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hardware OS4   hardware OS4 : IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
   posted by tomazkid on 15-Apr-2007 17:38:20 (19060 reads)
Hans-Joerg Frieden (Rogue) made a guest appearance at Safir's IRC-channel #safir, and gave answers to questions about AmigaOS 4.

A big thank you goes to Alkaron and Nickman for the session logs and editing.




Q = Question A = Answer S = Statement from Rogue

[20:56] Rogue: Hello everybody

Q: When do we get OS4 for classic Amigans?

A: Classic version will be done as soon as we have the AmigaOne version out of the door, which should be "RSN"
Right now, we're working on the final ISO, the one that is supposed to be packaged up in a nice big box
(which, incidentially, is already designed ) in the form of a real, physical CD (with manual IIRC)
The classic version still has a few edges that need to be ironed out... but shouldn't be that much longer anymore

Q: Will the Mediator be supported native in OS4 at any time or through Petunia only?

A: I think that we will leave it at the emulated Mediator support.. it's difficult to get DMA-drivers running on the
classic Amiga PCI solutions anyway, so adaptions would be required. And I am not exactly in favor of using video
memory for DMA buffers.

Q: Any price range for the Classic version ?

A: No idea about the pricing, I guess it will be somewhat in the same range as the A1 version.
Price range for the A1 version is ¤100 I think.

Q: What happened to warp3d and will warpup emulation be back or cancelled?

A: Not much. We're probably going to leave it as it is now, concentrate on other important issues first. When the final version
is out on CD, we will review what we will do for the future. For the future we will concentrate on OpenGL in any case.
No warpup emulation. It's not worth the effort IMO

S: Developers might be interested in this: We're also working on a new SDK right now. The final on the CD will include
support for loading UNIX-liked shared objects, and the SDK will be able to produce them (like a libpython.so)
(I finished libpython.so today BTW ) Python is a scripting language that can be incorporated into your own program.
For example, Blender uses it for scripting. The shared objects will be 100% like under Linux, meaning that most of the
time you can create them without editing a makefile.

Q: Will current OS4 prerelase users have to buy the final package ? (if so full or at a redused cost ?)

A: I think that everybody can download the CD, but only non-Earlybird users get it for free.. I am not sure about this though,
not the business type Earlybird systems came with a cheaper version of OS 4, so they should be able to get the box
for an aditional fee.

Q: Will AmigaDOS filesystem go 64bit and its dos-libraries? Will there be a new filesystem?

A: I don't think that FFS2 will be 64 bit... No idea about SFS. Reiser and other UNIX FS are quite different and a bit of work to port...
possible though. DOS is 64 bits. Future versions of OS4 will probably have a modified FS API...

Q: Will you add software emulation for classic chipsets like the ECS or AGA?

A: No, none of that is planned. There is limited emulation for some features, and the final update added support for planar graphics
modes (so you can run DPaint) but beyond that, nothing is planned.

Q: Are 680x0 programs 100% compatible with OS4?

A: Well, everything is emulated, you can basically just run a 68k program like you run a native program. Some have trouble with JIT,
you can blacklist those to prevent them from going through the JIT. Users don't notice anything from the 68k emulation. I played
WBsteroids on the mystery device

Q: What graphics architectures will OS4 support in the future!?

A: Well, we're thinking about a Porter/Duff based graphics system, with OpenGL acceleration... something like the latest X server,
or MacOS X (Porter/Duff is an image composition system that can be accelerated via OpenGL)

Q: Would Hyperion like to visit AmiGBG again if a new fair will be held later this year?

A: You gotta ask Hyperion that question

Q: One intresting feature from windows/gnome and so on is the network neigborhood. Are you thinking of implementing things
like samba that in the WB?

A: No plans yet for any extension to workbench. There are more urgent fundamental features that need an overhaul
(graphics being one of them)

Q: There are much talks about PS3 and OS4. Your thought on that issue?

A: Would make a nice couple. I prefer Kosh type answer *coughs* Especially when I cannot really answer the question...

Q: Will there be a update-service over internet?

A: I suppose there will be things like the boing bags...

Q: Are you planning for new features like bluetooth?

A: No, not right now.

Q: What are your main focus right now?

A: Until today I was working on the shared object support and the Python port. Starting around Monday/Tuesday, I will be working on the
final ISO that is going to become the AmigaOS 4.0 CD

Q: How many people are fully involved in development?

A: Well, the team has about 40 or so developers, but of course, things have slowed down considerably after the Christmas release...

Q: Rogue, so in a grand total, what's your view on the future? Will we pull through? IS there a future for AmigaOS or should we all go home ?

