@AmigaBlitter

Quote:

Are you sure of this?

Well, I chat with os4 developers & beta testers, you can't drag any information from them, even in private, but SMP is hinted to be on the table. Even Hyperionmp gave a very strong hint that its being looked at, but I feel their doing more then looking.

In my lifetime, please!!

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Hate tends to make you look stupid...

I must say I agree with Jahc on this.
And I feel the userbase is really *this* big as it is now, you can wander from one side to another but the userbase is not growing. The key point for all 3 amiga like OSes, is how do you get new users aboard? Users that never have logged onto amigaworld.net before, users that only read about it mabye on slahsdot or osnews ?

That question is still unanswered by all 3. AROS is my personal preference because "Amiga" to me is the software, hardware can be whatever I just don't want it to cost too much also AROS seems more open minded to me. AROS is heading towards being really multi platform. Now even an ARM port is ongoing. So now for example AROS would need someone to make a PPC distro. Maybe *YOU* are the guy to start working towards that ? That is what is so lovley about AROS, it really is up to *YOU*. You can only look yourself in the mirror if it doesn't work out. No one to blame

So yes with AROS apps, are lacking. Users are coming/going. But it seems to generally be an increasing activity at least at the moment. I'm not saying there's a lot of work to do there still but. Compared to 2 years ago the difference is huge. We can't force one to port his app to AROS. (Of course Jahc being an exeption here, and thanks for that!) if developers don't want other OSes to run their software then we have to find other ways. And those "other ways" generally means a lot more work and a lot more time passing.
There are also shortcomings in AROS that makes ports impossible or to "heavy" but mabye as AROS matures those shortcomings goes away.

Next mile stone in AROS is UAE integration if you ask me. That is what I think many would want before they start to fiddle with AROS.

Last edited by Manu on 09-Jun-2009 at 12:23 PM.
Last edited by Manu on 09-Jun-2009 at 12:04 PM.
Last edited by Manu on 09-Jun-2009 at 12:03 PM.

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AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

@sundown

Quote:

Even Hyperionmp gave a very strong hint that its being looked at, but I feel their doing more then looking.

You mean the words i've quoted or something else?

You feel that they're are doing more than looking?

Last edited by AmigaBlitter on 09-Jun-2009 at 12:13 PM.

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retired

what cpu's and boards are the alternatives if smp support is under way?

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@jahc, Manu

AROS.

I still think the biggest turn off from AROS is its presentation to the world. Google it and you are show as the first link;

"AROS Research Operating System"

That might be what AROS means, but it sounds too geeky for anyone not a geek to even look at twice. Case in point, me. When in the past I'be heard of AROS, I've googled, I've been presented with a website that looks like an internal development board, not dissimilar to a number of Linux websites and thought, "I'll come back when its done".

In order to even find out about the OS, you have to be brave and battle your way around a website that has a small section on the left menus for users, and a bloody massive one for developers.

Everything about that website and its presentation around the net is of a research project for developers, concerning something that sounds very technical and unfinished. Take a look at the AROS website front page, over on the right under "Direct Downloads" and please explain to me how anyone not deeply into the inner workings of a computer can make heads or tails of that considering most people struggle with PC video game requirements printed on the outside of the box.

If you want to know why the uptake of AROS is so poor, there is it right there.

Last edited by SpaceDruid on 09-Jun-2009 at 02:40 PM.

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i'm just realizing that the Cell have 8 cores too. One PPE and 8 SPE :P

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retired

@AmigaBlitter

Cell consume around 30 watts of power

Of course it's the Cell.......they know WE WANT IT

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On Planet Boing Trevor is God

@broadblues

Quote:

I have a batch of carrot raisin and honey just about coming clear, I doubt it'll be hangover free!

That sounds a bit like my last batch of rhubarb wine. Not too bad but a wee bit on the strong side.

