Thanks Mike. That was the best (most detailed) report of the OS4 on tour I've read yet.

Thanks Mike, a very nice report.

One thing does concern me..... I thought the Petunia JIT was already ment to be implimented or on the verge of implimented for some time....anyone know why its not up and running yet?

CnlPepper - Hoping a UK tour date will appear....

4.0 for the AOne towards the end of the year (Hey Ben Yoris, seems your guess was correct) .. when I ordered my AOne G4 for more than 6 months ago I expected to upgrade the CPU module to something faster than 800Mhz by the end of 2003, with using 4.0 for atleast half a year before upgrading, if not more. And now it seems I won't even use it at all before the end of 2003, one year later. Linux PPC doesn't interest me one bit, I already have linux x86 on an Intel box. Perhaps I should have gotten the G3 instead. As it is now I'm paying a lot extra for a G4 just to let it waste space in a closet. And on top of that, who knows when I'll get my AOne anyway, might as well be 6 months more.

Things sure move slowly in this Amiga world. I would have though I had gotten used to it by now.

Anyway, things are as they are, nothing much to do about it.. people are working their asses off to get these things out as it is.

The sad thing is that for each month that passes without 4.0 on the AOne the MOS camp will win more and more ground. With pegasos 2 to be released, lower hardware prices and an OS already ready to be run on it.. beta or not. People want product, and a lot of them go where they can find it.

(Btw, Great show report, interesting read)

/Björn, rather depressed about this.

Quote:

/Björn, rather depressed about this.

Likewise .

-edit-

Oh well, what is a few more months wait compared to a 10 year wait .

Cheers

@ CnlPepper

Try to read what Ben Hermans wrote @ amiga.org

_________________
Best regards,
hnl_dk - Henning Nielsen Lund [Denmark]

Please send no PM to me, email me if you want to contact me. See you somewhere else.

That's a bit of a negative assessment of the situation really.

Especially this part:

"The sad thing is that for each month that passes without 4.0 on the AOne the MOS camp will win more and more ground. With pegasos 2 to be released, lower hardware prices and an OS already ready to be run on it.. beta or not. People want product, and a lot of them go where they can find it."

The fact of the matter is that only 600 units of the Pegasos I were ever produced, many of which were given away for free and even now there is a still a "blow-out" sale going on at rock-bottom prices.

Many dealers still have stock. It really isn't selling very well despite being cheaper.

_________________

@Hyperionmp

Well, agreeing or not about that, if removing that part, what would your comment be specifically?

/Björn, still depressed.

@Orgin

I'm sad to say I share your sentiment. If the first
presentation of AOS4 is in October it is (given the time
passed between first showing of the Cyberstorm version
and its scheduled release sometime at the end of summer)
not difficult to imagine an AOS4 release not until
this christmas*. Now I have no problem toying with
LinuxPPC for a while but for six bloody months ... !
I have a Linux box already.

... I just don't know. I just don't know.


*) Note that I have no inside knowledge whatsoever and
are therefore only guessing. Let's hope it's released soon
after the Cyberstorm version.
.
SlimJim

@HyperionMP

Please stop using the Pegasos situation (or non-situation
depending on who you ask) as some sort of marketing
leverage. I have asked Mr. Buck many times not to
comment on the Triarchy's products, I ask you the same
(and the fact that Mr. Buck is slipping quite often in this
regard is no excuse - are we children here; like "he did it
first!"?).
It's not helping this bubbling cauldron of irritation, heated
by the fiery logs of expectation and anticipation that we call
the Amiga community. Not to mention that the argument is
rather void. I'd say the selling of Pegasos/MOS really has
none or little impact on the decision of buying AOS4 for
many, if not most, of us.

Defend your product by all means. But leave the
competition out of it. You have a great product to sell (just
look at the signs of anticipation around here!). Make sure
you sell it white and shiny. If you throw mud at the
competitor (and I don't care if it's well-founded mud or not,
it's still bad style) you might just drop some of it on your
own product. Mr. Buck already lost many potential
customers due to this practice (although many of those
were quite lost already from the beginning, it can be
argued). Don't make the same mistake.

