Quote:

Exactly. Which was my point. Amiga != Amigaos And there is no thing such as Amigaos 1.0 as falsely posted in the news item.

Oh my god. Are you still banging that drum? You've been proven wrong time and time again and yet you still go on. Sheesh.

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@AmiDelf2

That Wiki picture: I haven't read the article, but if it is to show:

- the re-engineered API compability, it is partly a correct picture.

But if it is to show

- the history and develpoment relationship, then it is wrong.

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X1000|II/G4|440ep|2000/060|2000/040|1000

I think the browser needs to support .svg to show that picture from Wikipedia.

@Rogue

I run Ibrowse, Aweb, AmIRC, SabreMSN, Wookiechat, TvPaint, Deluxe Paint 5 +++ on my MorphOS machine. I also have MUI4, ReAction 68k ++ to run AmigaOS software. I don't understand what makes MorphOS less AmigaOS than AmigaOS 4? I would rather think MorphOS is more AmigaOS today just because the fact of no linux lib implementation or X11.

I feel you do this only because you think its right, not because it is. Because it would be bad claiming that AmigaOS4, AROS and MorphOS is source compatible. AROS is actually pretty old, its older than both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS. Some of AROS code is in MorphOS and there you go. I would be happy if you defended AmigaOS4 because you want to sell it, but when mentioning AmigaOS itself, I feel you should taken the whole picture.

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amitopia@gmail.com

@AmiDelf2

Just read and try to understand. The video Rogue posted is a visualisation generated from the source code logs of the Amiga operating system going back to 1985. The source code repositry in question holds only the source code of the official AmigaOS. AROS and MorphOS are seperate entities with their own source code repositries. The video therefore simply has nothing to do with morphos or aros. AROS even has its own development video. MorphOS devs could make one as well, if they like.

Quote:

I don't understand what makes MorphOS less AmigaOS than AmigaOS 4?

Its simple. MorphOS is not AmigaOS. It doesn't matter what software it runs, the fact is it is a seperate operating system. Just like ReactOS is not Windows. Note that there is nothing wrong with not being AmigaOS; MorphOS seems to be doing just fine as it is.

Quote:

I would rather think MorphOS is more AmigaOS today just because the fact of no linux lib implementation or X11.

First: It DOESNT MATTER what you think. AmigaOS is AmigaOS, MorphOS is not AmigaOS. These are facts, not opinions.

Secondly: There are X11 implementations that run on MorphOS, too. Besides, I use OS4 every single day, and I don't even have AmiCygnix installed. The idea that AmigaOS is suddenly not AmigaOS because a third party ported app to it is... frankly... bizarre.

Quote:

I feel you do this only because you think its right, not because it is. Because it would be bad claiming that AmigaOS4, AROS and MorphOS is source compatible.

NOBODY said they are not source compatible. Writing an operating system that is source compatible with a different operating system doesn't magically make it become that other operating system.

Quote:

AROS is actually pretty old, its older than both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS.

AROS is not older than AmigaOS, and AmigaOS4 is a continuation of AmigaOS. This video shows the continuous development of a single source tree from 1985 (Commodore's AmigaOS) to today (Hyperion's OS4). Not that the relative age of the operating systems has anything to do with anything.

Last edited by xeron on 08-Aug-2010 at 09:00 AM.

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From time to time, even in real life most of us meet with humans for who black its white, and white it black. And does not matter what you say for them, they still will say that white it's black. You will give them arguments, facts, you will try to be friendly in discussion, you will try to talk without emotions (for found the truth), but for them does not matter everything what everyone say, or what everyone try to explain. Because black its white, white its black, and everyone suck, only i am are the smart one.

That suck, childrish, lame, boring, strange.

Amidef2, why you even ask for rogue that "I don't understand what makes MorphOS less AmigaOS than AmigaOS 4?" ? He do not care about good it or bad in compare. He give a #### about. He in interest about amigaos , and that developming, not about morphos. Why you even ask that ? Ask that for users who use morphos and amigaos4.

