@jorkany

Quote:

If I were running a business and my customers (potential or otherwise) were complaining, I'd try to do something about it. If they continue to complain then that's my fault, not theirs.

That kind of attitude is perhaps the one to have when trying to make a good deal in a market with alot of options and intense competition, but it's not the kind of attitude that will help us in a situation where there are no options to choose from at all and investing your time and money in trying to be the one to deliver requires a madman's mentality. There obviously are a few individuals crazy enough to engage themselves in such foolish enterprise, think of it as charity if you like, who are we to complain? If you don't want to buy their product whenever it becomes available for some reason, just don't.

It seems as some people have forgotten about what we're doing here and complain like they would be shopping for a toaster down at their local supermarket or something... Face it, the Amiga is in cardiac arrest and has no life insurance, now is not the time to argue about which doctor is better than the other.

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MINDRELEASE.net - The Non-Commercial Network of Digital Arts.

Samworks D & C - Professional Web Development (in Swedish)

@Toaks
Quote:

hatchi: yes, you asked if i would share it with you and i said .. (basically) no, that would be unethical.

Ok, of course you don't need to share if that would be 'unethical' for you. But honestly, I don't see how answering a question like "What people are involved in Troika?" has to do with ethics at all.
Look, the Troika's credibility problem has imho to do with two things:

1) There is lack of actual evidence of any progress being made. Sorry, but photographs of some RAM, screen grabs of board layouts from Summer 2005 and "version 1.4 of Amy'05 is nearly complete" statements don't help too much. There were too many Amiga-companies in the past who have gone exactly the same way and either haven't delivered anything or were shown to be hoaxes in the end. So why doesn't Troika do anything to vary from the usual here?

Suggestion: Either a complete disclosure from the beginning with status reports you can trust (leaving out the waffle) or total silence until you can acutally deliver/sell something.

2) Apart from Ian Steadman (who has hardware development experience and worked on some smaller Amiga-projects before), there is no publically available information who "Troika" is.

Suggestion: Troika could gain a lot of credibility by putting up a staff-page and listing real-names along with some background info of the people who are involved.

I know that Troika is "in product development" - that's why credibility is even more important now. If you don't care about credibility at all, why don't you choose to remain silent until you actually have something *real* to present to us? Your present way of doing "progress reports" exactly contradicts your former TA-statement that "It would be unprofessional to comment on our business dealings, and we would rather demo a working product."

Heck, just after 3 posts on Amiga.org, the Minimig-guy from Holland (Dennis) had already convinced 99% of the former critics who were shouting "hoax!" that his project is "for real". I wonder why Troika still hasn't managed to do so?

I don't know whether to be happy or cry, I seem to see the same arguments over and over again. If Troika are doing as they say then this is great news but there seems to be many that think this is just another piece of vaporware.
I think I shall just sit back and wait patiently and hope better things are to come.


Or should I just give up and go and bye an Apple computer.

i went on the Tundra website and i couldnt find a Tsi 7448 in the product section?

I found the 109 and it siad it was 200mhz??

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The 7448 is a G4 cpu and the Tsi109 is the Tundra chip (host bridge chip).

Last edited by Dirk-B on 28-May-2006 at 12:31 PM.

_________________
A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

ohhh right... duhh

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Hehe, No Problemo.

Btw. i am not that an expert also.

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Edited - HWGA - T&P Reason:

Flame/Attacks: Do not flame! Flaming refers to derogatory, abusive, threatening, sarcastic, rude, or otherwise mean-spirited messages directed at members/users. Be cautious when using sarcasm and humour. Without facial expressions and tone of voice, they do not translate easily over the Internet in posts and may be perceived as flaming. Report the flame posts immediately to an Amigaworld Team Member so that the situation can be dealt with immediately.

Last edited by Herewegoagain on 29-May-2006 at 03:11 AM.

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The problem with AmigaOS on PPC isn't that PPC is big-endian. The problem with AmigaOS on PPC is that PPC is dead-endian.

dungeondweller: well i would put it more like , Smiles should not be used in news items.

