@Swoop

Of course you are right but when one condition is taken into consideration: the OS and the hardware are just introduced on the market. We have a situation that hardware has already been introduced, it even has OS. Is it necessary to make OS available for it again?

@Mailman

Quote:

We have a situation that hardware has already been introduced, it even has OS. Is it necessary to make OS available for it again?

Well, it would appear, to be an updated OS, plus contributions, plus a manual, all in a nice box, so I would say yes.

To be honest, I think Hyperion deserve some payback for all their work, and the amount of stick they have taken. If this means I can show some sort of support to Hyperion, I will definatley buy it.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@Swoop

It would mean that some people need to pay again for the system they have already bought.

Poster: Kronos Date: 16-Apr-2007 9:59:02

@stew

And what actual differnce would that make ?

-They are (or were) under contract from AInc to create an AmigaOS.
-They did have the sources.
-Their OS is Amiga-compatible (to some extent)

Any hostile-takeover from Hyperion could be shut down by AInc asking a judge for a cease&desist.

While it might be that Hyperion can win this, how long do you think it would take ?

So whatever the solution to the OS4-situation is, this ain't it.



I assume you are replying to :

Not according to Rogue. He stated that they did not use the original sources at all as they were "useless" to them. That was one of the reasons that things took longer than expected he stated.

Now as to the reason they let the misconception that OS4 is the real successor because it is based on the original source code get argued about for so long......


My point is somewhere someone is disseminating some untruths. Either OS4 is based on the code or not. The story has changed now tht it is convient for OS4 to not be based on the code for ownership puposes. Some say money has changed hands for buyback and some say it hasn't. There are other inconsistancies but you get the idea.... something stinks. If Lawyers are involved there is legal problems. Here is to the hope they are worked out soon.

Quote:

It would make more business sense, ie raise more funds, if the two were kept seperate. That way you would have to buy a copy (license) for each PPC capable machine. In the same way that if you have more that one PC, you have paid for more than one copy of windows.

Windows Vista (Ultimate) comes with IA-32 and X64 editions and one printed product key (not factoring not-so hidden VLK product key on retail DVDs).

_________________
Ryzen 9 7900X, DDR5-6000 64 GB RAM, GeForce RTX 4080 16 GB
Amiga 1200 (Rev 1D1, KS 3.2, PiStorm32lite/RPi 4B 4GB/Emu68)
Amiga 500 (Rev 6A, KS 3.2, PiStorm/RPi 3a/Emu68)

@Hammer

Quote:

Windows Vista (Ultimate) comes with IA-32 and X64 editions and one printed product key (not factoring not-so hidden VLK product key on retail DVDs).

This is probably true, but only one license per machine. Otherwise why do microsoft have the WGA procedures?

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

Quote:

(Mailman) sure, but the same boxed CD version might be sold solely or bundled with SAM as well.

Unlikely:

Quote:

(Rogue) A: Classic version will be done as soon as we have the AmigaOne version out of the door, which should be "RSN"

Since they're preparing the AmigaOne CD right now for real soon now, completing the Classic version comes later and wouldn't be on the same disc. Not ideal from a business perspective perhaps, but there appear to be other business factors driving the decision.

HB

@stew
It does not matter whether OS4 uses any source code from OS3.x or not! The simple fact that some OS4 developers have *seen* the OS3.x code is enough for OS4 to *need* the legal right to use the OS3.x source code.

This is why (since the days of IBM PC clones) you need two teams to clone something (software or hardware). Team 1 reverse-engineers the implementation of that thing, and then defines an abstract specification (containing no implementation details). Team 2 is kept completely separate, not even talking to Team 1 - they only see the specification, and then use that to design their implementation. If you do not do this, then your clone is assumed by the law to have used implementation details of the original, and therefore must pay for that knowledge.

Of course, OS4 is not a pure clone of OS3, but the same legal arguments apply.

Last edited by ChrisH on 16-Apr-2007 at 05:58 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

Quote:

I think that everybody can download the CD, but only non-Earlybird users get it for free.. I am not sure about this though, not the business type Earlybird systems came with a cheaper version of OS 4, so they should be able to get the box for an aditional fee.

How do I know what category I'm in? I never got a prerelease CD or reg code for my A1XE board, but I thought I should have. Does that mean I'm not an earlybird user and thus get it for free? Or that I am an earlybird user left in "no OS4 limbo"? My board was brand new when I bought it, not a second-hand license transfer situation...

