@ACK


Damn it Adam if this thing never shows up I will be really ####ed.

Never got this excited over a piece of vapor before.


Kgrach

hello,

technical question:

the cpu on the high end board is fanless, need a fan (small or big). Would like to know if this new amiga will made lots of noise or not ????

Hope than ACK propose to us some cases, colors,... for the new amiga and we will all choose the cases we like the much.

thanks to ACK to discuss to all here.

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BTW, what you have done for the amiga today ????

-A1200+Mediator+VooDoo3+060/50+96mo+SCSI-KIT
-SAM440EP-667mhz-on MapowerKC3000+AOS4.1

Amiga Docs Disks Preservation Project

It is fanless because, by spec, it is dissipating not more than 15W...

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God created Paula so that Allister Brimble and Dave Whittaker could do music

Check my Amiga gameplays (ITA)!

Quote:

The GREAT MYTH that everything just works in the PC world is just as credible as say ing that politicians tell the truth.

Indeed, in my experience about nothing really worked ok in my PCs over years

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ikir

@kgrach

Ditto

Im not going to beleive anything untill i have hardware on my table, and using it with os4.Simple as that

_________________
Sam460 The Red One 1.2GHZ 2GB DDR 500GBHDOs4.1 UP6
Sam440ep 667mhz 150GB HD AmigaOS4.1 (Retired)
Windows 7/Ubuntu 64BIT Half / 4TB HD 2X SSD 16GB DDR
iMac 27" 1TB/Fusion Drive 16GB DDR 2GB Nvidia MacOsX Late 2012 Model

@kgrach
Memory module issues varies different degrees.

Quote:

The PC133 Standard was one of the more finicky. You may not remember but several PC chipsets were downright picky in what worked well and what didn't.

My PC133 memory modules works fine with my old MSI-6330 Rev 3.x (VIA 686B SB based). Anyway, PC133 standard is dead in mainstream PC market. I was using this system to record (analogue) cable TV with LeadTek GeForce 4 TI with VIVO ports along time ago. It was stable back then.

Quote:

Yes you can slap a bunch of off the shelf components together and they probably will work just not well and definitely not reliable

Issues varies different degrees.

There are differences between novice PC assemblers vs professional PC assemblers e.g. refer to AMD LIVE, Intel VIIV and MCE initiatives. 15 to 17 percent of all desktop PCs sold are AMD LIVE or INTEL VIIV based.

Quote:

Example I build lots of DVR's for what ever reason certain Philip PCI chips just will not work on any AMD MOBO the damn thing just crashes the machine and the software hasn't even been installed yet

Depend on how the motherboard allocates it's Plug'n'Play resource.

I usually use USB 2.0 capture box (with HW encoder), USB 2.0 digital TV (HDTV) box and Firewire-400 source for DVR work. These capture devices are linked to laptops (all X64 based). For non-HD audio codec equiped laptops, I also connect them to external SoundBlaster 24bit boxes via USB 2.0.

Laptop acts like portable (WiFi or Ethernet access points) video recorders/players (connected to HDTV) that streams videos (mostly DIVX) to and from centralise servers (desktop PCs with a large storage devices) with a document management search engine (set for LAN only).

At present unit growth rate, laptop PCs will surplus desktop PC unit sales in Q1 2008. Laptop PCs by their very nature are shipped as (near) complete systems.

Last edited by Hammer on 09-May-2007 at 11:58 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 09-May-2007 at 11:44 AM.

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Amiga 1200 (rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32/RPi CM4/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (rev 6A, ECS, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 4B/Emu68)
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB

Hi all,
I just wanted to comment on this whole Power Amiga Subject/Debate/Complain thing going on in this thread. I have a couple of theories and predictions about the Amigas coming; be it soon or in the distant future.

