@ yoodoo2
< OT >
I shall not presume to debate you on "real English" but from my experience (ie my collegues at Wilkos in Stourbridge where I trained - at the Northfield store at the mo), people in the Black Country spell colour correctly lol

This particular bee in my bonnet is due to the destruction of the English language in a certain country in particular and then the assimilation of these abberations by those across the globe learning what they think is English from TV.

Oh and by the way, I went to King Edwards VI Five Ways, hence the apparent surgical removal of my "Brummie" dialect!

Actually it's probably why my column in Micro mart is so damned dry....
< /OT >
Oh well... once my lounge is reassembled, FINALLY, my A1 will be set up and OS4 final installed (a CD-R has already been produced) and I hope that the Amiga feeling will be fully back. (Well as best as it can without a "proper" keyboard and an uncomfortable and incredibly unergonomic square mouse!)

A huge thank you to Hyperion and their team of people for completing (well almost - still Blizzards, Cyberstorms and new hardware, hopefully, to contend with) a project that so many people had condemned or simply written off. A big thank you for giving the Amiga a fighting chance of so much as surviving.

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Sven Harvey
Amiga Mart in Micro Mart, Geekology 4M@, and other places
A1000, A2000, A1500 A500, CDTV, A500+, A600, A4000, A1200, CD32, AT A1200HD, A1-XE

Thank you to hyperion for those/our OS 4

Quote:

This particular bee in my bonnet is due to the destruction of the English language in a certain country in particular and then the assimilation of these abberations by those across the globe learning what they think is English from TV

"Hwæt! We Gardena in geardagum
þeodcyninga þrym gefrunon
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon."

Yes, it's really quite terrible how you speak and write English today compared to back when proper English was spoken. Whereas other languages have been known to borrow or even steal from one another, English is, I believe, the only one to chase foreign languages down alleyways, beat them to a bloody pulp and steal anything of value - then melt it and try to sell it all back again (much to the dismay of speakers of other languages who feel their languages are being eroded by adaption of too many foreign loan words).

Thank you, thank you, thank you - the whole team has done a wonderful job.

I am looking forward to any, and every, bit of news in the new year, hopefully PS3 being one of them.

I have a word of warning, do not do what I did some time ago - that is accidentally formatting all partitions with the smart file system - it really confuses Uboot, and you will need to get the disk totally clean (OS4 will not boot from anywhere with such a disk on the system). Hence I can peek at the new OS version but not actually install it.

The peek, however, has been a great taste of what has been achieved - it looks good, getting rid of "tools" make sense, the whole thing is tight and light and just as it should be.

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

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Oh and by the way, I went to King Edwards VI Five Ways, hence the apparent surgical removal of my "Brummie" dialect!

Now, if anyone could surgically remove the remaints of my bloody accent...

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A very big thankyou to everyone involved with OS4.

Merry Christmas and a very happy new year.

Andy.

Quote:

@corwin I won't even try to explain it, 'cause I'm pretty sure you did get what I was trying to say, didn't you?

Yes, you mean that amigaOS release planning is similar to other professional projects, the problem is that it is not the case.

Your comparison with Firefox is wrong because contrary to the amigaOS project, the Firefox release cycle follows a logic that is well documented, planned and release dates are largely met. I know when and why a gecko branch is cut and the technical reasons behind it, no Christmas surprise.

I have no idea why the last AOS update is labelled as "final" and why some people here think something has changed in amigaland that is worth mentionning outside of the amiga related sites. A few hundred people using retro hardware got an amigaOS 4 update that is labelled as Final, period. There is no new product released, nothing to buy for potential users, not even a mention on amiga.com.

As long as the product isn't available to real end-users, AmigaOS4 isn't released, it's just a proof of concept. Let me quote somebody else on this :

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EntilZha> The thing to happen for OS4 to be released is _availability_ of hardware, that is, you should be able to actually order a machine with OS4 in a shop. As such, the final version depends on the mass production of hardware.

@Corwin: when was that quote said ?

That would be interesting to have some response to that from EntilZha
himself...

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http://www.warpdesign.fr/

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hyperionmp: Quote: The rest of us will enjoy the fact that Amiga OS 4.0 - The Final Update (which is the version that will be used as a master for the CD production) has now been made available. Master for the CD production. In my eyes that means that Amiga OS 4.0 has gone gold!

Yeah, but you got to consider the source. This is Ben Hermans, who wouldn't know a master for a CD production from a toaster, and has a habit of
conveniently misremembering his blunders later.

Just think for a second --- if the ISO now downloadable indeed was sent off to the CD manufacturers, then the resulting CDs would be "OS4 for AmigaOne" CDs, right? But if one thing is sure about the new hardware-to-be-announced, it is that it won't be MAI/VIA based AmigaOnes. There is a small chance that it will be based on the same G3/G4 processors, but more likely, it won't.

So I'll bet you Australian dollars for Euros that "OS4 --- the CD version to be sold retail or with new hardware" will be substantially different from the CD many have burnt in the last couple of days.

Last edited by umisef on 27-Dec-2006 at 01:23 AM.

Dear corwin,

Please give it a rest. It is final because it has been proclaimed as such, there will not be another update in this series. It could not be simpler.

Why am I happy? Simple enough, what I now have is deemed by its creators as having the feature set, level of stability and general overall feel that they are satisfied is marketable and I agree with them from what I have seen.

For a meaningful public market release there has to be new HW, which they believe is not too far away and I have no reason to doubt.

When MOS was released, no one went there with such nit-picking, nor is AROS plagued with such comments, but woe betide OS4 for actually achieving anything, let alone declaring a version final.

