Quote:

The fact of the matter is that only 600 units of the Pegasos I were ever produced, many of which were given away for free and even now there is a still a "blow-out" sale going on at rock-bottom prices.

Doh, Ben... The real fact is that those 600 or so ppl at least have an OS to run for six months now. Now compare this to the ppl who ordered their AOne ...hmmm... let's say March 2002... have not even seen OS4 running on AOne (because it doesn't). And the fact that they will have to wait until 2004 to do so...probably.

I think you should at least think twice before bringing Mos/Pegasos into this discussion.

@Miffy

I Agree Ben had every right to Reply & mention the competing products as to a comment that mentioned the competing products in the first place..

The only angle i can see from what SlimJim said is i think that he would rather the heads of each side not even reply to comments about the competition, thus not having to mention the competition them selfs when reply.

All well and good if that what had happened from the start.

Besides i have not seen ben ever mention pegasos MOS or BillBuck unless he was replying to someone. unlike BillBuck who will (put down/mention)Amiga.inc, Aone/Aos4, MAI, Eyetech, Hyperion, when making his sales pitch.

_________________
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@Miffy

Hmm, Ok, first of all "silly" is nothing I personally "resort" to
("resort" as in "resorting to name-calling"). I place little weight
in being called silly. If you took offence, I apologize since I
take pride in not drooping to name-calling.

Now, I wasn't planning to ponder this further (it tends to
get obnoxius and boring to turn the same words over and
over), but since you ask:

In the quotes I refer to, Mr. Hermans doesn't use the name
"Bill Buck" explicitly, but he uses the quotes of that same
person (don't tell me you (or anyone in this community)
don't know who said "our G3 is faster than your G4"
(paraphrased of course)) - and he use them as a measuring
rod. A measuring rod to indicate the [comparatively low]
"level of mudslinging" in his post. It is obvious to me at
least (I would have said "obvious to all", but this is
apparently not the case) that the quotes are chosen so as
to indicate the originator of the quotes (which just happen
to be Mr. Buck) to be a bigger mudslinger than Mr.
Hermans. Thus, in order to defend his own "posting antics",
he has - quite uncalled for - turned the reader's attention to
the, in his view, poor "posting antics" of his competitor.
And by doing so it can be argued he assumes the very
same antics in a way.

Actually the post right after is a much better example (one
which I hadn't seen when I wrote the original post):

Quote:

Since you are a self-confessed Mos user, please consider that MorphOS users have been running around about their spectacular JIT 68K emulator for over 18 months which just now seems to have been properly integrated in MorphOS 1.4. So if there is any dishonesty involved, it certainly cuts both ways.

Here, I see no reason for the [un]availability of a MOS-JIT
to be drawn into the discussion about a AOS-JIT as some
sort of self-satisfying defense. Nor do I see why the
answer to mahens statement about being dishonest with
release schedules would need to include MOS at all. But, as
always, that's just me, and I think I have made my point
clear without mulling this further.
.
SlimJim

Quote:

oster: mahen Date: 23-Jun-2003 17:14:59 Alkemyst : please don't be agressive, I really just gave an estimation (that's all we can have anyway, OK I should have specified it was a personal estimation) and I really thought that was a positive one.

What you REALLY did is state rumors,hearsay as fact & now you say estimation with out stating what your estimation is based on.

You keep right on with moving them goal posts.

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@alkemyst

Quote:

The only angle i can see from what SlimJim said is i think that he would rather the heads of each side not even reply to comments about the competition, thus not having to mention the competition them selfs when reply.

Right. But frankly I wouldn't be worried about either, so long as they are prepared to provide collateral to back up their points and be willing to submit to debate without sending "I'm so wounded" or "take responsibility!" messages to private mailboxes as a substitute for engaging in debate.

@ Orgin

My overall impression of AmigaOS4 was that when it is finished, it will be a very featureful and high quality product. In my view, I greatly prefer this release to be done properly instead of being done the fast way.

All the features already found in AmigaOS3.9, extended with tons of wonderful new features and enhancements as stated within the feature list and demonstrated at Tour events will IMO easily result into AmigaOS4 becoming the most powerful and feature-complete solution available to the Amiga community.

I believe the time the Amiga community had and will have to wait will be well worth its while! In most areas the AmigaOS4 team is IMO miles ahead of the competition!

Only regarding the general appearance, the icon system is still behind somewhat, but I think the default glow icons are not bad.

@SlimJim

Of course you have made your point, but you need to do as I don't and quote clearer and explain carefully what is relevant to the post at hand and what is general observation.

Finally, you could have PM'd Ben instead of guiding the discussion further into a point on a public forum where you were comparing apples with apples ( Ben and Bill ) such that Ben makes a comparison with himself and Bill and then you complain ( what you quoted ).

Or maybe you PMd about this before and it fell on deaf ears.

My annoyance at being called silly was not the use of the word itself but the implication that I was being less than frank or less than serious. My command of the English language is pretty good but I still could not follow the thinking behind your post.

Regards

DaveP.

