@m3x

Quote:

@Xenic The decision to introduce the 733 Mhz version is really simple, there aren't enough 800 Mhz boards to meet market demand, which is higher we expect it to be. Therefore instead to have all potential customers to wait in vain for the 800 Mhz version, the 733 Mhz was introduced. To be noted that the 10% higher DDR clock compensate, in most cases, the slower 733 Mhz cpu. About the "orphaned hardware" you're still covered with a full 2 years warranty. and again, if you feel your hardware is faulty, I suggest you to install Linux, check if the board is fully functional with it, and return it in case it isn't.

I appreaciate choice. But I cannot see how an overly successfull product leads to it being taken out of production.

But then I guess it's due to me not understanding how the 800mhz came about. If it's you who's selecting the suitable parts, or if it's a supplier of yours.

Also, I am sure you are aware that we want something bigger, badder and faster. And I'm equally sure that people understand that you will supply it if and when it's viable for you to do so. Technically and economically.

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Are you going to stop refurging boards targeted at some obsucre embed market to amiga users ?

Dude, we should all be happy we get that much. For so long as there is a dependence on PowerPC, at this point I don't think it makes sense to do anything else on the hardware end of things.

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Quote:

And what about the demand? They don't know, that with their efforts, the Amiga community is going bigger and bigger (in my opinion)?

They have made (IMHO) the sensible choice of changing to 733 from 800 (with a faster RAM speed) in order to feed demand. The Amiga is a tiny market and if the choice to get 800 boards has dried up (for whatever reason) then swapping to virtually the same product to feed that demand is a good thing. If they don't do this the bigger community you are going on about simply won't get the chance to exist.

I strongly doubt you would be able to tell the difference in use especially as the faster RAM speed may actually get you a faster board anyway.

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So why not 800MHz versions anymore? I really can pay them, whatever they want, so they can produce me a new Flex above 1.2GHz. Will they accept that?

I would imagine that ACube do not have the financial clout to control chip availability. If they sell lots of 733 boards then I am sure they will look at faster boards. I would imagine they are supplying the fastest boards they can at the most reasonable price point. The faster and therefore more expensive the board the more they will shrink their possible customer base. With a middle-of-the-road, lower cost board they stand the best chance to market to the most customers giving them the opportunity of doing faster boards.

If you want OS4.1 then I would buy a 733 now as there isn't really anything I can think of that would need anything faster on the Amiga right now anyway plus you get the chance to try out the lovely new OS

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Sam

Why are these mobos being sold as OC'd? It's one thing if the consumer does it, it's quiet another when the retailer does it.

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Dammy

@Phantom

Quote:

So why not 800MHz versions anymore?

I may be wrong but I think m3x mentioned something about newer 440ep chips that were more difficult to overclock. If this is the case then it probably means the multiplier is now locked, hence the increase in the memory clock.

If they are limited to upping the memory bus then, they have to hit 160Mhz to get the CPU core to 800Mhz. You'll probably find that 147Mhz was the furthest they could take it before encountering problems.

The above is speculation on my part, maybe m3x could clarify.

The multiplier is NOT locked.

But there's about a million things that can go wrong when overclocking, so complaining about ACube stepping down their overclocking business is a bit retarded, to be quite frank.

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@damocles

Quote:

Why are these mobos being sold as OC'd? It's one thing if the consumer does it, it's quiet another when the retailer does it.

If it comes overclocked from the manufacturer then you don't lose your warranty.

@olegil

Quote:

The multiplier is NOT locked

Thanks for the clarification.

@arnljot

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you will supply it if and when it's viable for you to do so. Technically and economically.

Finally some words of wisdom from someone that understands the situation.
I agree 200%.

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Philippe 'Elwood' Ferrucci
Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation

Quote:

Sorry but you + Crumb is not equal to all "people from here"

Everyone who bought slower versions would have gotten a faster version if it had been available... Do the maths: it's not about me or Crumb... and neither about you.

It's about the targeted embed market...

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@Rob & damocles
You can buy graphics cards that are overclocked as standard, so I really don't see the problem.

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@Phantom
The answer has been repeated here many times. Most of the embedded CPUs have been 400 Mhz and below. ACube's design actually implemented one of the fastest embedded CPUs at the time which clocked up to 667 Mhz. This is the 440ep. They have even been able to over clock it. At the end of last year, AMCC released the 460 model, which can do 1Ghz and above. I have no idea whether that is a viable upgrade path for Acube, or how much time it would take to design and release a new motherboard. I'm guessing 2 years.