1- Amiga Inc and Hyperion are in a legal battle over OS4. . . my theory
- - Amiga Truly did want to release a new computer and/or OS, but were bogged down by a legal ( and rightfully so ) obligation to Hyperion. I believe Amiga, in Bill's 20 questions answered to Amiga.Org, mention something about OS5 being released soon. Seems to me like Amiga wants to own and run it all once again. MAYBE, that's why these two are truly going to court, to see who has the rights to OS5 and any future Hardware/OS combo release.

2- Amiga Inc and ACK join forces to bring you a system for both low end user and power user. . .my theory
- - Yes they probably do have this in production or close to it. But can they release it to us anytime soon with the legal issues going on? Who knows? But I'm guessing IF they don't produce any pictures and/or hardware for sale, they'll easily turn around and blame this on the lawsuit, and tell us to be patient.

3- The current Amiga community as a whole. . . my prediction
- - We need to get back to what we once were; a tight nit, passionate for the computer and each other, supportive group. Yes people have their opinions and differ on things, but from what I've been reading here and other Amiga websites, we've turned ugly on each other, and for what? If we don't pull together again, and become the "Amigians", we'll be no better than the Windows junkies out there.

4- The future Amigas. . . my prediction
- - They will eventually come out, slowly, and they will rock our Amiga/Linux/MorphOS worlds. Even though some are complaining about lack of sound cards and not enough PCI slots, we'll all have a very well rounded machine, and work with each other, they way Amigians always have, and fix it, if need be.

Now on to my questions to you all.

1 - Why haven't any of you addressed the true problem, ( Unless you know somewhere to find this ), about the soon to be Amigas; WHERE do you get any software for it, and WHAT software is there to use on the machines? I mean, I mainly used Amiga for games and video editing, but what can you use the upcoming ones with?

2- Adam, why don't you tell us all how much you're enjoying this thread? I'm sure you're just laughing your butt off at all the people's guessing and arguing with each other.

3- Bill or Adam; Humor us, please, just 1 photo of an actual Motherboard of either of the machines, can you do it for us?

Thanks all. Mind you, I'm all for the Amiga rising once again, but like all of you, I'm disappointed/anxious/ready as well.

Ed

_________________
Amiga 1200 - ACA 1233 68030 128MB Ram
8GB CF With tons of Classics

AmigaOne X5000

Raspberry PI 400 - PiMiga 1.5
"That which doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger" - Someone important, but I forgot who

@Sneaky

This isn't "normal business" ... make money or got too h*ll....

I hate it but that is how it works. AOS 4 not done yet? The contract says..... we payed you...

So... how does this seem to the amiga spirit? Or the community at that... face it, they want to make money and there aren't room for anything else...

Quote:

You may not remember but several PC chipsets were downright picky in what worked well and what didn't.

Never knew that.

Quote:

Plus by your comment about selling back uneeded components is really silly as if you are that cheap.

I just think it's stupid to pay for something that only goes in the trash because I have no use for it. I've already got a number of spare keyboards and mice. I really don't care to have any more of them. If ACK can recycle these things then at least it's not pointlessly taking up space in the landfill.

Last edited by billt on 09-May-2007 at 07:41 PM.

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All glory to the Hypnotoad!

Quote:

- - Amiga Truly did want to release a new computer and/or OS, but were bogged down by a legal ( and rightfully so ) obligation to Hyperion. I believe Amiga, in Bill's 20 questions answered to Amiga.Org, mention something about OS5 being released soon. Seems to me like Amiga wants to own and run it all once again.

I suspect you're more or less right. I don't think Bill used the word "soon," but he did indicate development was well underway, and in the addendum made it clear that OS5 was a desktop OS and not Amiga Anywhere or anything similar. Looking at what we have of the legal filing, I suspect that Hyperion overextended itself by (understandably) adding bells and whistles. It's now in a fight to get some of its investment back—preferably all of its investment back. Hence the impasse. Amiga has a vested interest in bringing development back in house; otherwise, there will be two lines of development and, quite likely, incompatibilities.

