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Software News   Software News : Sputnik/KHTML port Update
   posted by jahc on 26-Jul-2006 1:01:42 (11656 reads)
Marcik is currently porting the modern KHTML browser engine to MorphOS. He has given a status update recently with pictures here. He has named his project Sputnik.

The source code is going to amigarized heavily, so an AmigaOS port will be easy afterwards. The AWeb team have already expressed interest in doing this port.



KHTML is used in a number of browers on other platforms already. Including Konquerer and Safari.

There is a bounty on MorphZone if you would like to contribute.
    

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PosterThread
Rogue 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 29-Jul-2006 14:47:27
#61 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@misterq

Quote:
So, if my, Marcik, or anyone programmer personal preferences is related with MUI, then nobody can do anything with this. ;) Simple.


Beg your pardon, but I don't get that. You asked for a potential reason why someone would want a brower using Reaction, I said "personal preference". What do you want to tell me with that reply?

There is another point, though - the "take it or leave it" kind of attitude might turn out to be "leave it" for some. Not wanting to indicate this is the case here or anywhere, but it is worth a consideration, especially in as small a market as the Amiga.


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Samwel 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 29-Jul-2006 15:16:52
#62 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@Rogue

It's the usual attitude from MOS people against ReAction. Seen it a million times.

Well if Marcik wants to sell more than 200-300 browsers he might want to do
a OS4 version along the MOS version.
Otherwise others might make a ReAction wrapper from the KHTML code and
then use it for OS4 and beat him to it.


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pixie 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 29-Jul-2006 16:26:17
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2796
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

@Samwel
Quote:
Well if Marcik wants to sell more than 200-300 browsers he might want to do.

He don't need to do a Reaction AmigaOS 4 port, AFAIK MUI is also available forAmigaOS4.
Quote:
Otherwise others might make a ReAction wrapper from the KHTML code and

Why otherwise? Because no other had done a MUI wrapper? Aweb team is heading this way...


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pixie 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 29-Jul-2006 16:34:41
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2796
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

Quote:
One reason - personal preference. Like with so many things, a lot of people have personal preference for one or the other thing.


Present someone one browser which is KHTML based and uses MUI (namely because the core programmer ever coded for MUI, not for any kind of conspiracy theory) and not use it for the sake of it, and I would call it Paranoia, not preference, as simple as that.

Marcik doesn't need to do a wrapper for reaction as MUI suits OS4 rather fine... of course everyone and his dog will jump to make the Reaction version of WebCore browser and *after* he releasing his, yeah right, it makes sense... it hasn't even started now, much less in the future after one being released...


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pixie 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 29-Jul-2006 16:39:23
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2796
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

Quote:
There is another point, though - the "take it or leave it" kind of attitude might turn out to be "leave it" for some. Not wanting to indicate this is the case here or anywhere, but it is worth a consideration, especially in as small a market as the Amiga.

It's rather ironic that you talk about this, because 'this take it or leave it' fullfill not one, not two, not three, but rather four OS, that happen to be or Amiga OSs or Amiga like OSs, above all it suits far more Amigans and gives them much more freedom then your 'not take it nor leave it' reaction attitude ever would...


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Georg 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 29-Jul-2006 17:47:36
#66 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 14-May-2003
Posts: 450
From: Unknown

Using GUI engines which (like ReAction) are based on Intuition boopsi gadgets for more complex things is a big mess. They are far too limited and as soon as you have somthing which takes a bit of time to execute in your gadget class you can freeze the whole system's user interface while it is in progress. So you have to start offloading work to sub tasks or app task (where your gadget then starts working/behaving MUI-like regarding responsiveness). That's also necessary for other things, not just cpu intensive stuff. Like when your gadget class needs timers, additional input.

AWeb also does not use ReAction or boopsi gadgets for the html "view area". Only for simple things like buttons, config windows, etc.

khtml wrapper to anything Intuition boopsi gadget based (like ReAction) can be forgotten. Makes no sense.