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@mailman

Quote:

Is it possible? If so than many second hand owners obtained the system updates in illegal way.

There are 2nd hand owners that didn't realize at the time of sale that they needed the official CD with the os4 serial number and/or the name/nick of the person that registered it for updates. I know Rogue did his best to help some of these ppl, but others have had no luck getting the situation resolved (not Rogue's fault). It wouldn't suprise me if some of these ppl got a friend to mail them an update iso CD. Technically that would be considered illegal even if you owned an A1 & had the legal right (paid) to receive updates.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

@billit,

did you bought it from Eyetech?
If yes maybe you lost the massage from Alan where he said,
that you have the rigtht to have the Final version for free but
you must pay a little amount to have the pre-release.

Regards,
Paolo

@stew
I know many are looking for answers and will grasp onto anything that looks remotely like an answer but the truth is AmigaOS 4.0 is based on AmigaOS 3.x source code and is therefore the real successor. There is no argument there. Period. AmigaOS is very large and made up of many components from many authors like most commercial software is. Perhaps there is very little of the AmigaOS 3.x code based in the AmigaOS 4.0 code base after all this time--that is entirely possible. But that has nothing to do with it not being the real successor legally or otherwise.

Amiga Inc. have their claws deep into AmigaOS 4.0 whether we like it or not. The disagreement between Hyperion and Amiga Inc. must be resolved on their own terms. I know some have been hoping for a loophole of some sort but I really don't believe that is remotely likely. We'll just have to wait it out.

_________________
ExecSG Team Lead

Hurray! I'll gladly pay full price for my new copy! :D - Lars

_________________
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Sam460 : X1000 : X5000

Quote:

did you bought it from Eyetech?

I bought it from my local authorized dealer, who in turn bought it from Eyetech. At the time I thought it was an Earlybird, but I guess I don't know for sure because nothing said so one way or the other. It wasn't early on, so I may have missed the earlybird special, but I guess I don't know how to find out. I was always under the impression that the OS4 price was built into the AmigaOne motherboard price, but now it sounds like that might not have been the case. I never got anything about paying a little for the prerelese, never got anything asking for payment or advertizing this product/fee. I was under the impression that prerelease CDs were for all AmigaOne owners, as I never saw an announcement that "Earlybird promotion is over", and they just stopped selling hardware so no one could buy a non-earlybird board.

I've tried emailing various people at Hyperion, as well as various "contractors for Hyperion" a number for times over the past few years asking about the prerelease CD and reg code, but when I did get a response asking for some info about the board (serial#, etc) no one ever said anything about this "pay a little amount to have the pre-release". And ultimately instead of a yes/no answer to if I qualify or not, it ends up forgotten or something and I'm still clueless.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

@billt

IIRC I got my OS4 beta CD along with the mobo. So if you didn't, you ain't an earlybird guy unless there was a mistake.

@ Billt

If you brought an new A1 you should have a serious talk with your Dealer.

Hyperion sent all of the CDs to the Dealers and it was up to the dealer to send them out to the end users. Some dealers did not want to spend the money or lost track of the customers
Some shady dealers never bothered to send out all of the AOS PreRelease CDs. Then used those to sell with the uA1's and stiffed both you and Hyperion.


@all

Rogue stated that those earlybird users get a discounted price for OS4.
I would like to know what kind of discount they are entitled to?
but I guess we will find out when AOS4 is released.

One big problem, I can think of is how an enduser is supposed to find out what kind of copy of OS4 do they own or was entitled to. All production uA1 users should have come with a full copy of OS4. The SE and XE users are a mixed boat with only the dealers maybe knowing for sure.


Timeline

Dealers brought and sold beta boards mostly SE's. Those were not entitled to anything. But a discounted version of OS4 was available for sale from Eyetech.

Earlybird boards some reworked SE's and mostly XE's were entitled to a prerealese 4.0 CD only. Dealers brought the boards from Eyetech sold them to the endusers. Hyperion later then sent pre-release CDs to Eyetech. Eyetech then sent CDs to those dealers in the quantity specified by Eyetech for the number of Earlybird boards they brought from Eyetech. Dealers were supposed to send them to the appropriate endusers. Problem was at least in the US. Dealers traded boards back and forth. So dealers may not know exactly what boards were beta and what were earlybird. According to Rogue those earlybird users have to pay a discounted price for a copy of the manual and nice final pressed CD.

