@mahen

That is what I think is so bleeding depressing too.

However Bill Buck cocked his own marketplace up by announcing all the boards were sold out.

Not quite sure what effect he was trying to get, but I suspect that dried the reseller sales up.

I was replying to a direct comparsion made by Orgin between the A1 and Pegasos situation.

From that standpoint I see no cause for pessimism and I do not consider this uncalled for.

Besides, I should point out that we do not operate in a void.

All I was saying is that I am optimistic given the state of the OS and the fact that our main competitor can't seem to sell as many machines + OS bundles as we can.

I was not kicking up dust in the vein of "our G3 is faster than your G4", "the Articia S has major problems we won't tell you what they are nor will we tell you how to reproduce them" etc.

_________________

@Mahen

Quote:

Anyway, from the beginning, this situation is pathetic, ridiculous. 2 similar OS'es for a tiny community. What a waste !! The OS4 and MOS team could have worked together, if AInc had not been there.

Your posts tend to be overall sensible, and so is this one.
This last quote is open to interpretation though. Apart from
the obvious fact that any breakdown of negotiations
between AInc and the MOS-representatives seems illogical
to blame solely on one of the parties, I hope you realize
that there would BE no AOS4 team without AmigaInc. Do
you think Hyperion would have bought the trademark -
to become the next Amiga company? Not really their business
model, I'd say. Genesi (or rather what was to become
Genesi) surely didn't. Of course, we don't know what could
have been, and will never know.

You might be referring to the folding of the present AInc of
course - in which case Hyperion would keep developing the
OS on their own (just like now, I suppose). I don't know if
their license in that case allows them to "merge" with MOS
- and what makes you think Hyperion would just magically
be open to that thought at all (since you put all the blame of
this not happening on AmigaInc I mean)?
At any rate, assuming prestige and pride can be put aside
(which I very much doubt), to think that the idea of one of
the OS:es merging painlessly into the other
is probably too naïve to start with. You would probably end
up keeping one and just plunder the other for features and
tidbits. I can not even begin to imagine the wars that
would create...
.
SlimJim

@Miffy
Quote:

So I still think you are being unfair on Ben here.

Ok. fair enough. Differing opinions are what makes the world go 'round.
.
SlimJim

>Hyperion was definitely not honest about that (I have this >video on my HD where Ben H says 4/5 times that OS4 would >be released in feb 2002 - the Virtual Dimensions one, the >ones who recently made an Aachen video report)

I was making that prediction based on the situation at that time.

It is also an infuriating habit of Amiga users to continually hassle me for release dates and subsequently be either pissed off when we feel to meet them or get depressed when it's too far in the future.

The fact of the matter is that I would prefer to keep my mouth shut about release dates.

We are doing all we can given a budget which is probably smaller than Petro's annual Amiga branded pen production cost.

All I can say is that OS 4 will be completed because there is sufficient demand from the embedded systems market to justify the expenditure in time and resources.

Since you are a self-confessed Mos user, please consider that MorphOS users have been running around about their spectacular JIT 68K emulator for over 18 months which just now seems to have been properly integrated in MorphOS 1.4.

So if there is any dishonesty involved, it certainly cuts both ways.

_________________

Slimjim : well, that's not really what I was implying. Not merging OS4 and MOS, but the teams. That is to say that ExecSG wouldn't have be written but the core of MOS used instead. MOS worked in 2001 on the pegasos with the OS 3.1. So it would have been a great gain of time. There would then have been more developers to rewrite / improve the AmigaOS API. Anyway, that was utopic :) Here you can see that many great things have been duplicated. (new intuition in MOS and new intuition in OS4, etc) If all developers had taken part in the same project, we would have now something more mature I think ?

As for AmigaInc, well, it's complicated. They never did anything directly for the OS4 development. But they gave the directions b/c they owned the IP etc. And MOS could never have become OS4 because they would have wanted to control it and it would have obviously been unacceptable. So that was a complicated situation.


