Quote:

Oh, btw, Rigo.. I reported you ! You can't just say things like you did.

Come on, Metalheart, calm down and grow up. Oops, did I say just that?

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Don't make this a bigger thing than it really is. Simon is one of many developers of the OS, and you'd have to be incredibly fickle to "stop buying" just because one developer voices his discontent, especially when you know that he has a point.

We know that the OS 4 devs have to put up with a lot of BS, that's one of the reasons why you see them on these forums less and less these days. The way that most threads get derailed into bitching, mudslinging, and negativity can get to anyone.

Rather than getting angry about his bluntness, perhaps think about the message itself instead of the delivery. Ask yourself if you've been responsible for some of the trolling, mudslinging, etc. If not, great; if yes, then, well ... time to grow up.

Hans

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hans: +1

+1 here too...

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+1 lets hope he never takes on an interview again ......keep coding Rigo

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@Hans

OTOH you say here, and I quote, "So while his responses may not be pretty, I'm glad that someone was blunt enough to say what others are thinking.", so obviously you think the same? How many more in the OS4 team want 97% of the userbase to go away?

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Well I guess to the "positive" attitude were getting, we wont be seeing another interview anytime soon.

I for one, thank him for doing an interview at least it gives us some update and news,
ok a bit to the point about it but I kind of glad he did, spend less time doing interviews, more time
coding, in fact what where you thinking given a interview when there coding to be done!

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@zerohero

But Hans wrote that comment at a.org twelve hours before Rigo wrote his 97% comment, hence could not be refering to that, obviously to the interview. Whatever you think of the content I think trying make that connection counts as dirty tricks (or a simple mistake maybe...)

[edit]spelling[/edit]

Last edited by broadblues on 24-Feb-2010 at 10:13 PM.
Last edited by broadblues on 24-Feb-2010 at 10:12 PM.

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@broadblues

While I didn't check the time, Hans also says:

Quote:

Rather than getting angry about his bluntness, perhaps think about the message itself instead of the delivery.

I'd say the message in the interview is pretty much the same...

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@zerohero

Quote:

@Hans OTOH you say here, and I quote, "So while his responses may not be pretty, I'm glad that someone was blunt enough to say what others are thinking.", so obviously you think the same? How many more in the OS4 team want 97% of the userbase to go away?

Hold it right there. You're taking one thing that I said in one place, and then mixing it with something that Simon said somewhere completely different, and then trying to use it against me. Don't do that.

I'm glad that he told people to grow up, and yes, I think that there are people here who need to grow up. I'm also getting tired of all the mud-slinging. I'm tired of having to correct the same FUD over and over again, and I'm tired of having to correct people who twist what I said into something else.

I NEVER said anything about wanting 97% of the userbase to go away. To be honest, I sometimes wonder how many within the larger community actually are part of the userbase, or even potential future users, and how many are just here to fulfil their desire to #### on something.

This post may also sound rather blunt, but don't try to twist this whole thing and turn it on me. I'm still making an effort to be polite.

Hans

P.S. I'm not officially part of the OS4 team, nor do I speak for Hyperion.

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+1 for Hans.

While i don't necessarily share Rigo's bluntness, i can understand where it comes from. It's not good when you see that the favourite sport of the vocal majority here recently has become "talk bulls**t of anything coming from the "red side".
I don't know if it's done on purpose but it's easy for anyone to verify by reading threads from the last months and judge with an open mind.
It's no good to see your work constantly bashed by the same group of people, especially when you know they have no elements to judge.

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@zerohero

Quote:

@broadblues While I didn't check the time, Hans also says: Quote: Rather than getting angry about his bluntness, perhaps think about the message itself instead of the delivery. I'd say the message in the interview is pretty much the same...

Saying "grow up" isn't the same as "go away."

Hans

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@Hans

Quote:

I'm glad that he told people to grow up

Seriously, if I grow up anymore I will have to leave completely. While I have encountered a few very nice people involved (Olaf Barthel, Colin Wenzel and now recently Sebastian Bauer, to name a few that spring to mind) I have been treated like dirt by far more OS4 developers than I have met nice ones. I don't see myself as one of the bad guys, I've been trying to help all this time, but until very recently it's been impossible to get hold of sources, people or whatever is needed. As I said somewhere else, at best I've been ignored. Nice attitude towards your paying customers...

Quote:

Hold it right there. You're taking one thing that I said in one place, and then mixing it with something that Simon said somewhere completely different, and then trying to use it against me. Don't do that.

Honest mistake, actually. Didn't check the timestamps. Still, the message is pretty much the same in the interview...

EDIT: spelling.

Last edited by zerohero on 24-Feb-2010 at 11:54 PM.

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I hope that Rigo will clarify what he said, since I think it is being misread by some people, due to being so terse:

By the 97% comment, I think he meant that the majority of "the community" do not (and will never) contribute towards OS4 in any useful way (*), but rather just seem to exist to whine or slag things off constantly. As they don't (and won't ever) contribute towards OS4, I imagine he thinks we wouldn't be any worse off without them. (* = which I think should include buying (or intending to buy) an OS4 machine.)