What you are asking for is a more powerful desktop from someone like Eyetech, Genesi, Ack, Trokia, etc. Obviously with the examples of those companies, and the unavailability of this product from any of them means that a good solution is more difficult than you personally estimate. I would also like to see something beyond my current AmigaOne and SAM in the future. But there is no reason for anything but happiness to see one company succeed when so many others fail.

Last edited by logicalheart on 25-Jun-2009 at 06:44 PM.
Last edited by logicalheart on 25-Jun-2009 at 06:44 PM.

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Quote:

You can buy graphics cards that are overclocked as standard, so I really don't see the problem.

It might be by the OEM, it's not being done by the retailer.

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Dammy

I agreee with several that the 733Mhz, which is unlke the previous 800Mhz version, fully native and not overclocked, and has now a faster memory bus, which makes the board quite fast, so like others say you won't notice much difference between an 800Mhz version with 133Mhz bus-speed, toward a 733Mhz one with 147Mhz bus speed..

Remember that AmigaOS 4.1, especially with the latest updates, makes the system compact, fast and efficiency, compared to the latest Windows that relies heavily on memory and CPU power. AmigaOS 4.1 is able to do all the things that Windows is doing today, but in much better smoother ways..

I wouldn't worry about Windows. I am using it now on my PC and that is the Windows 7 RC, but still i am not impressed by the system. Even the slowest Amiga can do all the job far much better, really...

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@HKvahle
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Most impressive. Most of you may know that it's the new memory system in AmigaOS 4.1 that makes things go a lot faster, and it seems that ACube have taken well care of that part.

Wow !!! You finally mastered sarcasm !!! (well, in dubio pro reo is what they say).

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I agreee with several that the 733Mhz, which is unlke the previous 800Mhz version, fully native and not overclocked,......

Huh ?? Am I missing something here ? AFAIUnderstand there are now overclocking the whole CPU including the RAM by 10% instead of overclocking just the CPU by 20% via the multipliers

Last edited by Kronos on 25-Jun-2009 at 08:51 PM.

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I believe that the 733Mhz is a native version. If my thought is correct, the AMCC CPU that houses the SAM440ep-motherboards, is available natively in 733Mhz version, also.

The 800Mhz version was overclocked from 667Mhz. I can understand a reason why this is not produced anymore, so the 733Mhz must be native, and a change to the memory bus making it up to 147Mhz, which is a good one..

I meant everything i said, and i really thing Hyperion Entertainment and ACube do an amazing job. Amiga Inc is not the one i want to support as they have failed the community when they chose to sue Hyperion Entertainment..

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@HKvalhe

I think your wrong.

The 733MHz is a slightly less overclocked CPU, still using the 667Mhz one. Max can correct me if I'm wrong.
As Max said to compensate for the speed loss compared to the 800Mhz they have up'ed the memory bus speed.

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@olegil

Quote:

I mean, come on. ACube can't be expected to perform miracles here. Excactly how are we any worse off today than we were yesterday?

are we worse today than yesterday? well... YES... not just yesterday but 5 years ago you could buy G4 machines that still run rings around these "new" boards.

if development was focused on Mac Mini G4 instead of fixing bugs of underpowered obscure embedded boards there wouldn't be short supply problems because millions of Mac Mini G4 were produced.

Is Mac Mini G4 the best thing in the world? not, it isn't, but ATM is the best platform they could release AmigaOS4.x fastest (they already have it booting on 1.5Ghz machines without network/sound drivers).

Do you know what amiga users want? decent hardware at reasonable prices (that means something faster than the hardware released more than 5 years ago like Pegasos2-G4/1Ghz)


They could circunvect the license problem more or less like they did with Pegasos2 version... tell a distributor to sell a pair of second hand Mac Minis with a boing ball sticker and Amiga Forever, claim that "it's hardware targeted to Amiga market" and release AmigaOS4.x for these machines (it would work in all Mini G4s, of course). It's more or less the same argument used for Peg2 version... if Peg2 version is legal, Mac Mini version would be too.

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Now, your dissapointment is understandable.

I also wished I see some tests done on all 3 (or four is someone has 800Mhz( boards and know the comparison power/price.

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@crumb

Tell you what. I'm willing to bet that if awesome* hardware becomes available within, say, 1 year from now, you and Leo are still going to bitch about something. And you won't purchase.

care to take me up on that wager?

*: Let's say about 8 times the performance of the SAM, at 5 times the price. I know we all want our hardware and software for free, but it would be a step in the right direction, after all (more bang for the buck AND more peak bang)

_________________
This weeks pet peeve:
Using "voltage" instead of "potential", which leads to inventing new words like "amperage" instead of "current" (I, measured in A) or possible "charge" (amperehours, Ah or Coulomb, C). Sometimes I don't even know what people mean.