Anyway, now, there are two OS'es : OS4 and MOS, and this won't change ever :)

HyperionMP :

please be serious. Did you *really* think you could have OS4.0 ready for feb 2002 ? That was a completely crazy date. It was beyond common sense.

> Since you are a self-confessed Mos user, please
> consider that MorphOS users have been running
> around about their spectacular JIT 68K
> emulator for over 18 months which just now
> seems to have been properly integrated in > MorphOS 1.4.

Why the term confessed ? Is it a bad thing to be a MOS user ? Does it mean I'm in the evil camp ?

I never said the other side was perfect either. I have the JIT emulator pre-version since Q3 of last year. I guess they wanted it to be perfect before giving it to everyone.

I 100% agree that there were delays both sides. There are many things that we've been waiting for a long time and that will only be in MOS 1.4.

Anyway, this discussion is totally useless and off topic.

That was definitely not my point to turn this thread into a flamewar. I apologize.

I only post here to express my disappointment for the situation. (few pegasos sold, no OS4 for A1 before several months, a community tearing itself apart etc...) So I stop now :)

@HyperionMP

From my first post on the subject:
Quote:

[...] (and the fact that Mr. Buck is slipping quite often in this regard is no excuse - are we children here; like "he did it first!"?).

I then read this:
Quote:

[...] I was not kicking up dust in the vein of "our G3 is faster than your G4", "the Articia S has major problems we won't tell you what they are nor will we tell you how to reproduce them" etc.

Hmm ...


And this comparison, drawing Bill Buck and his antics (and
using his antics too no less) into the argument, is
constructive, how?


See my point? I'm really not trying to flame you here, only
offer some advice. There is no need to draw more blood in
this community, to score any more cheap points. I sincerely
belive the best marketing move now is to behave as
professional and calmly as can possibly be.
I sure know that's what wins my sympathies, at least. That
is probably the sole reason I still have some amount of
confidence in fleecy; the man has never - that I've seen
anyway - behaved badly, or even lost his temper, in
forums (which is after all the only venue in which I come
"into contact" with him).

Please just think about it at least. As mentioned, I've said
similar things to Bill Buck several times, and he didn't take
offence (or at least he hid it very well).
.
SlimJim

- edited to fix spelling -

@HyperionMP

At any rate, I'll probably be shaking your hand come Saturday,
since I'll be attending the Sweden - Gothenburg AOS4 Tour !
.
SlimJim

@SlimJim :

You're definitely the most reasonable one here :) I apologize for bringing some "attacks" to Hyperion. It's just to give a balance (usually over-OS4optimisitc and over-antiMOS here but this is useless.

I'll try to do something useful instead !

Let's hope the community remains unite & developers systematically port things to both MOS & OS4 :)

What actually annoys me is ppl saying there are either pro OS4 or pro MOS with no good reason, just because they had to take a side. We should just consider the products and not turn this into a war etc etc :)

Quote:

'm a MOS user but I hope OS4 will be released, especially because many would leave the amiga scene if there was only MOS left. I'm sure as soon as OS4 is ready for A1, there will be 3 times as many A1 users than Peg users (considering there are currently 2 peg MOS users for 1 A1 Linux user, which is really a shame !)

Hmmm! Where did you see the sales stats for Aone. stating things as facts with out showing facts is becoming annoying.

_________________
PowerTower A1200, 060/80Mhz, Heatsink & Fan, 66MBRam, PowerFlyerGold, 50xCDRomdrive, 250Zip, 2.1

Alkemyst: I heard that (of course it's just a rumour) but I thought that was very good considering the amigaOne currently runs only linux. So that was definitely a positive surprise for the AmigaOne. But maybe it's even more.

I even think it's crazy :)

OK that was my last post here, I'm ruining my life on forums !!

>Hyperion was definitely not honest about that (I have this >video on my HD where Ben H says 4/5 times that OS4 would >be released in feb 2002 - the Virtual Dimensions one, the >ones who recently made an Aachen video report)

I was making that prediction based on the situation at that time.