My guess is that the winner will be determined in 11th hour pretrial negotiations, and the winner will be the one with the most money. Remarkably that now seems to be Amiga Inc. I would suspect that there'll be a compromise based on paying Hyperion something for the extras that were packed onto the OS, even if OS5 has arrived at different solutions in the meantime.

I've been called for jury duty at least a half dozen times and have never served on one because the parties resolved their differences while we cooled our heals in the courthouse. The last time I served, there were something like eight civil cases on the docket, all of them one business suing another. It took five hours to resolve the last of those, but it was settled.

Amiga and Hyperion have been haggling for a long time. The stakes are high for both of them. Both have been grandstanding in one way or another. At this point they've nullified one another. The lawsuit will force some kind of resolution. To that extent it's a good thing.

HB

Last edited by Blot on 09-May-2007 at 09:34 PM.

@HWGA

Quote:

About the sound card; there are PCI-e sound cards soon to be available. Like these: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=38230 http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/multimedia/display/20070111140528.html

Nice to see, thanks for the links. It is about time some more PCI-e cards were made seeing as more motherboards lack many PCI slots which would have traditionally been filled with soundcards and IDE cards amongst other things.

Last edited by _Steve_ on 09-May-2007 at 09:54 PM.

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Test sig (new)

Hm, keyboard and mouse can't be the problem, I'd suppose. They should consider maybe selling the package without it (with a list of tested/recommended KB/Mouse combos).
But maybe AI wants to keep that for product placement and such ?

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

Quote:

This isn't "normal business" ... make money or got too h*ll....

You're absolutly right. This isn't normal business, because NOONE is making money at the moment AT ALL!

In a normal business money is the only factor that counts. If the "wrong" side earned the money at the end of the trial, they are sentenced to give it to the rightful owner.

So it's really not understandable, why there is no one earning money at all. It's seems more like a if "I go down, I'm gonna drag you down, too" on both sides.

But, of course, I'm still hoping this comes to a reasonable end in the near future, and all can go back normal business.
For us that should mean discussing which PCI-E Sund- and TV-Cards are the best or how to get Clone-A working in SAMs FPGA

Poster: Helge Date: 8-May-2007 21:44:41

>It's a chance to have all the parts in working condition along with the motherboard, >rather >than making the mistake Eyetech did with AmigaOne, by only delivering the >motherboard, >and then don't know what kind of memory, graphic board, sound card and >such will work..

Yes, and it's also important that they add a sticker to the M/B.
"WARNING - Do Not Overclock CPU".

Quote:

I've been called for jury duty at least a half dozen times and have never served on one because the parties resolved their differences while we cooled our heals in the courthouse. The last time I served, there were something like eight civil cases on the docket, all of them one business suing another. It took five hours to resolve the last of those, but it was settled.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know that the parties resolved their differences while you were waiting? Maybe things are different in your state/county/city, but in the times I've been called to jury duty over here in Florida the process is like this. You go into a large room with all other potential jurors - and only potential jurors - for that day, then at intervals somebody comes in and selects a group of people from the whole who are ushered away to be presented with the case, never to be seen again. Unless you're picked for a case, you are not told anything about what cases are on the docket. You do not meet the plaintiffs or defendants, in fact you aren't even allowed to read a newspaper or watch the news on TV. If at the end of the day if you don't get picked to actually be in a jury group, you aren't told what the cases that day were or their outcome, or if the people involved settled before going to trial, or anything. You just go home.

I mean, I guess after you've been dismissed you could quickly run over and ask to see the docket, and maybe find out what the cases were and what happened.

Errr, and just to remain loosely on topic, specs alone do not a computer make!

Last edited by jorkany on 10-May-2007 at 05:00 PM.

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Here for the whimpering end

I previously wrote Quote:

1. What exactly is the point of a dual-core 64-bit system, when OS4 can't support either of those features for the foreseeable future?

@amipal who said Quote:

Why are so many people adamant that OS4 can't function on this board without a total rewrite? IIRC, Don't PPC chips retain the 32 bit mode regardless if they're 64 bit?

