for shareholders than waiting until it is too late.

Last edited by matthey on 11-Apr-2021 at 05:27 AM.

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 5:50:39
#1150 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 888
From: Kansas

Rose Quote:
What people seem to have forgotten is N+1 posts by Ben where he says that they can't port OS4 to X since they have license only for PPC....


Hyperion-Director Quote:
Really? Prior to September 30, 2009 that would have been a valid statement.


Hyperionmp Quote:
Then there are some legal issues like some licences being tied to PPC only.


#6 Quote:

Source 2011

Perhaps ^ that is the area of confusion?


Perhaps Hyperion also understood the 2009 settlement agreement to pertain to PPC only as Bill McEwen claims. It's a good thing those licenses weren't needed for 68k AmigaOS 3.1.4.

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LadyJane 
Re: Amiga Corp. gets back Amiga trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 6:02:37
#1151 ]
New Member
Joined: 5-Aug-2019
Posts: 4
From: Unknown

@Hyperion-Director

Welcome!

Quote:
all 3 Cloanto entities


I can see how referring to Amiga as a Cloanto entity fits your narrative, but it is akin to saying that Square is a Twitter entity because they have the same co-owner and CEO, or that Tesla is a SpaceX entity for the same reason, or that Hyperion is an A-EON entity (Trevor Dickinson being a shareholder and money lender of both).

As we have you here, why did you block the 2019 Amiga acquisition by not signing it off per paragraph 24 of the 2009 settlement agreement? The whole Amiga world has been waiting for more than two years, with many players paralyzed due to this. Why would Hyperion want that? That's the only reason I see for these other companies (Cloanto, Amino, ITEC, KMOS) still having to be involved.

Quote:
a case which dragged on for almost 1 year to force Hyperion into judicial liquidation and dissolution.

This is the equivalent in legal terms of nuking from orbit.

As a result, 2 Hyperion shareholders (i.e. Timothy De Groote and myself) were required to convert their liquid debts Hyperion had towards us into new (rather illiquid new shares) as part of a capital increase.


You mean, your capital increase, like your late filing of accounts, were not required by Belgian law?

Perhaps you can correct me, but my understanding of what happened is:

- Hyperion had its business license revoked for failing to file accounts for several years
- After it finally filed those accounts, the tax people (not Amiga or Cloanto) saw that Hyperion was in breach of the new Belgian Companies Code, which set a minimum requirement for the net company assets (thus requiring the capital increase)
- Amiga and Cloanto went after Hyperion (after all, you sued them while you were radiated and were not allowed to file any lawsuits), but the tax people did too, and you had to cure a situation that you created, not that others created

You blame others, but this seems more like the equivalent in legal terms of cheating until you get caught!

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LadyJane 
Re: Amiga Corp. gets back Amiga trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 6:39:07
#1152 ]
New Member
Joined: 5-Aug-2019
Posts: 4
From: Unknown

@Hyperion-Director

One more thing.

Quote:
Anybody in his right mind will understand that this would never have happened, converting taxed cash into illiquid shares, unless it was required to fend off the attempt by the Cloanto entities to nuke Hyperion out of existence.


Why don't you tell everyone that the capital increase was prepared by an audit firm in 2018, while Amiga and Cloanto pointing that aspect out only happened in 2019, well after the Belgian tax authorities had already found out, forcing you to take action?

Quote:
All of this was quite prejudicial to the Hyperion shareholders.


If so, they should be happy to learn the true 2018-2019 timeline, once you stop blaming others for Hyperion's non-compliance with Belgian Law (and being caught in the act of doing so).

If there was anything prejudicial to the Hyperion shareholders (and to Amiga PPC hardware companies other than A-EON), was it not signing a secret "sign this or I go to the police" agreement that gave away for free valuable IP rights like a "worldwide, perpetual, royalty free licence to use the AmigaOne, AmigaOS and Boing Ball trademarks"?

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 8:31:08
#1153 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1636
From: Trondheim, Norway

@matthey

Quote:

Perhaps Hyperion also understood the 2009 settlement agreement to pertain to PPC only as Bill McEwen claims. It's a good thing those licenses weren't needed for 68k AmigaOS 3.1.4.


Thomas Richter once wrote that in a legal sense, OS 3.1.4 was to be viewed as OS4 for 68k, that was his way of rationalize its legality.

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kolla 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 8:55:02
#1154 ]
Super Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 1636
From: Trondheim, Norway

To quote the 3.1.4 EULA again...
Quote:

You are required to select the appropriate "Locale" setting based on the location where you will be operating the AmigaOS.

These locales say that Begium use something called BEF (or FB) as currency... I have some left overs from previous interrail trips, can I pay for OS 3.2 using the currencies used in its locales? In two weeks, when it's done? You see, I don't know the full story here...

