Quote:

So again, please tell me why I should be productive then? I program for OS4, I enjoy the system, I do stuff to help others program for OS4, but when it comes to actually letting me know what the future holds, it's all silent. So you don't say anything because we're supposedly not trusting you, and I don't program because I see no future... See what I mean?

Does that really matter ? Actually I don't really care - and I don't even want to know (or be involved). Someone should (will) release OS4. Or at least what will be left of it (?) and, maybe later there will be OS5 (or even at the same time).

I enjoy(ed) coding for it, and I still hope something will be available and the code can be easily ported as long an OS4 API layer will exist.

This kind of thing even happend to the Mac, when OS9 was at a dead end, even thought it's successor was already in development, then cam Rhapsody, and later OS-X based on something completely different. But still, OS9 SW ran on it, and Cocoa, etc.

I think the legal issues might be based on some components, which I would guess even Hyperion does not own, but might have an agreement to bundle with OS4. What if they simply cannot resolve this issue, because they cannot sell those back to AI ? That's still an legal issue, but much more complicated then just a "dispute".

At least that's how I'd understand Bills
Quote:

Bill McEwen -- Anyone who worked, works, or is going to work on OS 4 better get paid. We have made offers to Hyperion to resolve this matter that we believe are fair, but we have been turned down on three separate occasions. At this point, we are still trying to work it out.

I just hope that everybody will come to an agreement. If not, AmigaInc could still support AmigaOS4 but use it as a base to penetrate their market for AmigaOS5. I think they don't really have an interesst, not to allow OS4 to appear, even though, that might not the best situation in the current form for AI (from their POV). However, by building a base and defining a route from OS4->OS5, they will eventually own it anyway thru OS5.

Maybe that's just my little imagination, but why not ?

I am still curious what's OS5 is based on. On the OS4 kernel ? I'd still hope something like a intent type ABI abstraction combined with OS4 components and thus make it binary compatible across cpus, but still integrate a ppc or/and 68k ISA (for backward compatibility). But that's probably too far fetched. But given their experience with intent now, that would really create a new unique OS.

I hope this time its for real. I still hope OS4 will be available before Christmas and we'll see some OS5 news by next year. I also would be happy, if OS4 enabled machines can upgrade to OS5. This would be important for people now hestitating to buy an OS4 machine.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

@Samwel

From what Bill said in the interview, it sounds like it's all a done deal. For better or worse, OS4 seems to belong to Amiga Inc now. Amiga Inc and Hyperion seem to be arguing about how much money needs to change hands, and Amiga Inc is holding the platform hostage by withholding licenses in the meantime. I wonder if Bill realizes that hardware companies that make over $500K a year don't like to be jerked around like that, so all he's doing is slowly killing the platform; eventually there will be no-one with a $500K revenue interested in making hardware any more (we may have hit that point already)

Quote:

ventually there will be no-one with a $500K revenue interested in making hardware any more (we may have hit that point already)

So true The way he casually dismissed Troika as almost a renegade outfit was completely uncalled for. If Troika has not yet approached Amiga Inc. then there's probably a reason (may be they want to be able to deomonstrate working/manufacturable hardware first). Amiga Inc are not exactly encouraging/courting a business deal with Troika with the tone of language used!

_________________
"Art challenges technology. Technology inspires the art."
John Lasseter, Co-Founder of Pixar Animation Studios

@CodeSmith

Quote:

From what Bill said in the interview, it sounds like it's all a done deal. For better or worse, OS4 seems to belong to Amiga Inc now. Amiga Inc and Hyperion seem to be arguing about how much money needs to change hands, and Amiga Inc is holding the platform hostage by withholding licenses in the meantime.

This seems to be the case. But I really hope it's not.
Hopefully Troika, ACK and the Samantha Project have no problem ataining a licence.

_________________
/Harry

[SOLD] µA1-C - 750GX 800MHz - 512MB - Antec Aria case

Avatar by HNL_DK!

@Jorge

Quote:

Does that really matter ? Actually I don't really care - and I don't even want to know (or be involved). Someone should (will) release OS4. Or at least what will be left of it (?) and, maybe later there will be OS5 (or even at the same time).

Of course it matters. If developers don't see a future for the system why should they invest time and/or money into programs for it? This is still a developers pre-release, remember? Developers are supposed to be doing apps so that when users get OS4 in their hands they have something to play with. It's not like the current userbase of ~1500 OS4 users (I guess, might be ~2000 users?) will sustain any kind of market for much longer.

Regards,
Joachim Birging

_________________
Common sense - So rare it's almost like a super power

@CodeSmith

Quote:

From what Bill said in the interview, it sounds like it's all a done deal. For better or worse, OS4 seems to belong to Amiga Inc now.

Define "OS4" please. If you mean something like the AmigaOS4 Update4 CD with "OS4" that wouldn't even be possible if Hyperion would want to sell it to Amiga Inc., they can't sell parts they don't own.