Already something as simple/lightweight as a text editor class (which do exist) is already mostly overkill for Intuition boopsi gadget system.

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Interesting 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 29-Jul-2006 22:36:26
#67 ]
Super Member
Joined: 29-Mar-2004
Posts: 1812
From: a place & time long long ago, when things mattered.

Samwel
Quote:
I still hope there can be a ReAction wrapper aswell in the future.


Me, I could care less how it works, just get it done.

The person, or group that gets a good browser done, and available at the right time will do very well if they don't get too greedy IMHO


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jahc 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 30-Jul-2006 2:03:44
#68 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-May-2003
Posts: 2959
From: Auckland, New Zealand

Quote:
It's the usual attitude from MOS people against ReAction. Seen it a million times.

I reckon OS4 Reaction looks cooler than OS4 MUI3.9, but I prefer programming for MUI than Reaction. MUI has some better classes.. compare the listbrowser autodoc to the nlist.mcc autodoc for instance.

Quote:
Well if Marcik wants to sell more than 200-300 browsers he might want to do a OS4 version along the MOS version.

Well if he only wants to sell "200-300 browsers" thats his choice. Btw, I hate it when people pull numbers out of their a** like that. Your guess is probably accurate, but noone knows for sure how many he'd sell.

Also, consider that maybe hes not in it soley for the money, but to help advance his favourite platform.

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Rogue 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 30-Jul-2006 9:16:28
#69 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@pixie

Quote:
I would call it Paranoia, not preference, as simple as that.


As if you where in any position to judge this.

If someone makes a certain GUI toolkit mandatory for using software, it is his personal preference, and I don't think anybody has the right to call this "paranoia". Sure, it wouldn't be a reason for me NOT to use a program, but it STILL is personal preference.

Quote:
Marcik doesn't need to do a wrapper for reaction as MUI suits OS4 rather fine... of course everyone and his dog will jump to make the Reaction version of WebCore browser and *after* he releasing his, yeah right, it makes sense... it hasn't even started now, much less in the future after one being released...


Note the complete absense of any bias in my posting. I just said "personal preference" in reply to a question to name a reason for Reaction. Of course you lot need to make an MUI crusade out of it again.

Why you need to get this insulting is beyond me too.


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Rogue 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 30-Jul-2006 9:18:42
#70 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@pixie

Quote:
It's rather ironic that you talk about this, because 'this take it or leave it' fullfill not one, not two, not three, but rather four OS, that happen to be or Amiga OSs or Amiga like OSs, above all it suits far more Amigans and gives them much more freedom then your 'not take it nor leave it' reaction attitude ever would...


As usual, you totally miss the point. In the case of OS 4, as I have pointed out a million times, it is a matter of being allowed to do something. I am sure you perfectly know this, but it's easier to ignore it and flame someone, isn't it?


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Rogue 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 30-Jul-2006 9:21:18
#71 ]
OS4 Core Developer
Joined: 14-Jul-2003
Posts: 3999
From: Unknown

@georg

Quote:
Already something as simple/lightweight as a text editor class (which do exist) is already mostly overkill for Intuition boopsi gadget system.


Agreed. I never liked the whole BOOPSI approach either, it just makes complex UI tasks way too difficult. Matter of fact is I never liked any Amiga GUI toolkit, but I'd rather not go into specifics as this would make this thread even more OT.


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pixie 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 30-Jul-2006 11:17:28
#72 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 2796
From: Figueira da Foz - Portugal

Quote:
As usual, you totally miss the point. In the case of OS 4, as I have pointed out a million times, it is a matter of being allowed to do something. I am sure you perfectly know this, but it's easier to ignore it and flame someone, isn't it?

Well... probably I don't... allowed how?


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Framiga 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 30-Jul-2006 11:28:43
#73 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jul-2003
Posts: 2213
From: Unknown

guys this "thing" is really and badly beyond me! we are listening since years people whining

"we need a decent browser!!!!".... "our outdated browsers sucks"

an NOW that someone is close to do something about, we are fighting for a ####ing GUI?

hands up.... sorry but i don't take it!