No-one was saying OS4 can't run on that board, they were saying that OS4 will be stuck running in a 32-bit mode on one PPC core (with the other core disabled). Which seems just a little stupid IMHO, as it'd be running at half the potential speed & limited to 1-2GB of memory.

@Skunkfish who said Quote:

Even if OS4 can't initially use the full power of the chip I'm sure it will be worked on to add full support in future OS revisions.

No, it is technically IMPOSSIBLE for OS4 to support 64-bit or SMP (multi-core) due to it's design. Bernie would do a better job at explaining, but since he hasn't:

1. A 64-bit address space requires 64-bit pointers, which take up twice the memory space of our traditional 32-bit pointers. So *existing* PPC & 68k apps cannot EVER handle a 64-bit address space (without a recompile). Neither can you mix 64-bit & 32-bit apps on a 64-bit AmigaOS4, because AmigaOS's design shares (64-bit) OS pointers to every app. Therefore the only way OS4 can support 64-bit is by loosing support for 68k apps, and requiring that all existing PPC apps be recompiled - which would put it in the same situation as AROS (and no-one wants to be in THAT situation).

2. SMP (apps running on multiple cores) requires that apps can communicate with the OS (and other apps). Which would be fine, except AmigaOS is built around the sharing of (pointers to OS) data structures & the implicit assumption that only one program can access them at any time - and that is patently untrue for a multi-core system (*). I'm a little less sure about this, but I don't think there's any way to modify OS4 without loosing all backwards compatibility (and thus all existing 68k & PPC apps).

(* which is why a BlizzardPPC system ran incredibly slowly - it had to alternate between the 68k processor running & the PPC running).

@Blot who said Quote:

Bill ... made it clear that OS5 was a desktop OS and not Amiga Anywhere or anything similar.

What's stopping Amiga Anywhere BECOMING a desktop OS? That was always Fleecy's original goal - before (apparently) discovering that Tao/Elate was ill-suited to the task. So I still think OS5 may be Amiga Anywhere v2.0 (which may be a big rewrite of v1.5), especially if it does not use Tao/Elate as some guess.

Last edited by ChrisH on 10-May-2007 at 05:54 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Quote:

What's stopping Amiga Anywhere BECOMING a desktop OS? That was always Fleecy's original goal - before (apparently) discovering that Tao/Elate was ill-suited to the task. So I still think OS5 may be Amiga Anywhere v2.0 (which may be a big rewrite of v1.5), especially if it does not use Tao/Elate as some guess.

Doesn't it lack certain key pieces that an OS needs? Like, a kernel, drivers, task scheduling, shells, etc. - pretty much everything that you would need add to what is basically just a graphics API to make it an OS?

Sure, I guess you could add all those things...kind of like building an OS starting with DirectX.


(fixed typo)

Last edited by jorkany on 10-May-2007 at 06:05 PM.

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Here for the whimpering end

Quote:

1. A 64-bit address space requires 64-bit pointers, which take up twice the memory space of our traditional 32-bit pointers. So *existing* PPC & 68k apps cannot EVER handle a 64-bit address space (without a recompile). Neither can you mix 64-bit & 32-bit apps on a 64-bit AmigaOS4, because AmigaOS's design shares (64-bit) OS pointers to every app. Therefore the only way OS4 can support 64-bit is by loosing support for 68k apps, and requiring that all existing PPC apps be recompiled - which would put it in the same situation as AROS (and no-one wants to be in THAT situation).

Well I don't know how, but it seems that in the PC World this seems not to be a big problem, as most 64bit Processors are run with a 32bit WinXP. Don't know though if the maximum memory border gets extended then (which, BTW, is the main reason for 64bit CPUs). And as far as I know, you don't have to get a different Office Version, if you're running it under the 64bit XP, which is available.

So it has to be at least technically possible. At what cost, has to be answerd by someone else

Do we know what type of AmigaOS this new Power system will run?

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Helge K. Leaving the Amiga in favour of a PC..