Quote:

The profesionally pressed CD will add more material than is available for download in the form of the localisation catalogs, better font support and a Contribution drawer (which is unmanageable as a download).

Quote:

there might be an additional, limited surprise here and there

So what has been distributed now will not actually "be used as a master for the CD production". Thanks for clarifying that --- someone might have misinterpreted your earlier statement. So no bet, I guess?

Now, back to the other question --- what day was OS4.0 completed on?

(BTW, Ben --- when did you start speaking for Hyperion again? I thought you had handed over the reign?)

- A special DVPlayer OEM version was included.

- A port of MUI 4 is in progress but was not ready in time. As it stands, no native or 68K version of MUI require anything beyond 3.9 at this stage.

You may also rest assured that development of OS 4 is still going on by the individual authors of their individual components in response to Bugzilla reports filed by betatesters and third parties alike.

It's not as if the entire OS 4 developer mailing lists (65000 messages to date) was closed down and the same holds for the beta-list.

_________________

Quote:

unisef, you quote me, amend the quote and then try to foist it onto someone else. Not a good approach.

I quoted you, and questioned whether the statement you made could reasonably be thought to make sense --- because I sure don't think OS4.0 in its current form is marketable outside the AmigaOne owners group.

Then Ben piped up and admonished me for saying those things, which seems to imply that he does believe OS4.0 in its current form is marketable outside the AmigaOne owners group. But not being one to rely on implied meaning (especially from Ben), I went and asked "So, do you indeed believe OS4.0 in its current form is marketable outside the AmigaOne owners group" --- and he confirmed that the OS4 that was going to be marketed was going to be different from the OS4 as distributed.

Information was actually gotten from Ben Hermans. Any approach that can achieve that cannot possibly be called a bad approach.

Well, perhaps it´s time to do some nutpicking about Amithlon (R.I.P.) and what was announced for the release (what parts were realized remarkable time after release or never) to get this fruitless discussion to an end...

Greetz

Last edited by whose on 27-Dec-2006 at 04:50 AM.

Hyperion management is not Ben Hermans.

Ben is working for a reputable large Belgian lawfirm since 2003 and no longer involved in day to day management of Hyperion.

_________________

Quote:

Hyperion management is not Ben Hermans. Ben is working for a reputable large Belgian lawfirm since 2003 and no longer involved in day to day management of Hyperion.

So who is posting as "HyperionMP" now? Because I am sure I am not the only one who'd think it was Ben Hermans...

Quote:

Well, perhaps it´s time to do some nutpicking about Amithlon (R.I.P.) and what was announced for the release (what parts were realized remarkable time after release or never) to get this fruitless discussion to an end...

Be my guest. I'd suggest starting a separate thread, though.

However, I readily agree that (a) the thing was priced too high, and that (b) several features promised by VMC were missing. I don't know how you consider that relevant, because (a) was due to H&P, and (b) due to Harald being a lazy, incompetent ####. And yes, I have five year old mails saying those very same things, and screaming for both H&P and Harald to do their beeping job. So I am not sure what you'd try to achieve by it.

@ mr2
Quote:

Yes, change it to There are no HW for OS4

Done before:

_________________
-vortexau, who's A1 XE-G4 remains at half-RAM !
A2000HD (from 1991) 060 64Mb PicassoII with OS3.5 . . . still working.

@umisef:

It´s quite easy to throw stones on others, you see?

There are enough points that speak against you, who is now doing nutpicking on the OS4 Final release and the response of HyperionMP saying that they could take the newest release as a CD master base (seeing the difference here to what you try to imply?).

No meta-discussion about the Amithlon failure will change any of my thoughts about your role in it.

But so what? Amithlon was running, mostly usable and all was easy, even for the customers (I am one of them). It was one of the market rules these days, that announcements were changed "on the fly" if needed by the developers, and nothing has really changed in the meantime, I think.

Suddenly, when Hyperion releases the final OS4 for A1 machines, the rules were turned all around and announcements have to be 100% of formerly shown feature lists? Only because YOU think that this is of highest meaning?

I don´t think so. Many people doing something for Amiga after Commodore´s death didn´t show the professionality they demand from others. This includes Hyperion and even yourself.

Despite that fact, OS4 went final (and your view on this topic isn´t as important as you imply, please get real), has it´s feature set predictions mostly fulfilled, and could be used by the people owning a A1. Time will tell if others can use it in the near future too.

No wording games will change that.

That´s my point. I think you´re a clever guy, but I wonder why you asked for it. You should know it already.

Greetz

Quote:

It was one of the market rules these days, that announcements were changed "on the fly" if needed by the developers, and nothing has really changed in the meantime, I think.

What's the point of "announcements" when they mean nothing? I know that that's what the Amiga scene has become over the last half decade, but be honest --- do you really think the current situation, where any announcement means "well, there is a non-zero chance that this will happen, but hey, don't ever expect us to even acknowledge having made an announcement if it turns out not to happen" is healthy?

If you put down a feature list, sign a contract, and later stress that you are contractually obliged to provide those features, then I'd bloody well expect you to provide those features. Failing to do so is no more acceptable for OS4 than Amithlon.


But regardless, that's not the issue. The issue is that Greg believes OS4.0, as delivered, should be considered "marketable", and I disagree, due to the glaring feature gaps. Those gaps are not a problem because the features were promised and then dropped, they are a problem because important functionality for even a 2001 OS4 is still missing in the dying days of 2006. If you have an opinion on that discourse one way or the other, feel free to share. If you want to discuss Amithlon, I suggest you start a new thread where it is on-topic.