The best wine I did this year was Elderberry, even if I say so myself was better than many commercial wines. Odd as quite I few wines I do sometimes turn out dreadfully

I have not tried the Space Druid turnip yet but did a parsnip one a while ago which was not bad. I should do more rose petal ones as I have loads of them at the moment. The next experiment will be gorse flower wine, saw it on the TV the other day so will give it a go.

Nettle usually makes a good wins as well as a cracking soup. Yep - the things that sting you - taste lovely when cooked or made into wine.

Beetroot - I absolutely hate *pickled* beetroot - but that ferments well too and is not a bad wine ingrediant and this year we made beetroot ice cream which despite first reactions is blummin' gorgeous. No false colours at all - it just looks that way !

A bit O/T this but what is the original thread about BTW ?

Homemade booze is so much more interesting than x86 posts :o)



Bill.

@sundown

Quote:

@ SpaceDruid - You really need to work on your marketing strategy, I was really intrigued with the idea of a rose petal wine, but then you said "turnips, eewww!

As he is a Scotsman be thankful it wasn't Deep Fried Mars Bar wine to entice your palette !

BTW. How does the idea of beetroot ice cream grab you ?

@kidkoala

Quote:

what cpu's and boards are the alternatives if smp support is under way?

The much talked about Powerstation has a Quad core PPC970.

The Freescale 8641D/8640D evaluation board supports both single and dual core processors.

There also various Freescale PowerQuicc multicore processors and then there's the AMCC Titan, but I've no idea if the Titan is still in development.

@Manu

"So now for example AROS would need someone to make a PPC distro"


It's being worked on. And yes, for the Sam.

@Hyperionmp

Quote:

A move to x86 would halt all existing OS 4 development (i.e. complete feature freeze) and subsequently nearly all development time would be spent on dealing with the wide variety of x86 based hardware.

That sounds like AmigaOS4 ran on a wide variety of PPC based hardware like Mac Mini G4, iMac G5, powebook/ibook G4, psx3... but wait! it just runs in a few custom PPC boards... it must be graphic card support on PPC as you support nVidia, ATI, SiS... oh wait! just ATI is supported...

there's nothing stopping Hyperion from choosing certain components (like you already did on PPC) and releasing OS4 for that x86 hardware.

AROS runs on a wide variety of x86 hardware and the development team is not bigger than OS4 team.

In contrast with PPC families with incompatible MMU, x86 MMU unit seems to be more or less standard.


Quote:

In essence, Amiga OS 4.x development would grind to a complete halt and all this on the fairly far-fetched notion that tens of thousands of existing x86 owners would be willing to pay for a copy of OS 4.1 rather than just downloading a copy somewhere.

Does that mean that the 300 microA1 owners didn't want to pay for OS4.1 and downloaded it instead of paying for it? I just ask because your idea of selling custom hardware and the Operating System is just valid if there are no OS updates.

Do you really think that a person not willing to spend 90Euros on software is going to waste 700Euros on an underpowered machine that has to sit next to their main machine because it can't get work done due to that slow PPC?

Quote:

No thank you, we have taken a look at the PowerPC roadmap and there is plenty of life in it including 8 core designs under 30 W.

but do PPC makers release anything useful at all? It seems they just can produce PPC cpus for embedded stuff without L2 cache at sub Ghz speeds. Freescale seems unable to produce anything useful in quantities.

And how much will cost that 8-core cpus? will that allow me to run OpenOffice? Will I be able to use the 8 cores? Will AmigaOS be able to use more than 2GB of memory?

Quite frankly, AmigaOS is just a hobby OS, instead of screwing users with underpowered hardware and high prices you should make AmigaOS4.x run on x86 hardware so most of amiga fans can buy it.

It's easy to justify spending 90Euros but it's hard to justify spending 700Euros on an old machine that can't do most of tasks (openoffice, photoshop, firefox...)

Quote:

One of the main benefits of Amiga OS 4.1 is the fact that the geared entirely towards the PowerPC architecture as one of the very few operating systems around. Linux runs fine on PPC but it certainly is not optimised for this architecture in any way.