It is also an infuriating habit of Amiga users to continually hassle me for release dates and subsequently be either pissed off when we feel to meet them or get depressed when it's too far in the future.

The fact of the matter is that I would prefer to keep my mouth shut about release dates.

We are doing all we can given a budget which is probably smaller than Petro's annual Amiga branded pen production cost.

All I can say is that OS 4 will be completed because there is sufficient demand from the embedded systems market to justify the expenditure in time and resources.

Since you are a self-confessed Mos user, please consider that MorphOS users have been running around about their spectacular JIT 68K emulator for over 18 months which just now seems to have been properly integrated in MorphOS 1.4.

So if there is any dishonesty involved, it certainly cuts both ways.

_________________

@SlimJim

Maybe I misunderstand what "anthics" are but I am assuming you mean "antics".

Quote:

And this comparison, drawing Bill Buck and his anthics (and using his anthics too no less) into the argument, is constructive, how?

So lets see .... are you referring to yourself as not being constructive because you are the only one out of you, Bjorn and Ben Hermans who brought Bill Buck into this?!?

Im lost!

@Mahen

Why thanks for the compliment - right back at ya (are we all a
happy dandy community or what! )

I have no problem with people being overly AOS4-optimistic or
overly MOS-optimistic. That's part of the charm of being
among enthusiasts. It's not until people start getting 'anti-', it
gets nasty and childish.
.
SlimJim

SlimJim: exactly :) The problem is that we can't really discuss the differences between the products now b/c :

- they are not in a state which allows a comparison
- the fact that there are camps turns criticisms about a product into the "feeling of a personal agression" (if you understand what I mean)
- and also, that the success (or non-success) of one product would have a big impact on the success on the other

That's what makes the situation complicated :) That's why, personnally, I stopped reading ann :) Really, this is bad for my health :)

@Miffy

Don't be silly. I think we all know where those quotes came
from (and, more importantly, who we were supposed to think
of saying them) without the name needing to be said out loud.
If you feel like defending Mr. Hermans, just do so, but I
wonder why you feel you have to, since I'm not flaming him
or anything. The post you responded to should have made
that clear enough.

And, yes "antics" is what it should be. Thanks.
.
SlimJim

Quote:

oster: mahen Date: 23-Jun-2003 16:52:18 Alkemyst: I heard that (of course it's just a rumour) but I thought that was very good considering the amigaOne currently runs only linux. So that was definitely a positive surprise for the AmigaOne. But maybe it's even more. I even think it's crazy :) OK that was my last post here, I'm ruining my life on forums !!

You heard! next time say so & not post like it is fact.

But then ppl would want to know from who you heard it from as well, so who did you hear it from?

You know full well what reactions may come about by stating hearsay,rumors as facts with out backing it up.

You say you dont want flames so dont bring the matches.

_________________
PowerTower A1200, 060/80Mhz, Heatsink & Fan, 66MBRam, PowerFlyerGold, 50xCDRomdrive, 250Zip, 2.1

@SlimJim

Now now, I am *not* being silly. There is no need to resort to that.

Can you explain where the hell did those quotes come from if not your pen? I have no idea how you leap from what Ben said to this! You introduced a personal comparison with Bill Buck.

I panned up the screen and could see nowhere where Ben talked about Bill Buck and his antics - I could see YOU talking about Bill Buck and his antics and comparing him with Bens contribution to this topic but nothing beyond that.

What *I* saw was Orgin pointing out something sensible about the danger of not bringing a product to market and highlighting the lower price point of the Pegasos and Ben replying that this lower price point was no guarantee of sales.

I realise that you aren't flaming Ben but you are criticising him with a disjoint argument.

Can you PLEASE clarify for the thick ones like me at the back.

Alkemyst :

please don't be agressive, I really just gave an estimation (that's all we can have anyway, OK I should have specified it was a personal estimation) and I really thought that was a positive one.