@ggw
Sssssshhhhhh! If you're not careful you'll save the economy & stop banks making huge sums on credit interest.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Quote:

, which uses Real Time Raytracing for Ultra Realistic (tm) look?

Already exist according to http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/38145/135/

Quote:

Run Doom 5 & Quake 6, where you can see the individual hairs on the monsters blow realistically from the blast of an explosion?

Try Crysis 2 (Crytech 3 engine).

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@hans:
Here in Luxembourg, the taxes are at 15%.

@AmigaHeretic:
If you have a micro atx or atx box, you don't have to change it for informations.
Harddrives and opticale devices are cheaper than ATA ones now too.

@Vox:
We don't ask anything to install AmigaOS 4.1 and Linux on Sam's board, we use to do it for the same price for the complete configurations.
The price is not cheaper enough to ask some more money just for installing software ;)
For postall fees, please specify wich country.

@AmiTV:
I agree with that, but, if we make the same price than the contructor, we will make no little benefit in order to pay the big postal fees for getting the boards, and then, you will see Amiga resellers closing, is that you want ??

@Chris:
People can order Sam's boards as well as Minimig at our shop, even with the new Loriano's MiniBox that I'll receive in the next 8 days.

_________________
ZORAWSKI Laurent
Amedia Computer France
Your Amigadventurer
Mobile : (+33) 7 71 10 72 22
Fax : (+33) 3 87 57 07 21
Mail : laurent@amedia-computer.com
Site : http://www.amedia-computer.com
Site : http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/
MSN

@Anyone

If you seriously want to lodge a 90% profit loss, consecutively per quarter than you will try to drop prices, and in the process you might over stress your immune system.

I would reject the current trends of lowering prices, as they will only bankrupt the IT industry also.

We have 1000% more processing power, so why can't these Einsteins do the simple (buy / sell analysis modeling and projection) of price reduction and see how they are killing themselves literally.

What has happened to;
1) the break even analysis?
2) profit and loss sheet?
3) sustainability re-search & development.

IMHO we will take care ourselves, rather then hang ourselves with bared wire.

This dumb economic cycles of price reduction in the IT world must stop right now.
DO YOU HEAR ME, STOP IT, RIGHT NOW.... 500% price reduction is not expensive, its a nightmare == to cheap. Seriously!

_________________
Quote:

Easy Pocket Money, Freelancers & Experts Online

MiniMig FPGA, Sam440 Flex 733Mhz PPC, Amiga OS 4.1 Update 2, MorphOS 2.4, Other - AmiKit + Cloanto Amiga Forever 2008 + E-UAE, AmigaSYS

sometimes you think the amiga community is just hot air! all the waiting and moaning. now just moaning... are you serious or not?

I can only guess how many fuses such a system will blow in my house...

Houses are not build for such system. :)

I have already given it all it can take captain.. If I push it any more it will blow fuses...

_________________

BTW What is the ZigBee module??

_________________

ChrisH

No,I hadn't forgotten;and that was my point about the old Apples.When the prices are way higher than similar products you will not have the big market share.
Of course if you can sell enough to stay in business then niche market is all very well.
I was probably "spoiled" by finding a A500 new at my local Sears store for $199 when list was still $700 !

READ ABOUT INTEL...

INTEL Lost %90 of profit, for last quarter (the busiest quarter each year)
=== DOOMs Day - NO MARKET SHARE IS WORTH THAT!

Now they have or will be finalizing the axing of jobs... For the people that complain they have no-money its-too-expensive... Imagine what they will be able to afford when their JOB GET AXED also, due to domino effect / the food chain collapsing in the last known investor friendly safe heaven.

_________________
Quote:

Easy Pocket Money, Freelancers & Experts Online

MiniMig FPGA, Sam440 Flex 733Mhz PPC, Amiga OS 4.1 Update 2, MorphOS 2.4, Other - AmiKit + Cloanto Amiga Forever 2008 + E-UAE, AmigaSYS

@meet.mrnrg
I guess that shows the real cost of Intel's "Tick Tock" strategy, which aims to beat AMD into a bloody pulp...