That video done about developming of AmigaOS. What the problems ? Are you programmer ? You know what is source code / cvs / svn / etc ? If not , then i can explain: someone do some code 25 years ago (first version of amigaos), later other ones, update exactly that source code. Later, another ones update that code. And we have amigaos4.1 for now, which based on the first versions of amigaos (on the original , first, sources). Of course, with newer and newer update, will be less and less from the original one , but still, the main source code are original one. And because of it, it's AmigaOS. Not morphos and not AROs. Morphos and AROS its different amiga-like oses , their API are very close, but still, it's different OS. That absolutly different story.

If you only morphos user - use it, and be happy. No problems. Do you feel that MorphOS better than AmigaOS4 ? That right in some aspects, but that is absolutlu, totally, different story.

Last edited by kas1e on 08-Aug-2010 at 09:10 AM.

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@kas1e
Well said!

(i wonder how some people have so much strength to try to explain simple & clear things to complete idiots, again and again)

btw the wiki page has good explanation about the Amiga OS clones:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS

And this page has a very good (simplified) picture of the evolution of the real AOS source code:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AmigaOS_4
The picture: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f8/AmigaOS_3_and_clones.svg

Solid line tells where the source codes went (untill today) and dotted/dashed line shows API compatible paths.
The difference of AOS4 vs AROS & MOS is made very clear.

UPDATE:
I would like to see the future plan of AOS4.
AOS4 had AOS3 code base to start with and could pretty quickly run AOS3 API stuff (no huge reverse engineering needed like on MOS & AROS). Now it has AOS3 API compatibility to run re-compiled legacy SW + 68k SW. And it has improved AOS API (currently it seems less optimized OS than MOS, that has many years longer PPC development history.). But what is the plan towards the AOS4 future... (MP, ASMP, full 64bit)

CLONES:
Originally MOS was going to be a next gen Amigalike OS with Qbox for memoryprotected NG apps and Abox for AOS3 API compatible apps + 68k apps. But so far it seems that all development has gone in the Abox side. (10+ years lost in NG OS development) MOS has now AOS3 API compatibility + enchancements/improvements/new features on the AOS3 API box. Almost nothing on the NG side. MHO: MOS should have left Abox things long time ago and head to NG. Is there plan for MOS future? (MP, ASMP, full 64bit)

AROS goal has been to re-implement AOS3 API and go beyond. Also AROS efforts have manly gone in re-implementing AOS3 API. Very little is done towards the future, 68k AOS3 API apps need still original AOS3 files (like MOS did 10 years ago)... AROS has also lost 10+ years and it will loose another 10 years??? before it starts the true NG OS evolution??? IMO: AROS should leave AOS3 API to janusUAE and head to NG. Is there a plan to NG stuff? (MP, ASMP, full 64bit)

btw. I find Amiga influenced Dragonfly BSD interesting to read on wiki... see how they have simplified things like multiprocessing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DragonFly_BSD

Perhaps Matthew Dillon could help to kickstart AROS NG ? And assist ASMP stuff for AOS. (I know the quark kernel author is not interested in anyone helping... )
Is Matthew around at Amiga Community?

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- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

Haha funny thread someone should kick Heretic's ass big time what an absolute noob.

Lack of moderation? Too right. All posts talking about MOS should be deleted as they use this forum (and others) as an advertising platform to promote their illegal clone. On the other hand AROS isn't rammed down your throat.

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I don´t understand how exist people whose sole purpose is to annoy or inflame news and posts about AmigaOS or AmigaOne-X1000.
They think that discrediting the "competition" (they dont know that on Amiga world there isn´t competition but there is survival) get something good for the platform they support.

Really give me grief.
I hope developers of AmigaOs don´t take into account user feedback and yes we endorse AmigaOS 4.1 and below using computers as Sam, Amiga Classic or X1000.

@DJRikki

Quote:

Haha funny thread someone should kick Heretic's ass big time what an absolute noob.

Whilst I personally expect Heretic to feel the moderators attention, I don't think violence would help the situation somehow.

Quote:

Lack of moderation? Too right. All posts talking about MOS should be deleted as they use this forum (and others) as an advertising platform to promote their illegal clone. On the other hand AROS isn't rammed down your throat.

From my perspective you are:
1) Deliberately mistaking reality with the idea of someone making unfounded accusations. (Smoke != Fire).
2) Baiting/Trolling in response to trolls. Try reporting it to a moderator instead if you are truly taking offense (rather than just using it as a justification for trolling).

