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PosterThread
DAX 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 12-Oct-2010 19:35:24
#261 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@scuzz
Quote:
Why am I not interested in this subject. For a minute there I thought we were talking about the real deal not a company rebadging stuff. Never mind...

+1

Last edited by DAX on 12-Oct-2010 at 07:36 PM.

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

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cd32 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 0:00:40
#262 ]
New Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2003
Posts: 8
From: Unknown

It's back... and better than ever! Inside our all new Commodore PC64, you'll find an Intel dual core Atom 525, Nvidea Ion2 graphics, slot or tray load DVD (Bluray optional) 2or 4 GB DDR3 memory, 1GB Hdd, multi format card reader/writer and a custom professional mechanical keyboard using genuine Cherry switches, for that authentic IBM touch and click experience.

i think they mean 1tb hard drive or all i got to say is wth

Last edited by cd32 on 13-Oct-2010 at 12:01 AM.

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Yssing 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 0:04:27
#263 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1078
From: Unknown

@cd32

How can this be better than the old stuff??
Yes, I know its faster, but its just any other wintel based system in an other casing... nothing new there, at all...

_________________

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cd32 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 0:20:19
#264 ]
New Member
Joined: 13-Oct-2003
Posts: 8
From: Unknown

@Yssing

i agree but i keep my eye on anything amiga or commodore releated just a bad habit or a loyal one guess am just curious like everyone else is

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eniacfoa 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 1:53:04
#265 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 4-Sep-2007
Posts: 355
From: Melbourne

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
@cd32

How can this be better than the old stuff??
Yes, I know its faster, but its just any other wintel based system in an other casing... nothing new there, at all...


you say that as if a crappy old ppc board is a new thing....

_________________
In a world of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

http://ozconspiracyhouse.myfastforum.org

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persia 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 2:42:43
#266 ]
Super Member
Joined: 14-Jul-2009
Posts: 1059
From: Unknown

@Akiko

But Asiarim and C=USA agree that the license is for computer in a keyboard computers. Asiarim does not mislabel them as "all in ones" like C=USA does, I suspect C=USA's mislabelling is a sneaky way to try to extend the licence to true all-in-ones like laptops...

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Hammer 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 2:58:51
#267 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4850
From: Australia

@ruben

Quote:

ruben wrote:
@Hammer

I love black Amigas

Quote:
Would A500x have it's AMIGA logo glow like the following DELL's XPS?


Please, no! That makes it look that those cheesy water cooler mods of the 90's...

? My 2010 Dell Studio XPS 1645 laptop's keyboard glows in the dark (and indoor day time).

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Yssing 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 18:24:24
#268 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1078
From: Unknown

@eniacfoa

hmm, what is a crappy old ppc board? SAM460 or X1000?
Any way, x86 will never be amiga, no matter how many amiga stickers you slap on it.

PPC/RISC was the way Commodore was headed AFAIK before they went belly up.

_________________

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 18:30:20
#269 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1342
From: CRO

@Yssing

Commodore was headed to x86, just like Apple did... be it by force or by planning, they would end up using x86 in 2010. Thinking anything else is just fantasizing and wishful thinking.

PPC is dead as a home computing PC platform architecture.

_________________

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pavlor 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 18:38:00
#270 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9494
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
Commodore was headed to x86, just like Apple did...


Source? (If you mean old Commodore)

Quote:
PPC is dead as a home computing PC platform architecture.


Yes.

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WolfToTheMoon 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 18:41:12
#271 ]
Super Member
Joined: 2-Sep-2010
Posts: 1342
From: CRO

@pavlor

what source do you need... look around you. x86 rules the PC market completely as it is today.

_________________

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Anonymous 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 13-Oct-2010 18:53:48
# ]

0
0

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
@eniacfoa

hmm, what is a crappy old ppc board? SAM460 or X1000?
Any way, x86 will never be amiga, no matter how many amiga stickers you slap on it.