Last edited by kolla on 11-Apr-2021 at 09:34 AM.
Last edited by kolla on 11-Apr-2021 at 08:55 AM.

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Birbo 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 12:06:02
#1155 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 5-Apr-2007
Posts: 554
From: Zurich, Switzerland

@Hyperion-Director

I have some questions:

1. Why do you post here?

2. What do you want to achieve in the near future?

3. Do you think a roundtable meeting with Trevor and Michele would be a good idea?

Thanks

_________________
Sometimes we give people a lot of credit just because they’re writing nice sentences even if it isn’t adding up to much.

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number6 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 11-Apr-2021 22:46:17
#1156 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 11059
From: In the village

@thread

in reference to these docs of April 9 mentioned prior

Document 114
Amiga parties' reply to response to motion


#6

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matthey 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 2:25:14
#1157 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2007
Posts: 888
From: Kansas

#6 Quote:

in reference to these docs of April 9 mentioned prior

Document 114
Amiga parties' reply to response to motion



The reply of the Amiga parties looks more focused and to the point based on their claim of a breach of the 2009 settlement agreement paragraph 2 (Non-Agression).

Quote:

The Amiga Parties agree and covenant that they will not institute any action,
claim or proceeding anywhere in the world against Hyperion arising out of
Hyperion’s use, marketing, licensing, or sublicensing of the Software or
AmigaOS 4 or Hyperion’s use of the Licensed Marks in connection therewith (an
“Amiga Prohibited Action”) unless the challenged activity constitutes a material
breach of this Agreement;


and

Quote:

Hyperion agrees and covenants that it will not institute any action, claim or
proceeding anywhere in the world ... (B) challenging ... (ii) ownership of the
Licensed Marks [i.e., AMIGAOS, AMIGAONE, and the Boing Ball Mark] by
any Amiga Party or any successor, or (iii) the use and/or ownership of any Amiga
Mark (other than an Exclusive Licensed Mark) by any Amiga Party or any
successor (a “Hyperion Prohibited Action”), unless the challenged activity
constitutes a material breach of this Agreement...


This is the point I considered potentially valid and grounds for termination of the 2009 settlement agreement in their motion for a partial summary judgement. I did not find where Hyperion made a good defense of these actions, especially the registration of Amiga marks which were not licensed to them. Hyperion has tried to have everything dismissed based on technicalities and contract terms very favorable to them. Ben Hermans is an "Intellectual Property litigator" with significant experience in international and U.S. litigation. His knowledge of IP litigation "intricacies" and technicalities may prove valuable or may backfire as legal counsel for Hyperion in violation of the 2009 settlement agreement which should have been aware of the "intricacies" of the contracts. The Amiga parties have the more difficult job of nearly flawlessly proving their case and the 2009 settlement agreement was very much written in Hyperion's favor. It looks to me like the Amiga parties have a valid argument but that doesn't mean it will be enough to achieve their goal of terminating the 2009 settlement agreement. I am an investor and business man where some knowledge of law is helpful but *not* a lawyer.

Last edited by matthey on 12-Apr-2021 at 02:35 AM.

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amigadave 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 3:49:14
#1158 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1684
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@number6

Quote:

number6 wrote:
@thread

Rose Quote:
What people seem to have forgotten is N+1 posts by Ben where he says that they can't port OS4 to X since they have license only for PPC....


Hyperion-Director Quote:
Really? Prior to September 30, 2009 that would have been a valid statement.


Hyperionmp Quote:
Then there are some legal issues like some licences being tied to PPC only.


Source 2011

Perhaps ^ that is the area of confusion?

#6


The thing that most liars forget, is just how difficult it is to remember all the lies they have told in the past, which is why they are always seen for who they really are, eventually.

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dalek 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 4:00:58
#1159 ]
New Member
Joined: 7-Jun-2017
Posts: 4
From: Unknown

It looks to me that claiming the mark "WORKBENCH" is enough to invalidate the settlement agreement. Goodbye Hyperion... and good riddance.

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amigadave 
Re: Cloanto acquire Amiga Inc Trademark
Posted on 12-Apr-2021 4:22:01
#1160 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2005
Posts: 1684
From: Lake Shastina, Northern Calif.

@matthey

I agree with what you wrote, and how you interpret the response from the "Amiga Parties", and hope that this ridiculous legal farce can finally be concluded, if the court will just realize the whole picture of what Ben Hermans has been doing for years, and just invalidate the 2009 agreement.

I don't know exactly what will happen after that, but I am confident that Mike from Cloanto/Amiga Inc. and the developers who actually do all the work on AmigaOS4, will work out an equitable way to move forward. We might actually see some significant progress made with AmigaOS4, when Hyperion Entertainment is finally forced out of our community. Certainly the developers will have a better chance of being compensated for their work.

Anyway, I hope that we are nearing the end of this terrible chapter, and the sooner that the Amiga community rids itself of Hyperion and Ben, the better.

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