If you wish to criticise/disagree with an individual/troll, try engaging with them as an individual rather than tarring all users of a particular OS with the same brush.

There have been two other individuals (aside from yourself) baiting in this thread (well, one baiting, one just trolling). This accounts for only a small portion of the crap in the thread - mainly it's full of responses to the baiting/trolling (including from me).

Currently, things are not working well as many users (rather than a single voice of moderation) argue against/oppose each trollish comment.
I happen to agree with you that a line needs to be drawn in these types of news article, although I do not envy the task of the moderators, babysitting such infantile commentators.

[/OT]

Last edited by Boot_WB on 08-Aug-2010 at 12:19 PM.

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Troll - n., A disenfranchised former potential customer who remains interested enough to stay informed and express critical opinions.
opp., the vast majority who voted silently with their feet.

Quote:

I run Ibrowse, Aweb, AmIRC, SabreMSN, Wookiechat, TvPaint, Deluxe Paint 5 +++ on my MorphOS machine

I guess you are intentionally misinterpreting what I am saying, because the alternative wouldn't be very advantageous for you.

It does not matter what you can run. I can run Starcraft under Linux, using WINE, but you wouldn't say that Linux is WIndows, right? So, Why do you insist on what is obviously wrong?

But I think that's the core of your problem. You cannot accept that MorphOS is not, and will never be, AmigaOS. Note that this isn't degrading MorphOS in any way, it's just a matter of fact. You want MorphOS to be what it isn't, and you have a damn hard time accepting that this is not the case.

You can run AmigaOS 3.x software on MorphOS? Fine. Like I said, I can run Windows programs under Linux, but that doesn't make Linux Windows or vice versa.

But you are still missing the point. The video I did was about the development of AmigaOS... go up and read the explanation again, I don't feel like repeating it over and over.

Quote:

I don't understand what makes MorphOS less AmigaOS than AmigaOS 4? I would rather think MorphOS is more AmigaOS today just because the fact of no linux lib implementation or X11.

This statement is blatantly wrong. FYI, there are "linux lib implementations" (ixemul, ixlibrary) under AmigaOS 3, as well as an X server, so your statement lacks any substance and only serves to discredit you even more (if that was at all possible).

But again, you are missing the point. See above and read my earlier explanation about what the video was about.

Quote:

I feel you do this only because you think its right, not because it is

Can I have that quote in my signature? That was pure solid gold.

Quote:

Because it would be bad claiming that AmigaOS4, AROS and MorphOS is source compatible

So is Linux and Windows. I can compile most Linux programs under Windows using Cygwin, so your argument is void.

Quote:

AROS is actually pretty old, its older than both AmigaOS4 and MorphOS.

It isn't. The video clearly shows that there is no difference between AmigaOS 4 and AmigaOS. Just like nobody would say "Ubuntu 7" and "Ubuntu 8", AmigaOS 4 is AmigaOS. And I think this is your problem in reality. We're working on the same house still that has been built by the likes of Carl Sassenrath, Andy Finkel, Bryce Nesbitt and all the other great names of the past.

Quote:

I would be happy if you defended AmigaOS4 because you want to sell it, but when mentioning AmigaOS itself, I feel you should taken the whole picture.

"you feel". Right. And you have stated that before. However, your feelings in this matter are irrelevant. I made this movie, and what I feel is relevant for this. I have explained numerous times why I did what I did, and these are good, valid reasons. Your feelings do not matter. It's an opinion at most, and when there are two opinions, the one that does the work decides.

Live with it. AmigaOS is AmigaOS. MorphOS is MorphOS. It will never be AmigaOS. Even if we go under, it might at best be the spiritual successor, or compatible system. It's build on pretty much similar principles, and it doesn't even matter if you think it is better or not, it's as much AmigaOS as WINE is Windows.

If you and the likes of you would FINALLY accept this fact, maybe you would spent your time more productively than trying to convince people about something that isn't true. Maybe you could finally direct you energies to benefit your OS of choice instead of trying to sour up everybody else's enjoyment of theirs.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

Quote:

Currently, things are not working well as many users (rather than a single voice of moderation) argue against/oppose each trollish comment. I happen to agree with you that a line needs to be drawn in these types of news article, although I do not envy the task of the moderators, babysitting such infantile commentators.