Could you explain me why can I use 4GB of ram on Linux PPC and why AmigaOS4 can't? or why can I use various cores on dual-G5 machines? Sorry, but ATM it's AmigaOS4.x the OS that does not take much advantage of the cpu.

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@Crumb

openoffice, photoshop, firefox...hmmm...why not use windows or linux and standard hardware? so what are you talking about?

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X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

@cha05e90

Quote:

openoffice, photoshop, firefox...hmmm...why not use windows or linux and standard hardware?

that is my point. Since x86 hardware is so cheap why no use standard hardware and avoid the need of buying another expensive&slow custom ppc board?

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The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@Crumb

Quote:

Crumb wrote: @cha05e90 Quote: openoffice, photoshop, firefox...hmmm...why not use windows or linux and standard hardware? that is my point. Since x86 hardware is so cheap why no use standard hardware and avoid the need of buying another expensive&slow custom ppc board?

This is not your point or you are quoting something that is different from what you want to point out. Let me rephrase Crumb and add some words of my own to have the full meaning: "Why not just buy an ultra cheap x86 pc around 150 euros, or buy a second hand 3 years old machine for 50 euros, install Windows or Linux, setup a few apps like OpenOffice, Photoshop and Firefox and finally place an OS4 desktop wallpaper on it? That will look exactly like the Amiga many users from the forum want: x86 cpu, cheap, fast with modern apps!"

Last edited by Cool_amigaN on 10-Jun-2009 at 09:22 PM.

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@Crumb

I think we need some important features first before swithing to any other CPU architecture.

@Cool_amigaN
heh heh

Last edited by Tomppeli on 10-Jun-2009 at 09:24 PM.

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Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

@Cool_amigaN

although that's not what I say it still sounds more reasonable than buying an expensive custom board with a sub ghz cpu without L2 to run a few linux ports (at least you'll be able to run them without crashing your entire OS)

Last edited by Crumb on 10-Jun-2009 at 10:38 PM.

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@Tomppeli

Quote:

I think we need some important features first before swithing to any other CPU architecture.

I'm afraid the user base may be reduced to 0 users before AmigaOS4 gets those "important features" I would prefer to have OS4 running in available hardware rather than paying a lot for a custom machine that hardly suits user needs. Amiga users grow older, have less time and can't justify spending a lot on a machine that is not comparable to what amiga was in 1985 (compared to nowadays computers).

If Hyperion had worked in releasing a Mac Mini/powerbook version instead of microA1 they would have sold more units (Only 300 microA1 were produced). I know it's not "new hardware" but in our community people pay a lot for used classics so I don't see the problem.

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The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

@Crumb

Quote:

Crumb wrote: there's nothing stopping Hyperion from choosing certain components (like you already did on PPC) and releasing OS4 for that x86 hardware.

While selecting a restricted set of hardware is obviously the way to go, it's not going to stop people from moaning that it doesn't work on the motherboard that they just pulled out of a bin somewhere, or that it only half works on a motherboard that was not in the supported list. Most people would still have to buy a motherboard for Amiga OS, so it's not 90 Euro vs 700.

Quote:

Does that mean that the 300 microA1 owners didn't want to pay for OS4.1 and downloaded it instead of paying for it? I just ask because your idea of selling custom hardware and the Operating System is just valid if there are no OS updates.

As I recall, a lot of A1 owners really didn't want to pat for OS 4.1, but I don't know if any of them downloaded it.

Quote:

Could you explain me why can I use 4GB of ram on Linux PPC and why AmigaOS4 can't? or why can I use various cores on dual-G5 machines? Sorry, but ATM it's AmigaOS4.x the OS that does not take much advantage of the cpu.

There are a few functions that use a negative number to indicate failure (bad design), and it's a single address space OS, whereas Linux gives every process its own address space. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. As for dual core, we haven't had any multi-core hardware to run it on, so it's not surprising that it isn't supported yet.

Hans

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http://hdrlab.org.nz/ - Amiga OS 4 projects, programming articles and more. Home of the RadeonHD driver for Amiga OS 4.x project.
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