A: It's difficult to say. It depends on a few factors that are out of our reach. However I think that yes, there is a future for AmigaOS...
The time to go home has not come yet, and if I have something to say, it will not come at all. After all, we're still after
World Domination (tm) Mwhahaha *coughs* Nevermind

Q: Any new planned Hyperion game releases for OS4 during 2007?

A: I think Gorky 17 is still planned, no idea about other projects ATM...

Q: Any recomended hw specs for the classic version ? And how much memory is needed?

A: Any PowerPC will do and 128 mb is good enough. 64 MB will work too, but the more the merrier.

Q: Will it be possible to buy OS4 online?

A: No idea really... depends on the stores selling it.

Q: Does hyperion have any interest in porting java or openoffice?

A: Interest: Yes. Resources: nope

Q: How is Hyperion funded?!

A: Good question... The funding is done by the managing partners. Sometimes we do additional third party work.

[22:14] Rogue: Alright I need to go now...
[22:14] Rogue: Thanks for having me


    

STORYID: 3706
Related Links
· More about hardware OS4
· News by tomazkid


Most read story about hardware OS4
20 Answers with Alan Redhouse of Eyetech

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PosterThread
redfox 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 3:54:53
#61 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 2078
From: Canada

@number6

Quote:

@all

Earlybird described in Alan's words (for those who feel the need to debate this):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5075&forum=33

#6


I found this thread quite enlightening. It seems to me that communications has been an issue for a very long time. Although this is ancient history now, I remember being worried that I had somehow stumbled into a void when I received a plain white CD-R with my MicroA1 motherboard. It contained OS4 pre-release update #1 and installed just fine. But there was no indication whatever if the official CD was temporarily out of stock. After many enquiries, I was quite relieved when I finally received the official pre-release CD about 3 1/2 months later.

---
redfox

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GregS 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 4:11:55
#62 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Apr-2003
Posts: 1797
From: Perth Australia

@Stew

Thanks for the moobunny reference.

I should make it plain that moobunny provides a good service to the community, my problems with it lie elsewhere.

For the meanwhile I'll stick to my estimate that 80% of the "legal problems issue" is pure FUD.

Who knows maybe that is a conservative figure?

Anyhow if there is SAM OS4 release soon, a lot of this stuff can be ignored.


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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

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sundown 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 4:12:50
#63 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@redfox

I take it you bought from Livewire, same as me. I heard that the official CDs were held up in Vancover customs at the time, took a while to release them. Adam & Justin had to burn copies to ship with the micros.


Edit: Name correction

Last edited by sundown on 16-Apr-2007 at 07:22 PM.


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redfox 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 4:45:11
#64 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 7-Mar-2003
Posts: 2078
From: Canada

@sundown

Yes, Livewire. Actually, that explanation makes a lot of sense.

BTW, I received good support from Justin and Adam, received a usable system (motherboard and OS), and everything worked out in the end. My only complaint was a lack of information at a time when I needed it (for a month or two, I thought I was alone, until I noticed a thread where you and some others were in the same boat).

Anyways, that was a long time ago and I have been running OS4 for over two years.

Thanks,
redfox

Last edited by redfox on 16-Apr-2007 at 05:59 AM.
Last edited by redfox on 16-Apr-2007 at 05:55 AM.
Last edited by redfox on 16-Apr-2007 at 05:38 AM.

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CodeSmith 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 6:29:34
#65 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@stew

This is moobunny we're talking about, so I wouldn't get too excited just yet. Given people's willingness over there to make up stuff just to get a good flamewar going (up to and including posting slander under someone else's name), I think we can file that under "100% unverifiable noise"

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sundown 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 6:45:55
#66 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5120
From: Right here...

@redfox

Yah, we had a lot to learn in those days & still do.

#6 & me still go at it in IRC, I know he's been trying to lure you into joining.


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mailman 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 7:11:42
#67 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2003
Posts: 260
From: Poland

@AmiKit

Quote:
there's at least one more possible explanation why the CD is being prepared... hmmm... SAM? But who knows...


This could suggest that OS4 is not going to be shipped with SAM (and this is rather not true).

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mailman 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 7:14:56
#68 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2003
Posts: 260
From: Poland

@sundown

Quote:
There are 2nd hand owners that don't have the serial number that came with the A1 so they can't update.


Is it possible? If so than many second hand owners obtained the system updates in illegal way. It is not the case for me.

Last edited by mailman on 16-Apr-2007 at 07:43 AM.

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mailman 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 7:22:58
#69 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2003
Posts: 260
From: Poland

@CodeSmith

Quote:

The optimist view is that Hyperion and ACube have decided to keep using the AmigaOne brand and the Sam with OS4 going to be sold as the "AmigaOne 440" or something like that, so Rogue wasn't referring to the Articia-based boxes some of us have.