There is nothing interesting nor surprising in the answers them self, the only part which is the "and yes there is a path from OS 4 to OS 5" in the update
(and I just mean "interesting and surprising", not "probably true" or "it makes any sense" or something like that )

Quote:

OS7 is based on Vista and we all know OS8 came straight out of Roswell, New Mexico!

Wait a minute...I thought those aliens ran Windows 95?!?! Dang! My whole universe has been turned upside down now!

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

Quote:

Of course it matters.

Yes, but still. We are all a bunch of dreamers. Just let it coming. You can't seriously build a business plan on what is available right now and what we know. This is simply to risky. We have to wait anyway.

I for myself don't believe anything is over or not. I though Commodore is over. All of a sudden they're back (maybe with more money in the back then AI). Now, all of a sudden AI has money, too.

What does the interview change on the matter. I mean, honestly. If he's right and everything becomes true. Fine. But I also did not see what would change the immediate situation. He at least confirmed 2 licenses.

They are about to finalizing these two licenses (and I hope, that eventually Troika will get one, too). What for ? If nobody is allowed to deliver their HW with OS4. That doesn't make sence. In the worst case, that just means, these boards/machines will be sold with a Pre-Release. I guess who ever signs a license agreement with Amiga, knows what OS they will ship with the machine,and that ain't OS5 for sure.

We have know idea what OS5 would be (nor if it really exists), so why all of a sudden would that change anything for OS4 ? Get it out guys! (the OS4, that is).

But then, I am in a convenient situation. I have OS4 already (at least a pre version). I can wait and see.

I still hope they get all that stuff resolved. I would like to learn more about OS5 (but more from an engineering POV and simply because I'm nosy). If they (AI) can keep their self- esteem and really deliver, it's at least interessting to see they try to define something like a roadmap (even though, I believe 4->5->6 within 5 years is a bit optimistic, but maybe they really pretty far, and it is indeed an AmigaOS4++). That sound maybe overly optimistic, but then, I don't really care if they don't come up with an answer anytime soon. Life is way to short to put that on to my list of priorities.

_________________
AmigaOne XE G3/933/VIA/FM801/R200 (fixed),
G3SE/600/Voodoo3/Sil680/RTL8139/SBLive! (noiseless!)
µA1-MK2/G3/933/R200/CMI8738
XE/G4 (broken 7450/800)

Quote:

its time for less typing guys and more productivity.

_________________
When swimming with sharks, make sure to bring lots of band-aids...

@ amigang

Quote:

What I don’t get is why is Bill talking now, when from the sounds of things everything will be sorted in the next few months anyway, wouldn’t it be better to break the silence then.

[Cynical mode on]
Maybe something to do with the 'legal problems' between themselves and Hyperion. What with the buy back clause, and the 'deemed to have ceased development of classic amigaOS if an enhanced version is not released within 6 months. maybe with the impending release of OS4 capable hardware, this could be seen as Bill's way of letting Hyperion know they are in a position to match both those points. Only time will tell. [Cynical mode off]

On the other hand this could all be Kosha, and AInc are going to support/develop OS4/5.

_________________
Peter Swallow.
A1XEG3-800 [IBM 750FX PowerPC], running OS4.1FE, using ac97 onboard sound.

"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who understand binary, and those who don't."

@Herewegoagain

Quote:

Quote: [Me]: Recent developments could indicate that release of Amy 05 w/o explicit, direct license from AI is about to be attempted... I can imagine a horrible legal mess developing...

I said "COULD indicate." I hope I'm off the mark. I suspect that, even if it is being considered, it won't happen. Outcome too unpredictable, and it would probably be the end of any possibility of agreement between Hyperion and AI.

Quote:

There is no way in h3ll that I spend money on a motherboard with an illegal copy of OS4. If that is what they are planning, then count me out.

As Bobson points out, Hyperion may figure they have a legal leg to stand on (or perhaps threaten to stand on). I don't think either Troika or Hyperion would contemplate doing something that is clearly illegal on both sides of the Atlantic.

JKD's post from amiga.org sums it up nicely, I think:
Quote:

WTF is this? A low flying time warp? OS5 on schedule and rockin'? Welcome to 4 years ago.....? Seriously now....anyone buy any of this crap (apart from the Hyperion/AI OS4 dispute...which seems plausible)

Too bad that some STILL after all these years seem to believe anything AInc/McEwen say (regarding the stuff where they have reason to deceive).

_________________
Oh, bother.

Quote:

"The Frieden brothers are not Hyperion." This is pure BS. A VOF is exactly the same as handelsbolag in Sweden and I'm sure you know how that works. Two people own the company together with equal rights and obligations to the company. It's not a share- holding company where the owners are protected from legal issues. In a VOF both are equally obligated to the court. This is a company model that works well with, in this case, two brothers or a wife and husband. It's not a company model you would chose with your friend.. If Hyperion is brought to court both the owners are dragged in as well.

Sigh...

The only comment I'm going to make in this matter:

Hyperion is NOT, NEVER WAS, and NEVER WILL BE owned by Hans-Jörg and me. We are not even employed by Hyperion, we are independent contractors, since 8 years.

