@matthey

further on-topic discussion at EAB

#6

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#6 Quote:

further on-topic discussion at EAB

ThoR's comment is interesting coming from someone who is or was on the 68k AmigaOS development team.

https://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=1678747&postcount=11 Quote:

All I read is that a liquidator has been invoked. Well, that's the normal business. At this point, it is the responsibility of the liquidator to identify all the assets of the company, sell them to the best price and from that pay the debts of the company. Everything else is speculation, including whether or not "Hyperion" is one of the assets to be sold.

ThoR is downplaying events but it may just be his conservative personality. Bankruptcy is serious and it may involve Ben Hermans BV and Hyperion Entertainment. Once the government appointed administrator/receiver/manager is forced to take control, they are unlikely to stop at selling the minimum number of assets to satisfy the debts that forced the business into bankruptcy. There are management and sustainability issues that need to be considered. There may also be a criminal issue to consider with at least the creation of the new Ben Hermans BV and possible illegal transfer of assets to it. I can't think of any legitimate reason to create the new Ben Hermans BV.

@matthey

Care to check those links on Belgian law? heh.

A liquidator is not the same as a receiver, nor are the powers associated with the job.

I have no clue what Belgian law would say on this, but a receiver can actually liquidate the company itself, whereas a liquidator is dealing with assets.

I enjoy learning, so happy to hear any corrections, as obviously my question would be "then why appoint a receiver as opposed to a liquidator?".

#6

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#6 Quote:

Care to check those links on Belgian law? heh. A liquidator is not the same as a receiver, nor are the powers associated with the job. I have no clue what Belgian law would say on this, but a receiver can actually liquidate the company itself, whereas a liquidator is dealing with assets. I enjoy learning, so happy to hear any corrections, as obviously my question would be "then why appoint a receiver as opposed to a liquidator?".

I have not been too focused on the title of the bankruptcy administrator (administrator, receiver, liquidator, curator, manager). It could be important but there are several names in use that could be confused and lost in translation. It looks like there are 3 types of Belgium restructuring and liquidation proceedings.

1. bankruptcy (like U.S. Chapter 7 "liquidation" bankruptcy?)
2. judicial reorganization (like U.S. Chapter 11 "reorganization" bankruptcy"?)
3. voluntary liquidation

Bankruptcy has been the term used in some Amiga news sources and is most likely correct. It can be appealed for reversal which may be what successfully happened when Hyperion Entertainment was declared bankrupt before it was reversed years ago.

https://restructuring.bakermckenzie.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2016/12/Global-Restructuring-Insolvency-Guide-New-Logo-Belgium.pdf Quote:

The bankruptcy judgment can be appealed by the company itself (in cases where a third party requested the bankruptcy). Interested third parties (such as directors, shareholders, or conceivably even creditors or employees) can oppose the bankruptcy judgment. An appeal or third-party opposition has no influence on the effects of the bankruptcy judgment until it is revoked

I'm not sure if it would be possible to convert the bankruptcy to a judicial reorganization which is more complex but it may not be possible with "wrongdoing" involved.

https://restructuring.bakermckenzie.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/23/2016/12/Global-Restructuring-Insolvency-Guide-New-Logo-Belgium.pdf Quote:

If the company (or any of its bodies) commits a manifestly serious wrongdoing or has shown signs of bad faith, the court can, upon the request of any third party or the public prosecutor, appoint a provisional administrator for the term of the reorganisation. The provisional administrator replaces the existing bodies of the company.

Appeals could take a while and Ben is proficient at delay tactics judging by other Amiga related lawsuits. Wrongdoing may sabotage attempts though. Negotiations for asset sales may occur in parallel. Even if money magically appeared to pay debts, it may not be as easy to reverse the bankruptcy this time.

Last edited by matthey on 10-Apr-2024 at 12:08 AM.

After careful consideration Bones has made his assessment of the situation.

https://youtu.be/MH7KYmGnj40?si=uTWwITT9sa4_Fgeo


Why does Ben remind me of Trelane.

https://youtu.be/3EuPxeCe-zM?si=clftmQh-KFRPRYRr

The last squire of AmigaOS.

Last edited by DiscreetFX on 10-Apr-2024 at 12:55 AM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 10-Apr-2024 at 12:53 AM.
Last edited by DiscreetFX on 10-Apr-2024 at 12:52 AM.

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@matthey

Quote:

have not been too focused on the title of the bankruptcy administrator (administrator, receiver, liquidator, curator, manager)

Truly a source of confusion in a case where I believe words matter.
I noticed the main page at Amiganews showing one headline, the clicked article showing another, and the content yet a 3rd. And if people use different translators, it gets worse.

Hence why I spoke to Dutch. I'll stick with these until informed otherwise:

The literal translation of "bewindvoerder" is indeed "receiver" while the entire phrase:
"Aangewezen voorlopig bewindvoerder:" translates as "Designated provisional administrator"

I appreciate all of your research always. I also pondered whether we were talking about the difference between chapter 7 and chapter 11 (by comparison).

This is why I'm stuck on what the job responsibilities of this individual really are.

#6

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@matthey

Another place posting info:

Amibay forum

Link courtesy: arnljot

#6

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I'm sure a few of the usual suspects will have the brains to do a full repo clone of all OS sources, before they vanish into the hands of some "normie" who wipes the disks and sells the hardware :)

Or we can start fresh with OS 3.1 - again! :D

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@kolla

Quote:

Or we can start fresh with OS 3.1 - again!

That is probably the best plan. Even if the assets are sold to someone else and they manage to make some money selling licences, I am 100% certain that Ben will find a way to sue whoever got the rights to the sources so he can get a piece of the money.

