@broadblues

Well, ideally you should be able to just click them in Amidock or something, but most programs even if they register don't add an icon.

Anyway, you could run it in the background at startup and summon with a hotkey, like task manager.

(FWIW I use DepthToFront too, bringing individual windows to the front is more useful than selecting by application)

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@Xenic

Quote:

I can't imagine why anyone would invest in a complete surround sound system for a computer when most available music is stereo

If all you use your computer for is listening to music, then yes probably overkill - but so is using a desktop just to listen to music. If you watch DVDs/bluray/stream movies, use a pc as a media centre instead of tv, play modern games and/or work with digital media then it's a reasonable, if not sensible addition to a setup; I've had at least a 5.1 setup with the pc/media centre like this for over 10 years. If we're to maintain our enjoyment and/or compatibility of the Amiga with what are essentially now industry standards then we need to at least try and keep up with "recent" advances. The new(er) hardware has audio chipsets built in, so why not provide software support for it?

Quote:

I've reverted to the OS4 sound datatype for now. Do I need to remove the mod.datatype, mpega.datatype, & wav.datatype?

Alas, yes.

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@XyPsy

Quote:

simply because Amiga lacks any task bar capability for a quick and easy task switching,

Have you tried the Winbar docky? It make this little easier...

http://os4depot.net/index.php?function=showfile&file=utility/docky/winbar-docky.lha

Last edited by marko on 03-Sep-2016 at 02:39 AM.

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Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution...
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@ChrisY

Quote:

Exchanger doesn't seem to support the "Window to front" functionality of AppManager/application.library - can that be added @amigakit?

There is no need for it. If you press the "Show Interface" button, it will either bring the window to front if it's hidden behind another window, or uniconify (and come to front) if it's in iconified state. I didn't want to introduce another command (and button) to clutter the interface.

However, I plan to add another menu with a full set of Application Library commands. This could be useful for testing your software to see if it reacts properly to external control commands. Unfortunately, my time for development is zero at the moment: after the birth of our first baby we've moved house, which required a rather lengthy reconstruction including a complete rewiring of the electricity supply network (still not finished although we're getting close). My Sam is currently packed in a box somewhere around

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SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@salass00

Quote:

The bug was triggered by subclassing window.class which is why it affected DiskImageGUI as well as InfoWindow.class. As broadblues said it should be fixed in the latest beta version of window.class.

What a relief to hear that! Thanks for confirming the bug is fixed now.

_________________
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SAM440ep-flex @ 667MHz / 1GB RAM / Radeon 9250 / AmigaOS 4.1 Final Edition

@Trixie

"This could be useful for testing your software to see if it reacts properly to external control commands"

By waiting that Trixie have time to do that, you can use Applications tab of SysMon, all Applications commans are available (even CustomMsg) to test an Application.

Last edited by zzd10h on 03-Sep-2016 at 08:39 AM.

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@broadblues Quote:

It's relatively trivial to open a screen that's lile the workbench already just use SA_LikeWorkbench so a special like workbench mode is hardly needed

It may be trivial, but that doesn't stop most Amiga programs I use not supporting a LikeWorkbench custom screen. And most of them won't get updated...

Quote:

I'm a big fan of the depth to front commodity that enables much easier depeth arranging of windows by right clicking on the window or screen depth gadget.

I have DepthToFront set-up so that double-clicking the window title bar (or border) brings it to the front. Very handy. But multiple screens is even better (for bigger programs) :)

Quote:

Errm there's a Like Workbench drop down chooser in the GUI presf and Palette prefs tab. So setting up a screen that look like the workbench is trivial.

Hmmm, OK, I was getting a bit confused. It's IS that simple *if* you don't mind having Compositing enabled on all your screens... but that eats-up video memory (not good on a Sam440!).

I had to create a special custom GUI prefs file with Compositing disabled. IMHO there should be an option for "Compositing on Workbench only".

Quote:

Eeek no! The point of screen prefs is that it automatically promotes / opens / setups pre exiting named screens and leaves other alone.

Says who? If the user wants to put a program on a new Public Screen, they currently have to do this cumbersom & not-very-intuitive process:
1. Leave the program they are trying to configure & go back to the Workbench.
2. Go to Sys:Prefs/Screens, and create the named public screen.
3. Go back to their program, and finally tell it to use a public screen with the same name as the one they just created.

My proposal seems a big improvement IMHO:
1. They tell their program to use a public screen name of their choosing.
2. The program (tries to open this screen, the OS notices it doesn't exist yet &) asks if they wanted to create it. The user clicks Yes.