Now, if you look around, you'll find I have said similar things
to Mr. Buck in the past, so don't feel singled out.


... How I'd love to be just a naïve computer enthusiast
again, and not a foot-soldier in a war with loosers on all
sides.
.
SlimJim (with a sigh)

@Orgin & SlimJim:

I feel the same. After supporting Hyperion for a long time, i came to the same conclusion really. We have been told that 'the hardest part is over now' or 'we're finishing it up as we speak' for too many times. I don't believe it anymore.

And talking about the competition is indeed very weak. They are at version 1.4 soon and new hardware coming. And from those guys, i actually believe they will deliver on time.

Moreover, it seems that not a lot of people are that impressed by the OS4 on tour demonstration, judging by the reactions, or lack of.

I was amazed to read that Petunia was not integrated yet?? And all modules being 68k...

My estimate: a very late september release for Cyberstorm and no AOne in 2003.

Too negative? Realistic, i'd say.

Time will tell.

(as i haven't bought an A1 yet, maybe i'll buy a PegII in september. Who knows...)

I guess I would be better of cancelling the G4 order and wait 6 months for the price to drop/or for a faster cpu and for the release of 4.0.

Paying more today for a linux box that I won't use for another 6 months seems just plain stupid.


Problem is, if I order an AOne when 4.0 is out, I'll have to wait another 6 months to get the hardware, ahh the dilemma. Perhaps If I cancelled it today and ordered a new one a phonecall later then they'll arrive at the same time.


/Björn

Hey Orgin,

Cheer up! I agree the wait seems so long, especially with the thought of hardware with only Linux to run. But as you said Hyperion can only go so fast.

As soon as the classic ppc version is out I will personally breathe a sigh of relief, the A1 version will then be on its way.

In the meantime I look forward to the remainder of the OS4 tour to see how the situation progresses. Let us know what you do about getting an A1.

Bean.

A1G4 : apt-get install OS4.0!

_________________
OS4.1 + SAM Flex
RIP my A1XE.. that used to have an appetite for batteries!

@Z5,

Well I've personally been impressed at what I've seen. I don't believe the remaining 68K modules will cause Hyperion too much of a problem recompiling them for PPC. And don't forget that ExecSG boots and emulates the 68K even if the JIT module hasn't been added yet.

IMHO: I feel they have come a long way, especially when you consider that they had to put a BIOS (UBoot) together which they didn't plan in doing in the first place.

Still must agree with SlimJim, lets leave the competitors out of it. I believe that the people who want OS4.0 are not interested in the competition either. It either OS4.0 or something completely different! - ....and I'm putting my money on OS4.0

Bean.

_________________
OS4.1 + SAM Flex
RIP my A1XE.. that used to have an appetite for batteries!

@slimjim

Unfair.

I don't know how the Pegasos situation ( or non situation ) could be a no go area for Ben when it was brought up as part of Orgin's original analysis.

Same way I can understand it when Bill Buck responds in similar vein when someone drags Pegasos into a thread and compares it with A1. Although I could do with less of the .... erm.... craziness and BS.

Initiating the discussion with "hey well at least we are doing better than competitor x" would indeed be crass.

The point is that where the rubber meets the road ( hard sales to end users ) the Pegasos has *sold* far less than 600 units. Therefore both competitors in the marketplace have "bad news" ( despite positive spin ) as far as their customer base goes.

Ergo the grass is not greener on the other side however a whole bunch of people are getting impatient and lots of money on their credit cards and in their accounts looks attractive as a downpayment on a PC right now

@Miffy

Just to clear something up though. I wouldn't buy a Pegasos even if my life depended on it. So it had nothing to do with me jumping platform, the grass is no way near green on that side of the fence to me. (Not saying that you interpreteted me anyway different, just wanted to make it clear)

I just think that the delay is hurting the triarchy more and more for each month that passes. Not just the delay itself but by the cake being eaten up piece by piece by another party. And that I understand that the delay is there and that there isn't much that can be done about it.