It feels odd to have to explain this but in Amiga land, the only safe way to do business is to never do business with Ben himself or any assets he has been involved with in the past.

The cost to pay someone to re-do the work and re-writes that were done to 3.2 are surely a LOT CHEAPER than the potential costs to become involved in never-ending lol-suits with Ben.
And you will sleep easier at night.

Last edited by V8 on 10-Apr-2024 at 09:12 AM.

@V8

Quote:

The cost to pay someone to re-do the work and re-writes that were done to 3.2 are surely a LOT CHEAPER than the potential costs to become involved in never-ending lol-suits with Ben.

Well, truth be told it didn't cost Ben a thing to do 3.2...

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@pixie

Well, Hyperion bought Reaction from Caldi… so that will have to go. Also everthing directly ported back from OS4.

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@pixie

Quote:

pixie wrote: Well, truth be told it didn't cost Ben a thing to do 3.2...

They had a problem with the leaked OS 3.1 (leaked mean deblocked, of course) : anyone can see the original sources and continue for example...

So, they decided to make new OS versions for blocking these upgraded sources later !

That's why they claim they work for free...

The FreeMasons want to have control on the Amiga, and if you are not a FM member, they exclude you from official developer...

I repeat, nothing positive will never come from most of our elite, you lost your time to hope something...

@DiscreetFX

Quote:

After careful consideration Bones has made his assessment of the situation.

He's dead Jim, bit not as we know it.

Quote:

Why does Ben remind me of Trelane.

He is the Q from 900 years ago in antiquity.

@V8

Quote:

The cost to pay someone to re-do the work and re-writes that were done to 3.2 are surely a LOT CHEAPER than the potential costs to become involved in never-ending lol-suits with Ben.

So what would people do there? Stand next to Ben and and endlessly laugh at men in suits? By never-ending lol-suits with Ben.

@thread

I know. I know what you're all saying. This topic won't ever be discussed on Amigans.net.

you might want to rethink that

I'm seeing some rather alarming posts here.

#6

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@thread

From Amiganews.de:

Quote:

Update: (10.04.24, 16:45, cg) Translation error: in several places, we had translated the German term "Konkursverwalter" to "liquidator" - this is a correct translation, but does not match the English term the native Dutch speakers mentioned in the news item used: They translated "voorlopig bewindvoerder" to "receiver". News item updated accordingly.

To be clear I'll repeat:

The literal translation of "bewindvoerder" is indeed "receiver" while the entire phrase:
"Aangewezen voorlopig bewindvoerder:" translates as "Designated provisional administrator"

This came from native Dutch who are highly proficient in English.

Other posters are using "Appointed provisional administrator". Fine. Same thing really.

Sorry to repeat this.

#6

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#6 Quote:

Another place posting info: Amibay forum Link courtesy: arnljot

The following image that arnljot posted for Ben Hermans BV is a strange financial statement.



Are the numbers in the first column the current financial values for the business (numbers in parenthesis being negative numbers)? It is strange that they would combine the row headings with the column for current financial values though. If these were the current financial values, where did the assets go with nothing to show for it? Were the assets already transferred to the new Ben Hermans BV?

#6 Quote:

From Amiganews.de: Quote: Update: (10.04.24, 16:45, cg) Translation error: in several places, we had translated the German term "Konkursverwalter" to "liquidator" - this is a correct translation, but does not match the English term the native Dutch speakers mentioned in the news item used: They translated "voorlopig bewindvoerder" to "receiver". News item updated accordingly. To be clear I'll repeat: The literal translation of "bewindvoerder" is indeed "receiver" while the entire phrase: "Aangewezen voorlopig bewindvoerder:" translates as "Designated provisional administrator" This came from native Dutch who are highly proficient in English. Other posters are using "Appointed provisional administrator". Fine. Same thing really. Sorry to repeat this.

The English translation is sometimes not as important as the native speaker interpretation.

https://www.amigans.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?post_id=147523#forumpost147523 Quote:

With respect to Hyperion Entertainment BV. There seems to be a lot of confusion, about a "voorlopige bewindvoerder" in Belgian Law. I now think the best translation would be provisional administration appointed under the suspician of bad faith. This is different from the Dutch "bewindvoerder". ... EDIT1: I quess that that the answer to the question is actually obvious: The liquidator of Ben Hermans BV. She must have noticed that new Ben Hermans BV popping up and had to act fast before the only asset with some value of the bankrupt Ben Hermans BV, Hyperion Entertainment BV, disappeared to the new Ben Hermans BV.

Notice that geennaam added the "under the suspician of bad faith" to his interpretation and he suspects the shell business shenanigans in the edit as well. There could be personal biases and lost interpretations between similar Belgium and Dutch languages and laws but his interpretation lines up with our suspicions. He is a member of this forum and could have read comments here which biased his opinions though. We may be working more with changing rumors than new information.

@thread

Please note the Amigans.net thread has been moved off the front page.
You may have to go to the forum "too hot to handle" to participate.

#6

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@matthey

Agree.

Based on my opinion that no principal or team member will post in any of the numerous threads on this topic, I found Amigakit's posting on the topic quite a valiant effort.

#6

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@number6

Amigakit's posts are interesting in the way that he clearly confirms what everyone has suspected being the reason for "why are you rewriting certain components in os4?"

I quote "A substantial amount of components have been developed from scratch replacing files which could be tied up in yet more legal entanglements. This work has been done over the last 6 years in anticipation of this event happening."

Not really shocking news but this is the first time ? it is confirmed what we all suspected were the reason for the re-writes and the replaced binaries. Not blaming him, I would have been doing the same thing were I in his shoes.