AOS4 is looking good, it deserves at this stage to be finalized, surely enough said.

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia

Quote:

When MOS was released, no one went there with such nit-picking

Actually, there was far worse but this is way too off topic and should not continue. Please.

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Quote:

When MOS was released, no one went there with such nit-picking, nor is AROS plagued with such comments, but woe betide OS4 for actually achieving anything, let alone declaring a version final.

it is just because we were lied for so many years. You must understand the anger. And beside that, i remember on forums it has been said that ainc will make legal problems to mos team. If that is true and ainc wants to keep os monopoly, i will not give them a dime. But before flaming, i am not quite sure about this. I would MOST like to see BOTH of os'es on every avaliable PPC machine. Being that efika, sam, samantha or other name. So the user can make a choice of which OS is better for him. Only THAT way, both companies will give the best of them

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May the force be with you...

Quote:

what I now have is deemed by its creators as having the feature set, level of stability and general overall feel that they are satisfied is marketable

Without AmigaInput, without SNAP, and without WarpUp compatibility, without Mesa/OpneGL, and with Nova having been cancelled? Without paging, without automatic stack extension, without mmap() support? Without MooVidPPC, without MUI? Without even the boot jingle?

OS4, as delivered on Christmas Eve, falls short of the March 2002 feature list, which was itself just a rehash of the January 2002 Status Update. It also falls short of the January 2003 Feature Set Document.

Thank you Hyperion. Now I have a nother reason to get my A1 fixed.
It's been dead for over a year. I'll get it fixed in the new year.

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A fully native version of MUI 3.9 IS included.

SNAP was cancelled as it was the product is being discontinued by its creators, SciTech.

Full OpenGL functionality was put on hold pending a complete rewrite of the 2D graphics system with better integration with the 3D system but is available in the form of MiniGL and third party MESA port.

DVPlayer replaces MooVID.

Other than that, it should be noted quite a bit more functionality which was NOT announced was actually incorporated into OS 4 including but all directional screen dragging, 32 bit icon support, a new API for overlay support, increased backwards compatibility (HAM mode promotion), a completely new memory subsystem which cuts down on fragmentation dramatically, additional memory protection, additional audio and IDE/SCSI drivers etc. etc.

Having seen how much functionality Microsoft dropped from Vista which it originally announced Hyperion is not alone in revising its priorities in the course of development.

The fact of the matter remains that Amiga OS 4.0 Final would be the object of flaming and negative commentary by the likes of you, no matter it's feature-set and not withstanding the fact that you have never used it.

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@ umisef

Your just showing your ignorance now. SNAP was killed by Scitech, MUI has been in since forever and MooVid has been replaced.

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Micro A1 866 Mhz and AmigaOS 4.1
PowerMac G4 1.4 Ghz and MorphOS 2.7

Quote:

The fact of the matter remains that Amiga OS 4.0 Final would be the object of flaming and negative commentary by the likes of you, no matter it's feature-set and not withstanding the fact that you have never used it.

So you do think that:
Quote:

what (AmigaOne owners) now have is deemed by its creators as having the feature set, level of stability and general overall feel that they are satisfied is marketable

Because that's what my post was about.


OK, I'll ask you to put your money where your mouth is, then. You said
Quote:

The rest of us will enjoy the fact that Amiga OS 4.0 - The Final Update (which is the version that will be used as a master for the CD production) has now been made available.

I am willing to bet you 6 bottles of Moet & Chandon against 6 bottles of Cantillon Rosé de Gambrinus beer that Hyperion won't put out a pressed CD mastered from the ISO image recently made available to AmigaOne owners before the end of 2007. I will even allow for the addition of text files, as well as changes to textual elements such as copyright notices, as well as for bugfixes. However, adding new code or functionality to the CD image would constitute a departure from what you claimed was to be used as the master for CD production, and a change in the feature set that is deemed marketable, and thus any CD thus pressed would not be sufficient for you to win the bet.

Deal?

That would be a foolish wager and I'll got for the six bottles of Moët Chandon. Not my preferred brand but definitely good enough.

The profesionally pressed CD will add more material than is available for download in the form of the localisation catalogs, better font support and a Contribution drawer (which is unmanageable as a download).

Obviously, any issues that come to light in the course of the next few weeks with the current ISO will be addressed if serious enough.

Other than that, there might be an additional, limited surprise here and there but for all intents and purpose what is out now will serve as the baseline for the CD pressing within a few weeks time.

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Quote:

SNAP was killed by Scitech,

Yes, of course. But that still leaves the current OS4 graphics card support in a rather sad state. Do you really expect Hyperion to put an OS into the market that supports pre-X ATI cards, Voodoo cards, and Permedia2 cards?In 2007?

Quote:

MUI has been in since forever

Except it is not the latest version of MUI, as promised in the feature document, now is it? Which means a schism has been created between MUI/OS4 and MUI4, where no schism should have been.

Quote:

MooVid has been replaced.

Is DvPlayer part of OS4 (unlikely, as it isn't included in the "OS4 changes since update 4" page), or is it just included as a contrib, meaning that it is shareware that needs to be paid for if you actually intend to use it for real? Because, you know, MooVid was supposed to be included with OS4.0.

unisef, you quote me, amend the quote and then try to foist it onto someone else. Not a good approach.

I did not say, or mean, AmigaOS owners, but meant Hyperion who developed it. This is silly, please stop it.

Hyperionmp made no such suggestion, nor did I, so why ask if they agree with it.

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Greg Schofield, Perth Australia