Last edited by ChrisH on 03-Sep-2016 at 11:35 AM.

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@broadblues Quote:

Quote: Yes if it finds an existing version (either old Hyperion version or previous release Enhancer Software version), it warns user and they can Skip or Proceed. I think ChrisH's point is that it [the installer] doesn't specifically highlight replacements of OS components, the most important being SFS2 Format and the diskcache kickstart component.

Yes, you are correct about the point I was trying to make.

Last edited by ChrisH on 03-Sep-2016 at 11:40 AM.

_________________
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@ChrisH

Quote:

Says who? If the user wants to put a program on a new Public Screen, they currently have to do this cumbersom & not-very-intuitive process: 1. Leave the program they are trying to configure & go back to the Workbench. 2. Go to Sys:Prefs/Screens, and create the named public screen. 3. Go back to their program, and finally tell it to use a public screen with the same name as the one they just created.

Earlier you were advocated the power of screen switching....

Bearing that in mnd, the correct and simples procedure is ...

Start program on it's own public screen from the programs own settings.

Toggle back to work bench screen

Start screens prefs

Choose insert open screen.

Modify settings to suit, save screens prefs, there after that program will always open on a promoted screen.

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@ChrisH
Quote:

Hmmm, OK, I was getting a bit confused. It's IS that simple *if* you don't mind having Compositing enabled on all your screens... but that eats-up video memory (not good on a Sam440!). I had to create a special custom GUI prefs file with Compositing disabled. IMHO there should be an option for "Compositing on Workbench only".

The deault is compositing off. So if you set the <<default>> screen to use defaults, the compositing will only be on on the workbench screen (and screens where you specify like workbench).

You would only need a custom setup if you want the them to be as much like workbench s possible but without compositing, in which you can save a custom set of prefs, but then that is avery custom setup.

Last edited by broadblues on 03-Sep-2016 at 01:28 PM.

_________________
BroadBlues On Blues BroadBlues On Amiga Walker Broad

Quick question re: ClipViewer:

When I doubleclick the ClipViewer window, it does not
bring the window to the front (I have ClickToFront set
to run at startup). Is this normal behavior?

The only way I can bring the window to the front is to click
on the depth gadget.

@Drule
Quote:

The new(er) hardware has audio chipsets built in, so why not provide software support for it?

It can never hurt to have additional features if they don't have a negative impact on current features.

I hope that you can fix the signaling problem and release an update soon. Here are some effects that the signaling bug may have on some of the programs I've worked on:

Dopus5 - Due to the asnychronous nature of Dopus5, the internal sound play will probably appear to work normally to the user. However, the sounds plays may pile up because they are waiting for the completion signal. That would appear as a memory leak and possible unreleased resources with an unexpunged module when a user quits Dopus5.

Dopus4 - When the internal sound play is used, Dopus4 will display a "wait" pointer and lock up until the completion signal is received.

Jabberwocky - Event notification sounds will stop working after the first notification is played and quitting the program will leave unreleased resources plus a child process that can't be removed.

USBSound - After the first insert & remove sound notification, sound notification will stop working. Removing or disabling the commodity will probably not be possible and if it can somehow be removed there will probably be unreleased resources.

_________________
X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

@Xenic

Thanks for the report, the fix is relatively straight forward, we hope to have a hotfix update for it very shortly.

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@amigakit
Thanks. It's important to prevent any negative impact on users by the signal issue. The mono/stereo issue is trivial and unlikely to be noticed by many users.

_________________
X1000 with 2GB memory & OS4.1FE

@Xenic

Problem fixed, pmail me with your email address so I can send you the updated Sound DTC binary.

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@ChrisH

Quote:

Nonsense. Amiga is GREAT at multitasking *IF* the user uses the Amiga feature known as "multiple screens". I can quickly & easily switch between my web browser, news reader, email, Workbench, etc by cycling through them (or if really necessary, right-clicking the depth gadget to get a list of screens).

And what about iconified programs can you switch between them? see what I mean?

I know the left Amiga key + M shortcut but I don't like using screens instead of windows, and some programs can't be be used in a separate screen, imagine using TuneNet in a separate screen, it's a waste of both space and time.

right clicking on depth gadget is only available for OS 4.1 users and it's not very handy, try to open more than 30 windows and you will see that right clicking on depth gadget wouldn't show you all opened windows to switch between them.

