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uponthevoid 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 28-Nov-2016 10:37:02
#721 ]
Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2015
Posts: 11
From: Unknown

@pavlor
I guess he just really loves soldering and from that perspective - fair enough.
from my own personal perspective, if I was spending that much money on a product I would prefer to have some way of tracking my order rather than paying the money, then waiting months without hearing anything, whilst I kneel and pray at the letterbox. at I'm not criticising, that's just how I would feel about it.

It's an amazing piece of hardware though, obviously.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 28-Nov-2016 13:35:28
#722 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1223
From: Norway

@uponthevoid

"pray at the letterbox".

I would feel the same way, if it wasnt for the fact that the Apollo-Teams trackrecord is very good, and the waitingperiod is something everyone has been exposed to. Additionally, most threads that pop up contains responses from customers like me that explains how it works AND begs people to join the #apollo-team channel on irc.freenode.org server. There the developers are reachable pretty much daily, and responds to questions and concerns.

I too thought the wait was long, but it was well worth it. And I spent the months of waiting in the IRC channel chatting with other "Vampires".

And a new forum; http://forum.apollo-accelerators.com/

Last edited by Overflow on 28-Nov-2016 at 01:42 PM.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 28-Nov-2016 15:05:00
#723 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5494
From: Unknown

@pavlor

Quote:
This simply doesn´t make sense. If they are able to "mass produce" Vampire boards for 250-300 EUR, building one by one is waste of their time. I think Majsta want fully non-commercial production - which is noble of course, but unrealistic with such high demand.


you can simply familiarize yourself with majstas own view on this:
http://www.majsta.com/modules.php?name=News&file=categories&op=newindex&catid=7

obviously for him it is an underground kinda project, and in recollection of all these "official" statements of "military grade" stuff and the like, this independant punk basement attitude sounds very sympathetic to me. regardless of what all better informed people who usually didnt lift their finger to do anything themselves may preach, its not their choice and responsibility. contrary to approaches like os4, where people need to be convinced to replace their amigas by some ppc hardware "to support the platform" and its future, apollo/vampire looks self sustaining and convincing by itself. if you dont like the way the project is carried out, simply stay away from it, there is enough others who like it.

Last edited by wawa on 28-Nov-2016 at 03:06 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 28-Nov-2016 at 03:05 PM.

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Beans 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 28-Nov-2016 15:32:06
#724 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 251
From: Bear Delaware USA

@wawa

And he's obviously into pain, as these could be assembled much easier using a third party.

"doesn´t make sense..."

Yeah Pavlor, its way eccentric, but then people believe in any mythology they care to.

I remember when Gunnar and Thomas claimed to have so called 'FE133' 68060 processors.
I contacted Freescale with the identification numbers and received a statement that it was invalid and that NO 68060 has ever been produced with a rating above 75 MHz.

But people think whatever they want to.

And they are ALLOWED to, no big deal, its their life.

However:
Quote:
imply stay away from it, there is enough others who like it


Childish in the extreme.

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mr2 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 28-Nov-2016 16:05:11
#725 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 3-Feb-2004
Posts: 619
From: Poland

@wawa

Quote:
if you dont like the way the project is carried out, simply stay away from it, there is enough others who like it.


Can you stay away from AmigaOS4 threads? Obviously you are unable to follow your own advice in this matter

_________________
Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM R9250 128MB SB Live!

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 28-Nov-2016 16:25:11
#726 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5494
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:
I remember when Gunnar and Thomas claimed to have so called 'FE133' 68060 processors.


another issue that had no real (negative) impact on anthing or anyone save the progress on natami maybe. i may remind you, gunnar has even advocated the use of coldfire for some time, till he has found out better and wisely changed his mind, you may use that too against him. though even if i dont remember very well, but there were and still are others that let fool themselves with chinese forgeries around the whole scene, even among tech aware people. im constantly seeing threads of such a content. in fact fpga approach may finally put and end to these kind of issues. but well, dont let me spoil your fun dragging just every piece of dirt, however irrelevant, in order to harm apollo team credibility even if a little bit. funny enough im still not seeing that ppc board of yours you have promissed to present us within a year, while you are calling others on their mistakes, but im sure pavlor will pat your shoulder anyway.