PS: Seeings you take pride in your use of English I have to question if you really did mean "drooping" rather than "stooping" or "resorting to". Idiom is hard to learn they say! Drooping is what something that is bendable does - like a willow tree branch, a rubber ruler or a erm ahem, stooping is what something with joints does ( like humans ).

@Miffy

As long as the point is clearer now, I'm satisfied.

As for sending a PM: Perhaps so, if nothing else it might
have avoided the thread from being dragged off topic. That
PM-window is so bloody small though.

"Droop": as in sagging down. I suppose "stoop" is more
common (and maybe more correct in this context).
.
SlimJim

@SlimJim

It would cause puzzled looks in Angleterre but they would know what you meant. Also droop implies being weighed down under something be it gravity, health problems, excess water ( in the case of weeping willows ) or tiredness. Some external effect is required.

Best to stick to:
- I will not resort to that level.
- I will not stoop to that level.
- I will not lower myself to that level
- I will not go down to that level.

Unless you want to be funky and extend the language further which is more than welcome. Ill droop to that

g'night

Dave.

Quote:

It would cause puzzled looks in Angleterre but they would know what you meant. Also stoop implies being weighed down under something be it gravity, health problems, excess water ( in the case of weeping willows ) or tiredness. Some external effect is required.

Hmm... Somehow I think you mixed up the two words.
Either that or you lost me...

-edit - Ah, you made a small but critical edit.
.
SlimJim

@ mahen

Quote:

Hyperion was definitely not honest about that

Please understand that is solely your opinion and point of view and not at all a fact.

Hyperion made estimates based on information available to them at that point of time. Meanwhile the AmigaOS4 project has grown and evolved into something much more feature rich and interesting.

Making estimates is a very dangerous gambling game for the software industry, especially when dealing with software technologies as complex, advanced and featureful as a modern operating system. Even software companies with millions of dollars to spare, continuously miss originally intended release dates.

I hope my report clarified the current state of development enough for most people, so that everyone can decide what they want to do for themselves. Personally I am very impressed by what I have seen so far and I am more than willing to wait for as much as it takes for the project to be completed in a non-rushed manner.

twas a typo, since corrected.

Damn you for getting there too quick!

@Miffy

What can I say - I'm drooping under the responsibilities of being a fast typist
.
SlimJim

@MikeB

Thanks for the review BTW, did you get any pictures at all?

Cheers,

Bean.

_________________
OS4.1 + SAM Flex
RIP my A1XE.. that used to have an appetite for batteries!

@ Bean

Quote:

Thanks for the review BTW, did you get any pictures at all?

I only took a handful of 'AmigaOS4 on Tour' related pictures and actually a good friend asked me to borrow her my camera for another trip! I will probably enhance my article with a few photographs after a week or so when (if?) she is back with my camera.

However I noticed various people taking photographs and even recording the demonstration.

Quote:

Hey Ben Yoris, seems your guess was correct

He wasn't.

- He said "not this year", not "at the end of this year"
- He broke an NDA.

>Doh, Ben... The real fact is that those 600 or so ppl at least >have an OS to run for six months now. Now compare this to >the ppl who ordered their AOne ...hmmm... let's say March >2002... have not even seen OS4 running on AOne (because it >doesn't). And the fact that they will have to wait until 2004 to >do so...probably

I'm sorry but we would never consider releasing a half-finished product.

You have expressed frustration in the past about all the failed attempts by companies like Escom and Gateway but it is entirely unfair to put this on our doorstep.

It's not because people have had to wait for over 8 years that these 8 years can be attributed to us.

_________________

Quote:

I'm sorry but we would never consider releasing a half-finished product. You have expressed frustration in the past about all the failed attempts by companies like Escom and Gateway but it is entirely unfair to put this on our doorstep. It's not because people have had to wait for over 8 years that these 8 years can be attributed to us.

Didn't see anything about Escom or Gateway in my post. I was talking about OS4 only (you know: the hardest part is over, the emulation is integrated, juggling with % being done, just a recompile for which you still need to write the tools,...).

I'm glad i don't believe in this talk anymore. But think about mentioning MOS to cover up OS4. They seem to be far ahead so it kind of makes you look ridiculous (see also ANN)...

Yes I wrote that 'as my personal opinion' on a french forum. Chatting with friends.

Is it a crime ? It looks as if it was for you.
And sorry but I didn't sign any NDA concerning AOS4. And even ?

But I was fired and throwned away like useless crap.
Ho for sure I wasn't a coder and not very useful to Hyperion.

I just helped finding 10.000 Euros when finances were low in 2000. I gave a hand on beta testing Shogo, H2 and a bit of Freespace. For free of course, and I'm happy that it was for free.
I introduced to you maybe one of your best help/beta tester : Sg2. Happily did in fact.

And I commited the ultimate crime against Hyperion : expressing my personal opinion about the release date of OS 4, which in the end, and very unintentionnally on my part, will be the truth.

Tell me, what do you have really against me to have thrown me away like this ?
What did I do ?

Bye,
Ben Yoris

@Onevision:

The only crime you seem to have committed is being spot on with the release date. As Hyperion were trying to make us believe that it was around corner, you just said the thruth.

Allthough i don't really know the situation, i think it is sad to be treated that way by people for which you apparantly did a lot of good work.