PPC/RISC was the way Commodore was headed AFAIK before they went belly up.


If you're basing your whole Philosophy Of Amiga on a chip that's invisible to end-users without a screw-driver, I'd have expected something more concrete than "AFAIK"!

Chris

Last edited by clebin on 13-Oct-2010 at 06:54 PM.

 
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Yssing 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 3:08:27
#273 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Apr-2003
Posts: 1078
From: Unknown

@clebin

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/ppchistory.html

Quote:
Despite the budget cuts placed upon them, the Commodore engineering team were developing several solutions that would allow the Amiga brand to be associated with faster, better RISC processors. At the time, the PowerPC alliance was not even a gleam in IBM's eye. Instead, Commodore licensed Hewlett Packard's PA-RISC processor

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Hammer 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 7:41:48
#274 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4850
From: Australia

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
@eniacfoa

hmm, what is a crappy old ppc board? SAM460 or X1000?
Any way, x86 will never be amiga, no matter how many amiga stickers you slap on it.

PPC/RISC was the way Commodore was headed AFAIK before they went belly up.

That's HP PA-RISC.

As for X86 future, refer to Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20091

My claim is and has been that AmigaOS, or a clone, should have been ported to a PC.
...
This runs many times faster than any "neo-Amiga" class PPC machine

----------------
PowerPC G3 has more instructions than Pentium II (part of the P6 family) i.e. refer to http://arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/risc-cisc/rvc-5.html

Minus SSE instructions, Intel Core (part of the P6+ family) series still has similar instruction count as the Pentium II (part of the P6 family).
---
From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reduced..._set_computing

A common misunderstanding of the phrase "reduced instruction set computer" is the mistaken idea that instructions are simply eliminated, resulting in a smaller set of instructions. In fact, over the years, RISC instruction sets have grown in size, and today many of them have a larger set of instructions than many CISC CPUs.[6][7] Some RISC processors such as the INMOS Transputer have instruction sets as large as, say, the CISC IBM System/370; and conversely, the DEC PDP-8 – clearly a CISC CPU because many of its instructions involve multiple memory accesses – has only 8 basic instructions, plus a few extended instructions.

The term "reduced" in that phrase was intended to describe the fact that the amount of work any single instruction accomplishes is reduced – at most a single data memory cycle – compared to the "complex instructions" of CISC CPUs that may require dozens of data memory cycles in order to execute a single instruction.[8] In particular, RISC processors typically have separate instructions for I/O and data processing; as a consequence, industry observers have started using the terms "register-register" or "load-store" to describe RISC processors.

Some CPUs have been retroactively dubbed RISC — a Byte magazine article once referred to the 6502 as "the original RISC processor" due to its simplistic and nearly orthogonal instruction set (most instructions work with most addressing modes) as well as its 256 zero-page "registers". The 6502 is no load/store design however: arithmetic operations may read memory, and instructions like INC and ROL even modify memory. Furthermore, orthogonality is equally often associated with "CISC". However, the 6502 may be regarded as similar to RISC (and early machines) in the fact that it uses no microcode sequencing. However, the well known fact that it employed longer but fewer clock cycles compared to many contemporary microprocessors was due to a more asynchronous design with less subdivision of internal machine cycles. This is similar to early machines, but not to RISC.
----------------------------------------------------
Read and learn

The Concept of the Instruction Set Architecture from http://arstechnica.com/cpu/2q00/x86f...-future-2.html

RISC vs. CISC: the Post-RISC Era from http://arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/risc-cisc/rvc-1.html

RISC and CISC, Side by Side from http://arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/risc-cisc/rvc-5.html

RISC vs. CISC Conclusion from http://arstechnica.com/cpu/4q99/risc-cisc/rvc-6.html

Both the Athlon and the P6 run the CISC x86 ISA in what amounts to hardware emulation, but they translate the x86 instructions into smaller, RISC-like operations that fed into a fully post-RISC core. Their cores have a number of RISC features (LOAD/STORE memory access, pipelined execution, reduced instructions, expanded register count via register renaming), to which are added all of the post-RISC features we've discussed. The Athlon muddies the waters even further in that it uses both direct execution and a microcode engine for instruction decoding. A crucial difference between the Athlon (and P6) and the G4 is that, as already noted, the Athlon must translate x86 instructions into smaller RISC ops.