When I said that AmigaOS is terrible at switching task I was referring to Classic AmigaOS mostly which Enhancer Software Pack support, I know there are many task switcher dockies available for AmiDock in OS 4.1 while Classic AmiDock for OS 3.9 lack the support of these dockies. I believe that X-Dock in it's current state does not have a very desirable features to attract OS 4.1 users, this is not the case for OS 3.9 users who needs badly a new Dock.

I don't deny that task switching in OS 4.1 is better than 3.9. However OS 4.1 in it's default installation is to a certain degree terrible in task switching in the things I mentioned. Still I think task switching must be more intuitive and faster without workarounds. I mean even the 21+ years Windows 95 has an easier and faster task switching in it's famous task bar, and you can flip easily between apps in almost all mainstream operating systems using (Alt + Tab) or (Cmd + Tab for OS X), Every body use windows today and the majority consider Windows as a standard for every other OS, I think that fast and easy task switching is essential today and I think we must make it more standard in Amiga even by using similar Windows technique, even iconifying apps on Workbench screen is not intuitive anymore and most people prefer minimizing app like windows task bar or OS X Dock, look at the how famous and powerful programs like Blender or The foundry's Modo made the choice to remap their workflow and shortcuts to be more like 3DS Max or Autodesk Maya because these are the standard in 3D programs.

And not only task switching in Amiga as general is terrible, the file management is also terrible compared to other systems today, I'm not talking about DirMeUp or Directory Opus I'm talking about the standard Workbench file manager, even Windows 95 has a better file manager, and yes I know that OS 4.1 brings many enhancements to Workbench file management including copy and paste files but it isn't there yet, I think this is the reason why some people prefer MorphOS over OS 4.1 because it has the somewhat decent Ambient file manager.

Sometimes I wonder how new blood and very young people become users of AmigaOS, I mean I used AmigaOS since I was a boy yet I find it very annoying as a user experience compared to other OSes

Last edited by XyPsy on 04-Sep-2016 at 10:05 AM.
Last edited by XyPsy on 04-Sep-2016 at 05:54 AM.
Last edited by XyPsy on 04-Sep-2016 at 05:43 AM.
Last edited by XyPsy on 04-Sep-2016 at 05:25 AM.

@XyPsy

I see, but...

Quote:

and yes I know that OS 4.1 brings many enhancements to Workbench file management including copy and paste files but it isn't there yet,

I use Filer for almost all my file management, it's pretty much almost perfect IMHO

_________________
AmigaOS 4.1 FEu2 on Sam440ep-flex 800MHz 1GB RAM
C128, A500+, A1200, A1200/40, AmigaForever 2008+09+16, 5 x86/x64 boxes
Still waiting (or dreaming) for the Amiga revolution...
m4rko.com/AMIGA

@amigakit

Thanks, I truly believe that A-EON Technology is the best thing that happened to Amiga in many AEONs

I really hope that most Amigans purchase your software and hardware because you are the most reliable and innovative Amiga company and you really deserve to be N#1 in our small community.

However to sell OS 4.1 machines in higher numbers I think that Hyperion and A-EON should target the retro gaming fans as I think they are the majority of Amiga users today, and not only today for the Amiga since the Amiga launch it was games that drives the Amiga sales not video editing market nor any serious or even graphic Amiga applications like DPaint, Commodore sold 5-10 million Amigas and I can say for sure that more than 95% purchased the Amiga for games only, people are disappointed by NG Amiga sales and wonder where is the 5-10 million Amiga users to try NG Amiga but they don't realize that the majority of those millions purchased the Amiga for games and for games only, just look at the number who watch Amiga games in youtube (sometime it reach a million) and compare them with the small number who watch serious Amiga uses video on youtube.

keep in mind that Amiga began as a console and it was the Batman and other gaming packs that made the Amiga sold millions, even the famous guru meditation idea was from an Atari game back then. the majority of people I know purchased A500 at the time for it's games only and when A500 plus / A600 came out nobody wanted one because it can't run some games and demos even many magazines talked about how a great leap OS 2 was over 1.3, this situation was little changed with A1200 arrival as it has better game graphics but still A500 was the most favorite Amiga because it can play the most games and demos unlike A1200.

If you look at Amiga sales figures you'll notice that A500 has the largest share (5-100 times compared to other models), As you can see the Amiga sales problem did not start after Commodore demise it started during Commodore heydays after they stopped A500 production which was the favorite for gamers (Still even today), cancelling A500 production actually accelerated C= bankruptcy, many people did not even like the new grey color workbench 2.0 and the new animated 'Insert disk' in kickstart 2 because it was very different from their favorite A500 style.