As I said, this is a direct consequence of not accepting the fact that there are three OSes involved. There is AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS. As much as a typical Linux user doesn't follow Windows news items and vice versa, the world would be better off if people stuck to their OS of choice. AmigaOS is not AROS. MorphOS is not AmigaOS. They all forked off into different directions some years ago, and there is no use to try to bring them together either through evangelizing or trolling. All it does is spoil the fun for the other "camps".

If AmiDelf is a MorphOS user, fine. Use MorphOS. I do not think less of people just because they did not choose AmigaOS. But please, be AWARE that you are not using AmigaOS. There is nothing wrong with that, the only thing wrong is the trolling and the counterattacks.

Which I am as guilty of as others, I admit that (the counterattacking, I mean. I stay out of other OSes threads)

EDIT: Fixed wrong tags
EDIT: Added clarification

Last edited by Rogue on 08-Aug-2010 at 01:18 PM.
Last edited by Rogue on 08-Aug-2010 at 01:17 PM.

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@thread

New"ish" link from August 6

#6

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@Rogue

Quote:

But I think that's the core of your problem. You cannot accept that MorphOS is not, and will never be, AmigaOS. Note that this isn't degrading MorphOS in any way, it's just a matter of fact. You want MorphOS to be what it isn't, and you have a damn hard time accepting that this is not the case.

i really think you've hit the nail on the head. despite all of the historical arguments outlined in my other thread, i think this is what causes every thread on OS4 development or the X1000 to descend into madness. reading on amiga.org and elsewhere, even MOS developers themselves will make nasty comments about the other side. it seems folks want MOS to be 'the one true amiga' or at least on the same level as AOS in legitimacy in the post-commodore era.

i think it's nuts.

if you are a MOS enthusiast, terrific. enjoy it. encourage it. evangelize. but the constant, never-ending denigration of the 'other side' annoys people to no end. it has no benefit to the community, to MOS, or to happiness in general. MOS is not AOS for various reasons. that may a good thing. it may not. but making ridiculous comments like, 'MOS is as much or more AmigaOS than OS4,' or 'I don't understand what makes MorphOS less AmigaOS than AmigaOS 4? I would rather think MorphOS is more AmigaOS today...' shows a break with reality.

-- eliyahu

Last edited by eliyahu on 08-Aug-2010 at 03:26 PM.

_________________
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@eliyahu

Although the perceived anger here from HJF might indicate he is a bit
"rouge" in the face, I'd still address the post to @Rogue. Heh.

Don't be embarrassed. We've all made the same typo one time or another.

#6

_________________
This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
*Secrecy has served us so well*

@number6

whoops! thanks for the heads up. sorry, rogue!



-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

[QUOTE]There is no such thing as AmigaOS 1.0.

I believe Rogue intentionally is trying to mislead people by using the term "AmigaOS 1.0" when no such thing ever existed. Then using it to try to legitimitaly tie it to Hyerpion "AmigaOS" 4.

The first ever "AmigaOS" is 4.0.

There is no such thing as "AmigaOS" 1.0, 1.x, 2.0, 2.x, 3.0, 3.x[/QUOTE]

What rubbish. I run AmigaOS 3.9. Which doesn't exist according to you. I'd like to know what the hell it is called then if it isn't AmigaOS 3.9.

[QUOTE]Commodore never built CPUs themselves.[/QUOTE]

Actually, this isn't strictly true, as they owned MOS who made eg. the 6502 CPU series, used in eg. the VIC-20.

I really like the video, I wish I could zoom in and move around.

How hard would it be to create an interactive version in 3D perhaps ?

Great work !!

There is little public documented information about the development of AmigaOS apart from each updates changes.

Someone could write a bestseller on his experiences

If only we had the Amiga Technical Journal back !

Does anyone remember this Commodore brochure? :

http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4388/amigabrochureb.jpg

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@asymetrix

Quote:

Does anyone remember this Commodore brochure? : http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/4388/amigabrochureb.jpg

yes indeed. i certainly do. man, do i miss those days!

-- eliyahu

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"Physical reality is consistent with universal laws. When the laws do not operate, there is no reality. All of this is unreal."

Let's fill in the missing pieces of that image:




Hey Hans is Sebastian Bauer still on the Amigaos team?

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