Since a VOF is an open company, I suggest that before you go on talking about things you don't know, you go and check your facts.

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

@all

This is an explicit warning: the previous post clarifies (ie Entilzha's) the Friedens' position and status with regards to Hyperion. Leave them out of it.

_________________

Removed post: personal attack

Last edited by tomazkid on 15-Sep-2006 at 03:45 PM.

_________________
Eagerly awaiting the X1000

Contemplate this.

Eventually, OS4 and PPC hardware are released and are snapped up to much fanfare by the immediate community, and Hyperion, Troika and Amiga Inc finally make some money. There'll be a lot of press, and a lot of criticism for picking an expensive and obscure platform leading to calls for an x86 version too.

Then less than 6 months later, in keeping within the parameters of the buyout clause, AmigaInc releases OS5 which would be a port of OS4 to x86. I find it inconceivable that a contractor(Hyperion) could work on what is effectively A.Inc's code and not periodically return backups of their development.

It doesn't matter what crap Amiga Inc releases as OS5, as long as it is a different version they would get through their buyback clause. For all we know OS5 could be an enhanced version of Amithlon perhaps with OS4 functionality integrated. Amithlon IIRC was a product that A.Inc pulled off the market but still retain the source code to. An outside possibility is an enhanced AROS port akin to MorphOS(I know they share some code but are not the same at all).

But....OS5 would most likely be built for a small range of x86 mobos and sold as Amigas. An argument for this is to prevent all the hardware support headaches and to retain the Amiga's recognition as a hardware platform akin to Apple. It's also incidentally a good way for A.Inc to make a quick buck in the Windows/PC market with Amiga's brand recognition and still retain community support with an official x86 AmigaOS to differentiate it from the competition. This could be the hardware negotiations that Bill is talking about. They may not necessarily be related to PPC hardware at all. I might run Windows on my Mac but I bought the Mac primarily to run MacOS and why wouldn't tha tbe the same argument for a dual boot AmigaOS x86 machine.

Additionally there is no reason that PPC hardware and x86 hardware sales could not co-exist. There'll be diehards that will want to stick to PPC and if enough are sold it would remain a popular platform effectively become a classic. There's no reason that OS4 and OS5 could not co-exist with the same API albeit different hardware architectures. Just because Apple decided to kill off their PPC hardware doesn't necessarily mean that it has to be done with a community that still hangs on to generation old 68k hardware for dear life.

OS6(or even OS4.x) could contain all these additional service programs like Fleecy was always on about(I must go back and read Ask Fleecy). Gary Hare also mentioned his vision of a grand AmigaOS being a network enabled OS and Bill just recently reminded us of the Amiga Operating Environment as a possible a new workbench replacement(of course optional). He also outlined his desire for AmigaOS to be multiplatform, so an x86 version and a PPC could even be intended to co-exist.

I think it is right for Hyperion to get their fair share regarding OS4 and sales for PPC hardware, but OS5 on x86....is another matter entirely isn't it? I mean where do you draw the line?

So where is Intent in all this? Bill stated quite firmly that OS5 is not based on intent, but that does not mean that OS5 will not contain software written for Intent. There is a high likelyhood that the enhanced services that Bill was talking about providing through to OS6 will be based on Intent(with know x86 support). I think OS6 would be an x86 port(OS5) plus all the additional Amiga Intent services. If OS4 sells well, and it means sales then I am sure they would consider backporting Intent to PPC increasing the OS4.x version number, hopefully in a co-inciding manner.

There's no reason why Hyperion could not continue upgrading the PPC based OS4, and Amiga Inc resynchronising that to OS5. Hyperion continues to make money off OS4.x and Amiga Inc continue to sell OS5. OS5 effectively competes with OS4 but hell, if PPC makes more sense to the consumer as Hyperion planned then what is the harm, that is Hyperion's market.

Ok. Going back to my happy place.

_________________
Leo Nigro, CTO Commodore USA, LLC
Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

@Oppressor
Quote:

Removed edited quote/tomazkid

Your comment is unpolite and unnecessary, and may be perceived - as I in fact do - as a straightforward attack. It can only stir troubles. Please consider withdrawing it.

saimo

Last edited by tomazkid on 15-Sep-2006 at 03:57 PM.

_________________
RETREAM - retro dreams for Amiga, Commodore 64 and PC

@Oppressor, what on earth are you on about? They have repeatedly stated that they are not employees of Hyperion; how many times must they say it for people to stop bringing it up.

Secondly, who the hell are you to tell me how to run my personal affairs? Keep it up, I beg you, to see the vacation you'll be taking from this site.

_________________

@BigBentheAussie

You've got some good points there.

I would like to see OS4 and the PPC-hardware as an Amiga
developer-pool wich could then be used to enhance OS5.

Btw. was that not the original plan, or am i wrong?

_________________
A1G3-SE + OS4.1 u1 iso (x2)

Any mirrors avaiable? amiga.org is down right now :(