You may ask how can AmigaOne machines attract retro gamers, first of all the look and feel of both NG hardware and software, in software make AmigaOS with it's apps more consistent with A500 kickstart and non system friendly games and demos, I always felt that there is a missing link between classic Amiga Kickstart and Workbench, and I think that CANDI and Ringhio notification could play the role of this missing link if it was used wisely.

For example A-EON could make CANDI interactive (or lets call it i-CANDI for short from now on), this i-CANDI would display a guru meditation screen when a program's error happens, it might show a famous demo or game loading screen when some programs are loading, or it might show the famous Amiga insert disk when Workbench is looking for a volume (USB flash stick or DVD), i-CANDI can also display internet live camera photos from all over the world, i-CANDI can even show simple interactive game like shooting rabbits or birds.

For notifications we could make Ringhio messages display some famous games or demos animations (using GIF format) with sounds (like dragon's lair or space ace animation scenes or even animations from the famous state of the art demo), and we have personal paint as a very good tool for making animated GIFs.

A-EON can also make hidden features of their programs (or hardware like they did in X5000 boards) these hidden features could show some famous game characters like lemmings, zool, worms, shadow of the beast (maybe as a secret Easter egg), Disney did that when they hided Mickey mouse characters between the fine detail of their movies like Aladdin for example. many gamers might not heard of Amiga but very few of them never heard of lemmings and the recent PS4 Shadow Of The Beast. I think these hidden features could make some game fans interested in AmigaOS 4 programs or at least they might spot the light of these programs in their videos and websites.

And the best way to attract retro gaming fans to NG Amiga is to make OS 4.1 the best platform for creating and playing the retro feeling 2D games, and by retro feeling games I mean games that has less than 256 colors with Amiga trackers style music (like the new Amiga Racer although I never try it), and A-EON have very good tools to make such games, personal paint and OctaMED.

2D games requires small team, time and resources unlike 3D ones, I think that 256 colors games are faster to design for graphic artists than 24 bit ones because they have much tolerance for mistakes unlike true color ones which must be near perfect, with 256 colors we could make amazing games even today, look at how wonderful Neo Geo titles we have, most of them are 256 colors or less, and yet many gamers prefer them over decent 2D true color ones.

One other enhancement I'd like to see is large and easy to spot pointers (with different designs and colors) for both OS 4.1 and 3.x, current pointers for Amiga is too small and does not fit full HD resolution.

Last edited by XyPsy on 04-Sep-2016 at 11:23 AM.
Last edited by XyPsy on 04-Sep-2016 at 11:20 AM.
Last edited by XyPsy on 04-Sep-2016 at 09:52 AM.

@marko

Yes filer is a good file manager, I was talking about standard WB not third party apps.

I'm fully aware of third party task switcher for OS 4.1 like WinBar, however I never use it simply because I use OS 4.1 in WinUAE and I don't want to waste any ram on third parties hacks, and I'm not an OS 4.1 avid user although I like it.

there is a good one called SSDR that I spot in this youtube video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UbEsHwEkPQ

Last edited by XyPsy on 04-Sep-2016 at 09:53 AM.

@ broadblues

Quote:

I don't think messing with the workbench backdrop is good idea, we already have one horrid hack doing this (CANDI) we don't need another.... lyrics could be displayed in a ringhio notification though perhaps, or scroll in the skinned / Reaction GUI.

MUI is considered a hack yet many people prefer it over ReAction, I'm not a hack lover but there is no other alternative from Hyperion, so we have no choice

A-EON made CANDI to show the real power of NG Amiga, many think that eye candies is unhealthy phenomena which I disagree, just look how OS X starts and how Steve Jobs main focus was the eye candies of his new baby, it was all about eye candies!

Quote:

To be quite honest, scrolling lyrics is pain, as someone who might want to read lyrics whilst learning a song I want to read ahead , reread what was just sung etc etc....

it does not have to be scrolling, it can be animated without scrolling or simply showing each line then fading out, and I'm talking about slow rhythm songs not Rap!

Quote:

Sounds like you want a CANDI based scope for TuneNet, TuneNet already supports scopes so all that would be needed is for CANDI to listen to the tunenet scope plugin API, but bear in mind that runs at 25Hz / 50Hz I don't think candi runs at anywhere near that kind of frame rate except on the fastest HDRadeon cards.

does it have to be so slow? I mean I don't think we need the advanced composite features of RadeonHD, I'm not technical minded guy though.