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Quote:

Complete Sam system 930 euro, Powerstation 955,22 euro

So Hyperion should start porting AOS4.x to Powerstation as fast as possible.

_________________
Rock lobster bit me. My Workbench has always preferences. X1000 + AmigaOS4.1 FE
"Anyone can build a fast CPU. The trick is to build a fast system." -Seymour Cray

Another question:

What is currently considered to be the best GFX card for AOS4 (regarding 2D and 3D performance)?

Radeon 8500 (Pro) or Radeon 9200 or another one?

Quote:

I agree with that, but, if we make the same price than the contructor, we will make no little benefit in order to pay the big postal fees for getting the boards, and then, you will see Amiga resellers closing, is that you want ??

This is true, support Amiga dealer and ACube too. They are doing a great job in difficult time, not only in Amiga land.

_________________
ikir

Niice ... Shiping to Belgrade, Serbia

_________________
Future Acube and MOS supporter, fi di good, nothing fi di unprofessionals. Learn it harder way!

@faranheit
Quote:

@AmiTV: I agree with that, but, if we make the same price than the contructor, we will make no little benefit in order to pay the big postal fees for getting the boards, and then, you will see Amiga resellers closing, is that what you want?

Are you saying that you, as a dealer for ACube, is paying ACube retail price on that board, then?

Don't get me wrong. I'm glad there is *something* to run OS4. When it's available. But at the pricing of SAM, it's lack of usefulness for any other OS (yes, I *could* run Linux on one, but...why would I? A $300 netbook will outperform SAM/Linux, as would a half the price Mac Mini and many others)...SAM's a stop-gap at best. I'd love to be able to support an Amiga company, but there are limits - I'll be amazed if SAM sells more than half the number of A1s, even if it's available, at or near current pricing..and that isn't really sustainable as a goal. Hyperion and some OS4 devs need to make some $, and I have no clue who's making $ on SAM sales - I'd wager not much anywhere, or at least not real money. If 500 SAMs are sold (a number I find highly optimistic in current pricing/performance/uselessness outside of OS4), what's that going to do? Net Hyperion 500 OS4 sales at let's say $100 USD 'profit' each, leaving some allowance for dealers, etc..wow, 50k. That's probably what HJF and others are used to making in a year. (should be higher/near double or so, but allowing for lower pay rates in Europe, etc).

How much is 50k 'worth' versus OS4 bills and development? And, what about Hyperion itself?

If you're paying retail to ACube on this board, well, then ACube is the only one likely seeing any level of $ here, or at least percentage-wise. yet the pricing itself guarantees low sales.

let's compare that to a *true* low cost of entry system. These are examples, and I know Hyperion and HJFs dislike of them, but...had Moana gone forward, then expanded to 'any G4 Mac Mini.' Let's see, I'd wager likely 100k or more. Likewise, PS3..in the millions. A VM environment using QEMU. Even the Troika board(s), which promised to be more in line pricing and/or performance-wise. An Efika. The chance of actually selling OS4 then (forget packaged/boxed, go download only) increases exponentially. Heck, even the PowerStation from YDL at $1250 is a steal by comparison. Even if a VM environment is a stop-gap solution (can you tell me SAM itself is NOT?), Hyperion can *sell* OS4 and make more money. (No, I'm not saying *any* dev is free, here, though)

NRG can go on all he'd like about how pricing should remain high, and everyone can even justify it. Low volumes = higher cost. Dealer markup on top of that = even higher. You don't sell at 'boutique prices' when there's little compelling to justify it, and today at least, for desktop/home use, especially at that performance level, there just isn't, besides the few AOS fans, limiting sales significantly.