----
Do you want to restart X86 vs PPC from http://www.osnews.com/comments/3997 ?

Time dig out barefeats.com benchmarks again...

Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 08:24 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 08:15 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 07:59 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 07:53 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 07:47 AM.
Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 07:45 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Hammer 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 7:57:22
#275 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4850
From: Australia

@pavlor

Quote:

pavlor wrote:
@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
Commodore was headed to x86, just like Apple did...


Source? (If you mean old Commodore)

Quote:
PPC is dead as a home computing PC platform architecture.


Yes.

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=20091

Dave Haynie (lead engineer of C= Amiga) opinion on Amiga Successors


My claim is and has been that AmigaOS, or a clone, should have been ported to a PC.
...
...
This runs many times faster than any "neo-Amiga" class PPC machine

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Hammer 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 8:01:34
#276 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 9-Mar-2003
Posts: 4850
From: Australia

@Yssing

Quote:

Yssing wrote:
@clebin

http://www.amigahistory.co.uk/ppchistory.html

Quote:
Despite the budget cuts placed upon them, the Commodore engineering team were developing several solutions that would allow the Amiga brand to be associated with faster, better RISC processors. At the time, the PowerPC alliance was not even a gleam in IBM's eye. Instead, Commodore licensed Hewlett Packard's PA-RISC processor


Around that time, AMD was still working on AMD K5 (based on AMD 29K RISC CPUs) i.e. one of the first RISC86.

Last edited by Hammer on 14-Oct-2010 at 08:32 AM.

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

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Manu 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 9:18:24
#277 ]
Super Member
Joined: 4-Feb-2004
Posts: 1561
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

I see on the SolidWorks animation that the PC64 will read quite a few memory cards too. How about selling a MMC with an VICE emulator on it a slick OS that starts the C64 instantly ? Been thought about before by you I know but are you going to implement that ? Will the product be able to do that "out of the box".

_________________
AmigaOS or MorphOS on x86 would sell orders of magnitude more than the current,
hardware-intensive solutions. And they'd go faster.-- D.Haynie

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pavlor 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 9:29:57
#278 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Jul-2005
Posts: 9494
From: Unknown

@WolfToTheMoon

Quote:
what source do you need... look around you. x86 rules the PC market completely as it is today.


You wrote: "Commodore was headed to x86, just like Apple did..."
Commodore went bankrupt in 1994, thus I wonder where is source for your claim. You probably mean CommodoreUSA...

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Anonymous 
Re: The New Commodore C500 and Commodore PC64
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 10:51:21
# ]

0
0

@Yssing

If you were confident to put your opinion forward that strongly, then you shouldn't have had to Google it to find out that Commodore had nothing to do with PowerPC.

Ironically though, Commodore did sell x86-based PCs!

Chris

 
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drstrangelove 
Re: The New Commodore Amiga 500x and Commodore 64x
Posted on 14-Oct-2010 12:30:59
#280 ]
Member
Joined: 16-Aug-2005
Posts: 93
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie

I believe that the initiative for C=USA may be the best opportunity for the Amiga world, it is clear that x86-64 architecture is the most advanced and fastest evolving in the market for personal computers and entertainment, also think that the best option for those who love the Amiga is AROS.

Just need a step by C=USA:

You must provide the sources of the drivers of their systems to fully integrate into AROS.

Benefits:
C=USA would be completely legitimate from the point of view of the community to be considered part of the Amiga world, would also help AROS in his only weak point: the drivers of the system.

........everybody happy

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