I think the 97% figure is a biiiiiit exaggerated, but that's probably what it feels like after reading tens of pages titled along the lines of "X1000 is vapour".


It's certainly an unnecessarily harsh way to put it, and it could have been stated much better, but I have to agree with Hans that there is some truth in it (albiet rather exaggerated - I guess Rigo was having a bad day).

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@Hans +1


Oh come on. Give Rigo some slack. He is obviously saying things in heat. Like none of you ever said something similar in your life, in anger, but somehow everyone expects OS4 developers to be super-humans who are able to rise above every situation.

I didn't feel pleasant while I was reading the interview, but I do understand how things led to his attitude in that interview. Is it professional? No. But don't try to judge someone before you had a chance to walk in his shoes.

About that 97% figure, if he really thought like that he probably wouldn't be here. At least I think so. The truth is that a minority of members here are constantly spreading negative, not constructive, comments and even I am fed up with it, and I have been known as very calm and steady person.

So please, I beg you everyone, take one step back, and calm down. We have a great year to look forward to, the most prospective year since the demise of Commodore. Lets not ruin it with all the bickering and negativity.

This is just my opinion. You are all adults and of course are free to act as you see fit.

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Looks like some buttons have been pushed.

What I have found interesting in this discussion so far is that some people really do care about the people that build the products they purchase. We hear a lot of "I don't care about the brand name" or "I don't care if it is made by X" and will buy products based solely on the product's fit for purpose. With the Amiga crowd, there seems to be a strong tendency to buy products based precisely on where it came from and who built it. There does seem to be a lot of emotion mixed up in the purchase decision.

So given the high amount of emotional content in the buying decision, it seems to me that Hyperion, A-Cube, A-EON, etc. would be best served by finding representatives to speak for those companies on a regular basis. The way things are now, potential customers are assuming somebody like Rigo or even myself speak for the product team and/or company when in fact that is simply not the case. The lack of proper representation must be hurting sales given all the emotional reactions to the interview seen here.

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@ssolie

Quote:

So given the high amount of emotional content in the buying decision, it seems to me that Hyperion, A-Cube, A-EON, etc. would be best served by finding representatives to speak for those companies on a regular basis. The way things are now, potential customers are assuming somebody like Rigo or even myself speak for the product team and/or company when in fact that is simply not the case. The lack of proper representation must be hurting sales given all the emotional reactions to the interview seen here.

Yes, but it's not just "speaking" that solves the problem. It's about speaking in the proper place, where the words won't get lost.

I have reminded Trevor of the "Developer Projects Forum" and of its purpose here on AW.
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=21443&forum=42&14
I feel his response was positive.

I still firmly believe that Hyperion would be well served to consider this forum as well.

#6

Last edited by number6 on 24-Feb-2010 at 11:23 PM.

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This posting, in its entirety, represents solely the perspective of the author.
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Quote:

Oh come on. Give Rigo some slack. He is obviously saying things in heat. Like none of you ever said something similar in your life, in anger, but somehow everyone expects OS4 developers to be super-humans who are able to rise above every situation. I didn't feel pleasant while I was reading the interview, but I do understand how things led to his attitude in that interview. Is it professional? No. But don't try to judge someone before you had a chance to walk in his shoes.

I agree people shouldn't get too upset about this, it's just one developer speaking who may have been having a bad day (or was just sick of the X1000 vaporware threads).

I think the moral of the story is the developers make bad PR representatives ;)

Quote:

I think the moral of the story is the developers make bad PR representatives ;)

And yet here we are ten years on and it has occurred to exactly nobody to get someone who doesn't have utter ####ing contempt for the last desperate few Amiga users left to go out and put a smiling face on their team(s).

I mean, you've got DFX who blamed their...weird...attitude about "Amzilla" on the Moobunny forums for christ's sake, Hyperion who crunch into the heads of those who dare question the Shining Path* like they're delicious Braeburn apples resting comfortably at the bottom of the brown lunch-sack after a particularly appetizing ham sandwich, aaaaaand now I guess everyone has to be ####ed on by this guy and cheer like it's koolade, oh yeah?

Look, nobody pretends that a shut-in who spends eight hours a day screaming at lines of code on the screen is going to also be Dale Carnegie, but it's obvious that Roy Rogers never met the remainder of the Amiga development community. I don't expect lollipops and sunshine but there's an old saying about not being able to say something nice...?


*=the direction Amiga OS4 goes; I have no knowledge as to whether or not Hyperion is staffed by Maoist fundamentalists.

Last edited by TheDungeonDelver on 25-Feb-2010 at 02:03 AM.

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wow..why is it that there's all this drama here on almost any thread that relates to OS4.x ....a buddy of mine who is interested in the X1000 afetr being away from the Amiga scene for years told me he visited this site once and only 'once'...can't blame him

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