This sounds very optimistic. But this could also mean that AmigaOne version (as stated) will not be for sale or (like AmiKit thinks) will not be bundled with SAM.

Last edited by mailman on 16-Apr-2007 at 07:23 AM.

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mailman 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 7:35:43
#70 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2003
Posts: 260
From: Poland

@Rogue

Quote:

About the CD production, we had a couple of last minute features we wanted to include, which is why the Final ISO is not what will be pressed on CD. Besides the fact that the CD release will have a contribs section, it will also feature a few newer components, among other things, the new ELF library that is able to load UNIX-like shared object files


So I was right saying that CD will differ from the downloadable version. And this is not only the case of add-ons but also the system itself.

Anyway, thanks for the reply Rogue.

Last edited by mailman on 16-Apr-2007 at 07:44 AM.

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AmiKit 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 8:18:29
#71 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2004
Posts: 1139
From: Europe

@mailman

Quote:

there's at least one more possible explanation why the CD is being prepared... hmmm... SAM? But who knows...

Quote:

This could suggest that OS4 is not going to be shipped with SAM (and this is rather not true).

Why not?


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mailman 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 8:25:04
#72 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2003
Posts: 260
From: Poland

Because since the very beginning SAM was to be sold with OS4 (AFAIR).

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Insanity 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 8:37:25
#73 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Aug-2005
Posts: 405
From: Sweden

@mailman

Quote:
Because since the very beginning SAM was to be sold with OS4 (AFAIR).


That's not how I remember it.

(IMHO):
Since the very beginning SAM was to be sold. Period. But there were also ideas for it being sold with aos4 from the start, but A^3 appears to in no way be dependent on A.Inc for the sale of their product.


_________________
Yes I own an Amiga. A non-upgraded A500 that is unpacked once every 3 years.

If you are going to quote me, do so fully or not at all.
/Ins

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AmiKit 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 8:38:16
#74 ]
Super Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2004
Posts: 1139
From: Europe

@mailman

sure, but the same boxed CD version might be sold solely or bundled with SAM as well.


_________________
Modern Retro Experience

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mailman 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 8:47:51
#75 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Nov-2003
Posts: 260
From: Poland

@Insanity

If you are correct (and I remember wrong) then it seems in some way reasonable. I guess time will tell what is behind all of this. Though it makes SAM+OS4 quite expensive toy.

Last edited by mailman on 16-Apr-2007 at 09:00 AM.

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Kronos 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 8:59:02
#76 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 2669
From: Unknown

@stew

And what actual differnce would that make ?

-They are (or were) under contract from AInc to create an AmigaOS.
-They did have the sources.
-Their OS is Amiga-compatible (to some extent)

Any hostile-takeover from Hyperion could be shut down by AInc asking a judge for a cease&desist.

While it might be that Hyperion can win this, how long do you think it would take ?

So whatever the solution to the OS4-situation is, this ain't it.


_________________
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- blame Canada

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pods 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 9:10:14
#77 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 7-Apr-2003
Posts: 339
From: Brunswick, Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

Interesting. I thought things had stoped or just about stoped on the OS4 front. Looks like after the final OS4 release, things might continue to slowly plod along. Interesting.

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falemagn 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 9:11:12
#78 ]
Super Member
Joined: 24-Nov-2003
Posts: 1126
From: Italy

Q: Are 680x0 programs 100% compatible with OS4?

A: Well, everything is emulated, you can basically just run a 68k program like you run a native program. Some have trouble with JIT, you can blacklist those to prevent them from going through the JIT.

In hindsight, it'd probably more correct to say that it's rather the JITC that has troubles with some 68k programs.

Last edited by falemagn on 16-Apr-2007 at 09:12 AM.
Last edited by falemagn on 16-Apr-2007 at 09:11 AM.


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system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

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Swoop 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 9:34:54
#79 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
Posts: 2163
From: Long Riston, East Yorkshire

@Skunkfish

Quote:
I would assume that both AmigaOne and Classic versions will be on the same CD as it makes sense from a cost point of view.


It would make more business sense, ie raise more funds, if the two were kept seperate. That way you would have to buy a copy (license) for each PPC capable machine. In the same way that if you have more that one PC, you have paid for more than one copy of windows.


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Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

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Sprocki 
Re: IRC session with Hans-Joerg Frieden
Posted on 16-Apr-2007 9:39:26
#80 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-Jul-2004
Posts: 212
From: Berlin - Germany

@ Rogue

"physical CD (with manual IIRC)"

Are you talking about a printed manual or PDF files? Different languages?

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