Last edited by wawa on 28-Nov-2016 at 04:25 PM.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 28-Nov-2016 16:31:58
#727 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5494
From: Unknown

@mr2

Quote:
Can you stay away from AmigaOS4 threads? Obviously you are unable to follow your own advice in this matter


as os4 customer and someone who was continously lectured about os4 superiority, amiga obscurity, the need to "upgrade" to os4 and ppc hardware in order "to support platforms development" and the like i feel im within my legit entitlement to discuss such matters. especially other current os4 users are repeating today what i dared to tell earlier.

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pavlor 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 28-Nov-2016 17:10:48
#728 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 8100
From: Unknown

@wawa

Still 4.0?

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Beans 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 28-Nov-2016 19:56:45
#729 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 251
From: Bear Delaware USA

@wawa

Actually, its funny you mentioned Coldfire, because I was just looking at a V4 sample that Freescale sent me a few years ago this morning.
Atari hackers are getting results going in that direction. It has serious issues if you want 68K compatibility, though.
AmigaOS, IF the source was available, could easily be recompiled for Coldfire, and operating at 200-266MHz it would run a LOT faster than with a 50-75MHz 68K.
But recompiling all software running under AmigaOS isn't a realistic option (even though this is the most practical solution for running OS4 code on Tabor - then again, that's not that practical).

The "FE133" nonsense was kind of painful.
I had direct contacts with Motorola engineers in the days when the 68K was still an driving issue and I was pretty sure their were no special "secret sauce" '060s that ran at unusually high speeds.

As to the PPC project, I'm not apologizing. I put a lot of effort into that. $2K in new drafting software, contacting Freescale reps, Chinese board fabricators, and arranging other resources.
And I eventually dragged Bill Buck into it and he had a meeting in person with Freescale reps.
It fell apart because Freescale wasn't interested. Plain and simple.
And considering what has happened since, I'm cool with it.

"Promised you"?

Did I take your money before delivery of a product (which seems to be an Amiga tradition)?

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 28-Nov-2016 23:20:31
#730 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5494
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:
Actually, its funny you mentioned Coldfire, because I was just looking at a V4 sample that Freescale sent me a few years ago this morning.


we had been all over this subject few years ago on a1k, inclusive gunnar and consorts getting dev boards from gensi and testing hardcore scenarios, which led to understanding why elbox coldfire accel has never been released. real life results simply wasnt satisfactory. you are not disclosing anything new.

Quote:
The "FE133" nonsense was kind of painful.

yawn. none even remembers, get over it one day.

Quote:
As to the PPC project, I'm not apologizing. I put a lot of effort into that. $2K in new drafting software, contacting Freescale reps, Chinese board fabricators, and arranging other resources.

your own fault being too full of yourself, which as you continously imply, gunnar is. you have put on some inquiries and bought some unnecessary software. just to fail. he made some actual development over the years and came up with a proper result, gaining everybodys recognition. on the other side you have repeatedly talked about your knowlege and your contacts, and as far as i remember, never delivered anything of value for the scene, for money or free of charge. correct me if im wrong.

Quote:
"Promised you"?

Did I take your money before delivery of a product (which seems to be an Amiga tradition)?


no, not me, since i dont accept promises from you or associates. but you have promissed the os4 faithful to deliver hardware within a year or eat your socks, or some sort of this... (do i need to drag that again into the light) which isnt neccessary to apologize about again, since you have already did, after i have called you upon it. if only you have not called gunnar repeatedly on your own faults, i wouldnt mention it ever again.

Last edited by wawa on 29-Nov-2016 at 12:38 AM.
Last edited by wawa on 28-Nov-2016 at 11:24 PM.
Last edited by wawa on 28-Nov-2016 at 11:21 PM.

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Beans 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 29-Nov-2016 2:06:22
#731 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 251
From: Bear Delaware USA

@wawa

What have you ever done other than forment dissention?
I actually was involved in producing real hardware, not toys for geeks.
And you're mistaken, I had no interest in OS4 users.