/Björn
-edit- Yeah, still depressed.

@Orgin

I don't have a problem with depressing analysis of the situation.

I am hoping that Eyetech will encourage Mai to release another Teron update before the end of this year to stay competitive on the hardware front. Otherwise this is going to be VERY tough to develop the userbase ready for the next market target.

In fact Im signed up to deliver a business plan that is looking more and more unlikely to get selected for investment as time bleeds on. So I share your view.

> I just think that the delay is hurting the
> triarchy more and more for each month that
> passes.

Actually, those are not delays : developing an OS takes time : it was obvious from the beginning.

Hyperion was definitely not honest about that (I have this video on my HD where Ben H says 4/5 times that OS4 would be released in feb 2002 - the Virtual Dimensions one, the ones who recently made an Aachen video report)

Well, I don't know if this was on purpose. And I'm sure such things happened in all companies.

> Not just the delay itself but by the cake being
> eaten up piece by piece by another party

Well, what counts is what the users will get in the end. I don't care if it's called MOS or OS4 personnally but try to consider the quality of the products :)

I'm a MOS user but I hope OS4 will be released, especially because many would leave the amiga scene if there was only MOS left. I'm sure as soon as OS4 is ready for A1, there will be 3 times as many A1 users than Peg users (considering there are currently 2 peg MOS users for 1 A1 Linux user, which is really a shame !)


But like everyone I hate this situation of community split. May the best system win :) - which never happens.

Anyway, from the beginning, this situation is pathetic, ridiculous. 2 similar OS'es for a tiny community. What a waste !! The OS4 and MOS team could have worked together, if AInc had not been there.

@ Miffy

No it's not unfair.

I have no problem with people defending their product.
But - If we take Mr. Buck as an example - it is a world of
difference between him defending the Pegasos with "what
you are saying is untrue, because [technical
explanation/whatever]..." and "But the AmigaOne is much
much worse!" One of the comments defend the product on
its own merit (assuming the reasons in bracket are are
valid of course) and the other one is ... something else.
Mr. Buck has used this rhetoric many times, but lately he
has improved (or I have paid less attention).

I might agree that this latest post by Ben wasn't as
uncalled for as some other, but it is serving as an example.
The pattern of constantly referring to "the
other" side when defending your own product is emerging
now and then, and in this inflammatory community, that's
not doing anyone any good.

And no, unless Pegasos is running AOS4, I'm not
considering it. As I said, the Pegasos is a void argument in
most AOS4 discussions as it stands today. Talking it down
and bringing it into the fray is pointless. Just as little as
AOne need to be discussed in threads about MorphOS.
.
SlimJim

@SlimJim

I would agree with you if Ben had brought it into the thread, but he was following up to a comparison with the competition:

Quote:

The sad thing is that for each month that passes without 4.0 on the AOne the MOS camp will win more and more ground. With pegasos 2 to be released, lower hardware prices and an OS already ready to be run on it.. beta or not. People want product, and a lot of them go where they can find it.

...and answered with

Quote:

The fact of the matter is that only 600 units of the Pegasos I were ever produced, many of which were given away for free and even now there is a still a "blow-out" sale going on at rock-bottom prices. Many dealers still have stock. It really isn't selling very well despite being cheaper.

Which to me seems quite on topic. It is pointing out that even with the money off deals that Genesi has been offering ( through Phoenix, to prominent and vocal members of the community, and now this stock clearance sale ) that a "cheaper" and "more complete" product just isn't making significant inroads.

Whether that will change with the as yet vapourware Pegasos II or not is yet to be seen.

So I still think you are being unfair on Ben here.

Miffy : I don't think it's something even a pro OS4 and anti MOS person (I didn't say it was your case !!!) could be happy about : it just means that the Amiga Market is so ridiculously small, that a viable competitor can't even sell his <100 last machines even when making smaller prices (and with a great update offer).

This is very worrying for both "sides" or I would rather say "competitors" because we just are potential customers and not making a war :)

Of course we could argue everyone waits for OS4 to be released, which is understandable, in order to compare both products.