All later XE boards and production uA1 boards. Dealers brought those boards from Eytech and then purchased Pre- release AOS4 CD's from Hyperion. Those should be The Full OS4
If your board came out of the box with a pre-release CD. You should be entitled to a full AOS4.0 CD Becuase the dealer brought those copies of AOS4.0 from Hyperion.
Again big problem is since only the dealers might really know for sure who should be entitled to the full copy and since Hyperion will probably be sending those Boxes to the dealers for distibution I forsee lots of hard feelings and problems for the dealers.

So unless you brought a copy of OS4 from hyperion directly I don't know how anybody is supposed to know what they are entitled to.

Kgrach

@Rogue

Quote:

I said upfront to this session that I cannot and will not answer questions regarding hardware. I think I have said *multiple* times already that neither me nor Hyperion want to make announcements about hardware, that is up to the actual manufacturer of the hardware. Why this comes as a surprise is beyond me. As I have also pointed out multiple times (and growing extremely tired of it) I am only contracted by Hyperion so I will not make any statements of any supposed legal dealings with another company, real or fancied

First, I'd like to say that my posts was not complaints on your IRC session as such.
I'ts really nice of you to take time out of your busy schedule to do these things for
the community.
As I wrote, I fully understand that you cannot answer those kind of questions.
I just meant is was too bad you couldn't because we didn't really get much new information from it.

I know that you're "only" a contractor to Hyperion. And yes, you have said so
repeatedly. But if you had read my whole post you would have read that I already
wrote that I understand that you cannot answer those kind of questions.

"But I guess Rogue couldn't answer any of those interesting questions. Too bad."

Sorry if you felt I was bashing you. It was not my intent at all.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

@kgrach

Isn't there a earlybird sale end date? I remember seeing many times the earlybird
sales was ending. Maybe some time in the beginning of 2004, before OS4 prerelease
was released.

As I have understood it all µA1-C users are entitled to a copy of the full OS4 box.
No A1-SE boards where sold with OS4 as I recall. Those that bought OS4 afterwards
have rights to a free OEM version of OS4 final. This could be a pressed disc or
a downloadable ISO. If they want the actual box they will probably get a discount
as you wrote.
Same goes for those XE owners that bought OS4 afterwards.

I don't know if any XE boards where sold "with" a full version of OS4, as the micros.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

Quote:

IIRC I got my OS4 beta CD along with the mobo. So if you didn't, you ain't an earlybird guy unless there was a mistake.

I bought mine before there were prerelease CDs, but after Earlybird was announced. I should have got one in the mail, but apparently there was some confusion with a board that didn't apply to any program might or might not have registered my CD and that code is unusable to me for registering (tried), or maybe the mailman screwed me. (I do get mail for other addresses often enough to believe they suck).

Regardless, I've not been told by people of authority that I don't qualify. Nor have I been told that I do. I've sent my serial# and purchase info enough times they should be able to figure something out. I'll buy OS4 for my XE if I have to, I won't like it, but I don't know how or even if I can. Even if I don't qualify, fine, I'd at least like to know that rather than be left wondering.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!

Quote:

Hyperion sent all of the CDs to the Dealers and it was up to the dealer to send them out to the end users. Some dealers did not want to spend the money or lost track of the customers Some shady dealers never bothered to send out all of the AOS PreRelease CDs. Then used those to sell with the uA1's and stiffed both you and Hyperion.

I have talked to my dealer. I trust him. Seems there was some confusion between boards purchased and one that was on loan from Eyetech which may have ended up with my CD. Other customers from the same XE lot at this dealer are believed to have recieved their stuff. Explained that to people claiming authority for OS4 license issues, but have never been told what "should" become of it all. In the absence of an answer, I've taken to assume I'm screwed until proven otherwise. Saying I'm not entitled to OS4 prerelease/reg code because of this situation is speculation. Saying I am entitled is speculation as well I guess. I've heard that some SE owners don't qualify for anything because they got their boards long before Earlybird came to be, but I've got a late XE board shortly before the switch to MicroA1.

I'm not totally screwed, because I'm in the beta group. But I can't register OS4 as I think I should be able to. (No one of authority has told me I'm wrong in thinking that, so I continue to do so) I can't download OS4-native patches for their other software. (No one of authority has told me I should not be able to do that, so I continue believing I should)


Quote:

So unless you brought a copy of OS4 from hyperion directly

Didn't know that was possible. Don't know if I should (and risk getting a full CD in the mail anyway if something is someday resolved). Don't know how.

Well, enough crying about this for one day.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!