The idea of waiting indefinately for a port of OS4 never appealed to me in the least, nor would I ever be interested in throwing pearls before most Amiga users.

The board was primarily for MY use, and as I am buying an X5000, then waiting for a move to X64, I couldn't care less what the more rabid amongst you thinks.

I had my fun when 68K hardware was relevant.
Too much focus on a dead horse just makes you all look pathetic.

"OS4 faithful" You don't get how ridiculous that is, do you?

Last edited by Beans on 29-Nov-2016 at 02:17 AM.
Last edited by Beans on 29-Nov-2016 at 02:13 AM.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 29-Nov-2016 6:08:40
#732 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5494
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:
What have you ever done other than forment dissention?


im doing or at least trying to do my share even now, according to what im able to in that area, which is not my professional area of expertise alas. but not going around it as much. the forum activity doesnt have anything to do with this.

Quote:
I had my fun when 68K hardware was relevant.
Too much focus on a dead horse just makes you all look pathetic.


its all fine and good. none is trying to talk you into anything, so why dont you leave apollo team do their part without constantly telling how wrong they are?

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 29-Nov-2016 8:13:17
#733 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1223
From: Norway

@Beans

"rabid amongst you"

What does that even mean?
That fits everyone posting (past or present) if you compare us to mainstream hardware users.
A computer is really just a tool to accomplish xyz task, or entertainment (games, music, movies etc). For most (all?) it would be more time and cost effective to throw out all AOS 3/4, aros, morphos related hardware and software.
My wintel pc got more memory I know what to do with, dual monitors, everything plug and play, etc. You all know this.
On every Amigarelated platform you have to tweak xyz program, configuration, startup sequence, hunt for libraries, you name it. Its sheer lunacy when you think of it.

So why do we do it? The answers probably differs;
-Its fun?
-Its challenging?
-Its nostalgic/fun?
-Its good to develop alternatives?
-Its enough for my needs. I dont buy into the "must have the last Iphone model hysteria" when the last model you bought in 2012 works just fine for what you need. Same goes for 68k/ppc.
-Its fun/intresting to develop for a small platform where the contribution of even one person makes a big difference, as compared to wintel, where you are one invisible person out of millions.
I belive ssolie said something to that effect in Amiwest 2015. He enjoys it because its different.

Personally its a mix of all of the above for me.

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OlafS25 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 29-Nov-2016 9:57:49
#734 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 4947
From: Unknown

@Beans

In a way MorphOS is a "dead horse" too or is there any new competitive software there? Or any new software at all? So we are all riding "dead horses", the only question which "dead horse" fits the interests of most users.

If you look at current developments and real orders you can guess what I think...

And BTW I think nothing will change that, the ISA change and promised improvements of your favorite OS come too late, this should have been done many years ago. Now only few developers left, who will adapt and recompile sources for AMD64 after ISA change? And a OS without software is more or less useless, don´t you think?

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terminills 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 29-Nov-2016 11:08:21
#735 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1220
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:
What have you ever done other than forment dissention?



You might want to check the AROS ML. wawa has been very active in trying to fix 68K support in AROS. Your failure to notice is not the same as him not doing anything.

_________________
Support AROS sponsor a developer.

"AROS is prolly illegal ~ Evert Carton" intentionally quoted out of context for dramatic effect

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Beans 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 29-Nov-2016 13:04:17
#736 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 251
From: Bear Delaware USA

@Overflow

"Rabid"? When I start getting personal attacks over pointing out flaws in projects I support, THAT is what I am talking about.
This thin skinned need to justify your on preferences in a hobbyist pursuit.
Its childish.
I don't need to justify my past, I earned a living at it and I'm justifyably proud of it, even if we lost the Motorola vs Intel war.
As my education is in business management, I am impressed that Aeon will actually generate a profit on its latest products.
That is what seperates a business from a hobby, that it is profitable.