Do you really believe an OS with no support for current gfx cards, no support for USB 2, no support for Firewire, no support for OpenGL, no support for legacy PPC Amiga apps, no support for input devices other than mouse and keyboard and no support for meaningful memory protection is marketable? In 2007? Who in the world to?

Quote:

esponse of HyperionMP saying that they could take the newest release as a CD master base (seeing the difference here to what you try to imply?).

Of course it could be used as a CD master. So could the DVD-R containing my photos of a friend's wedding. It would result in a thoroughly useless batch of pressed CDs, either way. Neither batch would contain an OS marketable to anyone but AmigaOne owners, who already have it.

However, HyperionMP (whoever that is these days...) called it, and I quote
Quote:

the version that will be used as a master for the CD production

See the word "will" there? Well, turns out it won't. Are you now going to berate me because HyperionMP made a straight out wrong statement?

My sincere congratulations to all at Hyperion for seeing this through to the the Final Update. This is absolutely fantastic news. I applaud your resolve and your support of us in the Amiga community.

Truly,
Robert Bernardo
Fresno Commodore User Group
http://videocam.net.au/fcug
The Other Group of Amigoids
http://www.calweb.com/~rabel1/

Quote:

But regardless, that's not the issue. The issue is that Greg believes OS4.0, as delivered, should be considered "marketable", and I disagree, due to the glaring feature gaps.

As it was shown, it is only your believe that there are "glaring feature gaps". As for AmigaInput, which program uses it actually? Some emulators, not necessarily important for the forthcoming of AmigaOS. Right?

OpenGL: Well, there is an intermediate replacement for it. No software is available that would make any use from a full OpenGL implementation so far.

Drivers for Graphics cards: Explained very well by HyperionMP, I think. Somewhat the same situation you where confronted with in Amithlon times.

You're whining about things that you missed to realize yourself. But you won't get tired of showing yourself as the one doing fully professional work all the time and in the past.

Quote:

Those gaps are not a problem because the features were promised and then dropped, they are a problem because important functionality for even a 2001 OS4 is still missing in the dying days of 2006. If you have an opinion on that discourse one way or the other, feel free to share. If you want to discuss Amithlon, I suggest you start a new thread where it is on-topic.[quote] Do you really think, your discussion about wording is really on topic? It's not enough to mention OS4 to be on topic, right? [quote] Do you really believe an OS with no support for current gfx cards, no support for USB 2, no support for Firewire, no support for OpenGL, no support for legacy PPC Amiga apps, no support for input devices other than mouse and keyboard and no support for meaningful memory protection is marketable?

Yes, I believe that. I see that you believe other things, but what do you care about? Go ahead, use the OS that provides all these things and all discussion about wording is gone.

I truly think you try to kick back after several years, when your personal desaster happened, which is not the fault of other people only. You did your own parts to the story and now you try to do this to other who achieved more than you. With the same methods you and your former fellows used.

Quote:

In 2007? Who in the world to?

Wait and see. Trying to sell it to you would be fruitless, even if OS4 would contain all the features you demand. Everybody knows this. But not everybody has your attitude towards OS4 and your wording games will not change this.

BTW. as I said, it is not important what you read from the CD master answer of HyperionMP. I read it somewhat other than you and I strongly believe that most others will think that way, too.

Even if we will take your sight of things, what will be changed? Nothing. The ISO used as master for the A1 version of OS4 will indeed work. There wasn't mentioned another version and it wasn't even mentioned, that the A1 version and CSPPC version had to reside on the same master. I would say, that there will be another master for that purpose. And some updates for the missing features and bugfixes in the future.

Tell me, what do you have won now with your fruitless discussion about the master thing?

Greetz

@corwin

Quote:

Quote: I won't even try to explain it, 'cause I'm pretty sure you did get what I was trying to say, didn't you? Yes, you mean that amigaOS release planning is similar to other professional projects, the problem is that it is not the case.

No, wrong. It seems you didn't get it, after all.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Last edited by Ferry on 27-Dec-2006 at 09:45 AM.

_________________
Amiga user since 1988
AOS4 Betatester
Member of ATO Spain
A1 Cfg
OS4 SCR
A1200

Good news!
Gotta try instralling it today :)

_________________
OS4 on X5000 / Peg2 / mA1

@Hyperionmp

Will those that paid for the pre-release CD be able to buy the professionally produced OS4 final CD at a reduced price?

Also who are you if you are not Ben Hermans ?

_________________
Join the Amigaworld.net Supporters Scheme and get your Supporter Tag

Probably Evert Carton. Check here and you should know him by now because he already talked to us here.

Last edited by elwood on 27-Dec-2006 at 11:14 AM.

_________________
Philippe 'Elwood' Ferrucci
Sam460 1.10 Ghz
AmigaOS 4 betatester
Amiga Translator Organisation

Congratulations Hyperion!



I also got my house finished to a "move in" form. So I'll have some time for a hobby soon. .... ...



So, I'm eagerly waiting for the HW.

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

Quote:

Although I agree with your post, I think the best thing you could do is ignore these people, rather than give them the attention they crave.

Tried that for some months now, didn't work. They keep coming back.

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment

@ falemagn

Quote:

Glad for you. I fail to see, however, how's this even remotely related to my (and not only mine) questions

Your question is off topic, by the way. Would you stop, please ?

_________________
Thomas, the kernel guy

"I don't have a frigging clue. I'm norwegian" -- Ole-Egil

All opinions expressed are my own and do not necessarily represent those of Hyperion Entertainment