Last edited by Toaks on 28-May-2006 at 03:41 PM.

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@Kronos

Quote:

Care to explain what this has to do with MorphOS ???

Nothing! So why do you bring it up?

I said MOS-users and/or negative people!!! Go back and check my post yourself
if you don't believe me!

I simply made a joke.. Therefore a smiley at the end!
It's really strange that you people expect OS4 users to have thicker skin when you
joke and then react to the smallest things yourself.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

@Arnie,

Quote:

If Troika are doing as they say then this is great news but there seems to be many that think this is just another piece of vaporware.

For a piece of so called vapourware the Troika board has been in development for a long time. If it were vapourware then it would have disapeared along time ago.

@Jeffshepard

...like the AmiJoe. Or the A2601. Or the Dragon. Dude, there have been products produced, made, put up on demonstration at shows that have promptly disappeared. Things that were way, way more substantial than "Amy05".

Anyone remember the "Design a case, win an Amy05" "contest"? They couldn't even get photos of the submissions up on their web-page. Let's forget for a second that there are automated tools provided by most hosting companies that will build photo galleries for you and concentrate on the fact that doing it "by hand" would've taken a whopping five to ten minutes in FrontPage, NVU or any other decent HTML editing software out there.

*sniif sniff*...

What's that I smell? Well let's just say don't wear your expensive shoes 'round Troika posts.

_________________
The problem with AmigaOS on PPC isn't that PPC is big-endian. The problem with AmigaOS on PPC is that PPC is dead-endian.

@ Trokia

Hi, please ignore all negative posts. It's no wonder companies don't post information about product Development any more. I just hope all goes well and your product is sooooon. I'm dying here.

I for one was in need for an expandable system. Your new mainboard looks promising.
I'm not sure how much you can disclose with a NDA slapped on you but there are just a few questions I would love to know and I don't care who the company is or what's re-named, I just want a product, so if you can, please answer my questions?

1.) Is graphics still PCI 33 or given more bandwith
2.) Is the new board expandable, takes more than 2 cards.
3.) Can I use PCI or do I need PCI X cards (Not so important to answer this one if giving too mucha away)
4.) Is it CPU upgradable or soldered to mainboard.

If you have a better graphics bus and expandable mainboard, sign me up and tell me where I can pre-order ;)

Oh, and BIG thank you for notification of progress for all us others who are interested.

Last edited by SHADES on 28-May-2006 at 11:28 PM.

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It's not the question that's the problem, it's the problem that's the question.

Quote:

Now that's rich coming from you. If you'd posted just as much criticism about Genesi and their "mishaps" instead of defending them at every opportunity get, then maybe there would have been some kind of credibility to what you just wrote.

I have to ask Gary_C: What hardware does Genesi have that runs AOS4 after the pages and pages and pages of fluff that has come from BBRV? Oh thats right....NONE!
So by using your logics, BBRV has many multiples of pages of fluff and no hardware, troikia and ack have a few pages of fluff and no hardware......So therefore as BBRV has far more fluff and no hardware he is even LESS credible than the other two!


Man, you people are nuts, really. Do you think IBM goes around providing home users with updates, photos, revealing sensitive information on thier products before release just because Joe Public thinks they should and if they don't the product is vapour?What about SONY or AMD?

Good Grief, get a grip people

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@Samface

Quote:

Quote: It doesn't matter what "color" the critics are, all it takes to be one is for the person to have his/her eyes open. Now that's rich coming from you. If you'd posted just as much criticism about Genesi and their "mishaps" instead of defending them at every opportunity get, then maybe there would have been some kind of credibility to what you just wrote.

The logic of an argument depends on its own validity, not on the credibility or history of the person who made it. As I've said before, people can decide for themselves whether my criticisms hold water or not. If people want to toss out anything I say about Troika because I haven't made the same arguements about Genesi, that's their prerogative, even if it's illogical.