And, as I support ALL the forms of Amiga expansion, the continued attempt to paint me into one corner or another is dismaying.
Did I fail on the PPC board project? Yep. But I tried. And I got helpful response from less than a handful of you.
The one person that did offer to help research this, Bill Buck, actually runs a sucessful commercial venture.
And you folks have had no problem dumping on him in the past either.

Will the Vampire2 project succeed? Who knows. Its a good idea, but the research, production and marketing elements all carry those eccentricities that seem typical of Amiga hobbyist ventures.

So do I care that Wawa works on an alternate NG project that has never gotten out of beta?
One that is given away?
Or that even my old friend Gunnar gets weird on me when I make the mistake of offering constructive criticism?
Not really.
I just let out one more tired little sigh, shake my head to clear it, and move on.

Last edited by Beans on 29-Nov-2016 at 01:05 PM.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 29-Nov-2016 13:51:51
#737 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5494
From: Unknown

@Beans

Quote:
When I start getting personal attacks


if calling you on your attacks against apollo team members is being personal, that is..

Quote:
The one person that did offer to help research this, Bill Buck, actually runs a sucessful commercial venture.
And you folks have had no problem dumping on him in the past either.


not sure where i ever said anything against bill buck.. its not him, who proposed a rather utopian project. seems, he rather talked you out of that, so why you are constantly bringing him up for support?

Quote:
Will the Vampire2 project succeed? Who knows. Its a good idea, but the research, production and marketing elements all carry those eccentricities that seem typical of Amiga hobbyist ventures.


thats their way to go about it. gunnar and majsta are well aware that their procedure may be taken as orthodox and they have made their position clear. its their choice, and they owe us, neither you nor me, nothing, as we have not substantially contributed to their project. if anything, id rather listen to complaints by someone who has actually contributed to the project like matthey or maybe meynaf, especially if they speak up, then it has at least some technical ground, not purely personal issues.

Quote:
So do I care that Wawa works on an alternate NG project that has never gotten out of beta?


it doesnt matter for me if you care. you have asked, and received an answer. for my part, at least, i care a bit, and aros is about as usable as any other amiga offshot, so far i can tell, even if it deosnt amount to much, objectively.

still i yet have to knowingly come across anything you contributed to for the community, be it morphos, why not.

Quote:
Or that even my old friend Gunnar gets weird on me when I make the mistake of offering constructive criticism?


i think i have enough interaction with gunnar, to suspect that he is a reasonable person. he may come over a bit of grandeur, but he doenst go off at anyone just for the sake of it. rather on the contrary, considering all the flak he has to sustain. so maybe, if there is bad blood and if you really call him a friend, you might check if there was nothing wrong on your part..

Last edited by wawa on 29-Nov-2016 at 01:54 PM.

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wawa 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 29-Nov-2016 13:58:52
#738 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Jan-2008
Posts: 5494
From: Unknown

@Beans

ok, i apologise if i was coming over too emotional, but the merit of my comments still stands.

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Overflow 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 29-Nov-2016 17:34:10
#739 ]
Super Member
Joined: 12-Jun-2012
Posts: 1223
From: Norway

ShK shared a Vampire500 video using Arties Netsurf NoFPU build, while playing MP3. Pretty neat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzbOPe0csxg

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Beans 
Re: News about Vampire and Apollo
Posted on 29-Nov-2016 18:43:42
#740 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 26-Aug-2016
Posts: 251
From: Bear Delaware USA

@wawa

Quote:
so why dont you leave apollo team do their part without constantly telling how wrong they are?


Right...and continue to wait while Gunnar and company dicks around with unnecessary features while not finishing the fpu and the guy building them insists on assembling each one by hand.

Since your primary Amiga endeavor involves a perpetually unfinished product,
maybe they could benefit from some advice from those that have actually produced something.

I'd like to actually be able to buy one before I die of old age.

And I owe Gunnar an apology for doubting he could produce something marketable, you...not so much.

BUT, now that we are back on track and no longer focused on diversions, let's by all means get back to the thread topic.

Last edited by Beans on 29-Nov-2016 at 06:53 PM.

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