Basically, we've got the wrong solution here. Until such a time as someone can produce a reasonably priced, stable, *available* system, you're guaranteeing desktop sales to a very limited few, where the number could be much higher. 'Custom' hardware is *not* the answer, while we're seeing pricing and performance of what it is for SAM. If the Amy, Panda, or *any* board had made it to market, with an OS4 port, at half the price of SAM, with similar or better specs (or, you know, a VM, mac, PS3, whatever..), it's not so bad, but the cost of entry is simply too high for anything more than a precious few.

All in all, a bad situation. I'd determined to sell my A1200/PPC, and use the $ to buy a SAM. I have an A1 already but wanted to support someone making hardware for OS4. Were any of the above systems previously mentioned supported, heck, I'd have bought more than one of them. As it is, I have to choke any time I see the pricing on SAM. Maybe I'll suck it up at some point, or consider it simply an act of 'charity,' dunno yet.

Maybe Hyperion have some market and some plans elsewhere, and if so, I hope they achieve it. SAM could ahve been interesting, if they'd managed to do something with the FPGA, like minimig or similar, with changes to OS4 to allow execution via FPGA of 68k code (Note - I don't know if the FPGA is fast enough for this or not), but now it looks like the FPGA isn't even there on all SAMs being shipped?

Either way, SAM is not the answer, not at the price it's at today. Or if it's *an* answer, it's not to the question being asked by many of us for desktop use.

Having said all that...I wish ACube well. I hope they actually pay attention in forums, and actually try to help support some of their users with issues. I hope they come out with a faster SAM, at a price that doesn't make me choke. I hope they make some huge sale, that drops SAM prices. And I hope that Hyperion manages to sell 100k copies of OS4. But I don't see any of that happening with SAM400, flex or not.

_________________
Are we not done with the same silly arguments and flames yet??!

@Reth:
The only Radeon PCI available is the 9250, so, there is no real other choice for the Sam440Flex for the moment.

Laurent aka Faranheit

_________________
ZORAWSKI Laurent
Amedia Computer France
Your Amigadventurer
Mobile : (+33) 7 71 10 72 22
Fax : (+33) 3 87 57 07 21
Mail : laurent@amedia-computer.com
Site : http://www.amedia-computer.com
Site : http://faranheit.dyndns.org:8080/FPGA%20Arcade/
MSN

What do you mean with "the only"?

Do other Radeons (9000xy, 9200xy, 8500xy) not work technically?

Some of them are still available (new or used)!

Bye

Quote:

Complete Sam system 930 euro, Powerstation 955,22 euro

Are not these powerstations recycled servers?

_________________
No PowerPC, No Fun
Make Amiga Great Again

@wegster

I agree with most things you have said but this is the equation:

nobody (or a few) buy the SAM = High Price = very few boards = no profit = developer/business leaves the market

And I like the specs of that Yello Linux Dog or Linux Dog Yello or whatever it is called but it looks like an elephant...

_________________
www.loriano.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

@wegster
No one is denying that they'd love to see cheaper/faster machines capable of running OS4, and I'm sure this is top of Hyperion's priorities, but let's be a little realistic here: We are damn lucky to have ANY hardware to run OS4 on, so complaining about price/performance right now is pretty silly IMHO. (And one gets the feeling you'd rather be bitching about lack of hardware - don't you remember the frustration of the last several years?!?).

If OS4 & Sam440 sells well enough, then OF COURSE we will (probably) see faster/cheaper/better machines to run OS4. But you have to have patience, as things move slowly in cash-strapped Amiga-land (esp with the current economy). In an ideal world things would be different, but we aren't living in one, so this is what we have to live with.

If you want to point any fingers at the causes of our current situation, I suggest Amiga Inc (#1) for deciding OS4 should use PPC instead of x86, and Amiga Inc (#2) for being unreasonable with Hyperion. And perhaps Amiga Inc & Hyperion for letting the contract get totally out-of-date only a year or two after it was signed, and then not doing anything about that.

Last edited by ChrisH on 21-Jan-2009 at 07:12 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...