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Samwel 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 31-Jul-2006 13:02:12
#74 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@Framiga

Fighting?! Who's fighting? Since when are discussions not allowed? I thought this was the
point of forums. Not to JUST PRAISE the authors as MorphZone & ANN often complains
that AW members only do when news arrive...

But okey if that's what you want..


Marcik you rule!


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Framiga 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 31-Jul-2006 13:59:50
#75 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 5-Jul-2003
Posts: 2213
From: Unknown

out of curiosity Samwel but... how old are you?

Last edited by Framiga on 31-Jul-2006 at 02:01 PM.


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deakmann 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 31-Jul-2006 18:39:46
#76 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 360
From: Unknown

@Samwel

Sure discussions are allowed but why is it that almost every thread even ones
like this which bring good news end up in arguments as opposed to discussion.

I for one am glad Marcik is working on this project, whichever way he goes
on selling it or settling for a bounty i`m happy , personally i`d prefer a
MUI GUI but i`m not overly bothered.

I just hope all this idiot shouting and accusing dosen`t put him off the
idea of doing/assisting an OS4 port.

I really can`t understand how people can hate over OS4 v MorphOS or MUI vs
Reaction or Bounty v Pay .

For God`s sake people get a life.

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Samwel 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 31-Jul-2006 19:34:02
#77 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2004
Posts: 3404
From: Sweden

@deakmann

I don't know why.. I'm usually not in them.

I'm also glad that Marcik is doing the port. I will also donate to, or buy from, him if a OS4
version appears from him or through the use of his code.

Why should it stop him? He's making a MOS version. Why should he care what I say?
I have my POV he probably has his. I haven't said anything personal against him.
The discussion was KHTML on MUI and possibly also ReAction for OS4. Not anything
against MUI or Marcik. I simply like the way you have themes on OS4 and how everything
changes. Maybe MUI4 changes this for the better?!

I know MUI is technically better and easier to code with compared to ReAction (atleast
until some GUI builder is released and more classes are made). But there are other
things to consider aswell as has been told.

I think a OS and all it's applications should conform to the same look and feel. That's
mostly why I'm for ReAction. MOS have the advantage that they use MUI for everything
so it looks the same all over. If OS4 keeps on using multiple GUI's it won't look as
nice IMHO.


@Framiga

Older than I want! Why do you ask?

Last edited by Samwel on 31-Jul-2006 at 07:36 PM.


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deakmann 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 31-Jul-2006 20:53:55
#78 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 360
From: Unknown

&Samwel

I wasn`t really having a go at you looking back at your comments there pretty
constructive but it seems others in the thread want to start another OS4 vs
MorphOS war , any excuse it seems:(

This is an interesting subject and perhaps the most important thing for both
OS`s right at the moment.

If your reading this Marcik I wish your project well it seems by far the best
chance we have at the moment of getting an upto date browser.

Anyone heard about Pahihia lately? Hope it`s still being worked on?

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deakmann 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 31-Jul-2006 21:11:06
#79 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 20-Mar-2003
Posts: 360
From: Unknown

&all

I`ve just gone back and checked the Morphzone thread, it seems the suggestion
of paying 49 Euro`s has caused quite a discussion and there`s also
some interesting new news there:-

http://www.morphzone.org/modules/newbb_plus/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4221&forum=32

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broadblues 
Re: Sputnik/KHTML port Update
Posted on 1-Aug-2006 14:27:26
#80 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 20-Jul-2004
Posts: 4443
From: Portsmouth England

Quote:

Quote:

I can't understand why the AWeb team is waiting



Because they fail to make anything other.


????

Did we fail to upgrade AWeb continuosly over the last three years, did we fails to port it to OS4 and MOS, did we fail to write a near full implementaion of javascript 1.5 / ecma?


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