@Ion Mane
Quote:

I have to ask Gary_C: What hardware does Genesi have that runs AOS4 after the pages and pages and pages of fluff that has come from BBRV? Oh thats right....NONE! So by using your logics, BBRV has many multiples of pages of fluff and no hardware, troikia and ack have a few pages of fluff and no hardware......So therefore as BBRV has far more fluff and no hardware he is even LESS credible than the other two!

Actually, no offense but your comparison makes no sense to me. Please think about this more carefully. Yes, Genesi/BBRV have written "pages and pages" about AOS4 but they weren't claiming all that time that they were about to bring out a product to run it, as Troika is. Do you see the difference? Genesi has the product already; you can buy it now. I'm not sure what Genesi can do directly about AOS4. I think BBRV have been trying to build community interest in the idea, and get people here into power.org to work together for the plaform, and I understand they've tried to make contact with Amiga, Inc. but beyond that they are probably powerless if Amiga, Inc. isn't willing. Why should Genesi bother, anyway? I really don't know, myself.

Quote:

Man, you people are nuts, really. Do you think IBM goes around providing home users with updates, photos, revealing sensitive information on thier products before release just because Joe Public thinks they should and if they don't the product is vapour?What about SONY or AMD?

Those companies have proven they can produce and market products. Those companies' products in fact are available with the advertised operating system. Those companies have shown that they are more than mysterious web forum postings by an anonymous individual. Those companies haven't published a series of documents that show them to be more inept than capable. Those companies are not operating in a tiny market with a strong history of hoaxes and scams. Do I need to go on?

-- gary_c
(edited to respond to Ion Mane's second paragraph)

Last edited by gary_c on 29-May-2006 at 03:06 AM.

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@IonMane

Maybe you should look at who the people are that demand "sensitive information"
all the time.. You might find out that it's always the same bunch..

I say let Troika do it until done.. If nothing comes of it then so be it.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

Samwel, why should the matter of Troika having an AmigaOS4 license or not be considered "sensitive information"? Why should the identities of the individuals involved in Troika be considered "sensitive information"? I think these are reasonable things to know, given the history of hoaxes in the Amiga hardware market. (OK, I agree the information would be sensitive if it turned out they don't have a license or prospects for one after all, but this would be all the more reason for people to press them to come clean.) And, yes, it probably is the same bunch that keeps bringing these questions up, but so what? As I said to Samface, the questions are either legitimate or they aren't.

-- gary_c

Last edited by gary_c on 29-May-2006 at 02:56 AM.

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@gary_c

Btw I took the "sensitive information" bit from IonMane's post.

Yes, I agree! Those two questions shouldn't be a secret. But why are You, that
clearly isn't interrested in OS4, persuing this vandetta with demanding things
from Troika? We should just accept that if Troika doesn't want to tell us anything
before release it's up to them. We have no right whatsoever to demand anything
from them. Just let it go! Troika will deliver or not in due time, licenced or not.

Lets just sit back and "enjoy" the ride.

Last edited by Samwel on 29-May-2006 at 03:53 AM.
Last edited by Samwel on 29-May-2006 at 03:37 AM.
Last edited by Samwel on 29-May-2006 at 03:36 AM.

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/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

Quote:

But why are You, that clearly isn't interrested in OS4, persuing this vandetta with demanding things from Troika?

Mainly I'm just reacting to behavior that seems shady to me. True, it doesn't affect me directly, one way or the other. And I agree that it's easy enough to just sit back and see if they deliver or not. Still, it's like watching an amateur magician when you think you see some parts of his tricks falling to the floor behind him.

-- gary_c

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@samface

Quote:

Now that's rich coming from you. If you'd posted just as much criticism about Genesi and their "mishaps" instead of defending them at every opportunity get, then maybe there would have been some kind of credibility to what you just wrote.

What the hell has Genesi to do with a Troika "progress" report?
If there was a thread about the political situation in Angola, I am sure you would have no problems in bringing evil bbrv/Genesi into the discussion.

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