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I agree with the overall consensus on the look of the screenshots, let's just say they don't look the best to me, not very professional.

Overall consensus? So far, a handful of people have complained, not exactly a majority.

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I've never liked the new icons provided with OS4 anyway, the majority are too pasty, too pillowed and blurry and not really up to scratch... but then again, it's all configurable so if you don't like the default look then you can change it.

I could actually never stand the "Crystal" look in KDE, I always thought it looked plastic and cheap. It seems though that a lot of people liked it. The problem is you cannot make any style that pleases everyone.

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now where did that massimo graphics dude go.....he made some serious great looking things

You mean Massimo Tantignone? He actually did the changes to Intuition.

I remember when the first screens of his MT theme were available, people said things like "why do all coders have to be color-blind?"

Go figure.

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Dont mentation the crystal look ;) didnt like it but seems some folks love it.

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Maybe there are not enough applications to use so people enjoy customizing OS instead. Maybe the default look is really so bad that users can't stand it?

Yeah, right. Congratulations, your comments just convinced me that there is no point in continuing this discussion. If you have to resort to such nonsense, you seem to be out of arguments anyway.

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@Rogue and everyone onboard(dev's/testers/translators etc).

Everytime there is a new update or news about OS4 is more than just happy times.

Keep up the exellent work, highly appriciated.


@Mason

the only thing i would say is that i like the look but not the left ticker/gadget) position (closing windows) although i am sure theese things grow on you anyway, just like the OS4.0 theme did.

it felt odd at first but then over time it just felt right (although adjustments had been done to it over that time too).

I like your style but as always there will always be people who doesn't approve etc, tweaks and changes is always needed.

Keep up the exellent work, highly appriciated.

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@Rogue

Good point in underlining the feature list. Yes, i believe it would have been on the feature list. It might come later...

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@OldFart

JXFS is all new. It is, to date, the fastest filesystem you can get on the Amiga, has full 64 bit support, and I really don't know what the name is an acronym for.

As for workbench functionality, one of the things are the new listers for text mode.

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@Rogue

The JXFS-filesystem sounds outstanding! If we thought shooting a bullet out of a gun was fast, than i'm sure this filesystem will be faster still!

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I was SO impressed by this annoucement that i had to show it off to an old Amiga-friend whom is now a PC-lover. The reaction he gave simply just underlined the proof that Amiga is far from dead. He walked away a bit furious and left no comments..

That was funny...

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@NutsAboutAmiga You cannot use the 66 MHz and AGP slot at the same time. I think there were more lines swapped with the fix. I never got around to checking it.

AGP and PCI-66 MHz worked with first ubott happily, but after update of uboot, it just stopped. Mine is unfixed SE.

Have to sasy, that I don't have any pain with OS4 theme

Overall seems to be, that decicions to os4.1 are future wise, good job.

I think Hyperion should charge for this update. It looks like it has all the features now and Hyperion deserves some revenue from OS4. I'd be willing to pay a moderate amount.

As for the out-of-box look of OS4, I don't understand the discussion. I have never changed the look of OS4 or Windows Vista other than background pictures. I'm just not interested. The way I see it, there are two ways to go: Create a look that offends the least number of people, or create something so flashy that it blows everyone away, even though it might be disliked by many more people. To get attention from the Mac / Windows set, it might be cool to do something really wild. OS4 seems to have that capability now -- window compositing, transparent toolbar, etc -- maybe a futuristic Jetsons theme, which I'm sure lots of people would hate, but it would get attention.

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I would say that AmigaOS 4.1 would be well worth the money it will cost. Hyperion deserves them :)

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@Rogue

Could you please explain me/us what exactly is and how it works the composition engine ?

Thanks

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@Rogue:

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I am not looking at MacOS X here. I was merely stating that the argument that all windows corners have to be round is obviously of no concern to MacOS X, and the MacOS X style seems to be very popular, so that invalidates the argument of symmetry.

And because you're not looking at MacOSX you're sure that it is sufficient to do not more than MacOSX designers did because MacOSX is very popular

You see the point? It should be of no concern for AmigaOS, if any other OS designers see non-rounded lower window borders as sufficient or not. You named it, GUI design is something that will be recognized by the public and every design that differs to the "mainstream" will be recognized better, even more the more sophisticated a particular GUI design is. So, you were asked for real free window shape or at least rounded borders at the bottom. Where's the problem? If it is a too difficult task, I would think that people wouldn't bother you with it anymore, if you just say so.

I don't wanna argue about your work, but I wanna argue about the habit of ignoring user's critics by simply wipe them away by comparing it with the flaws some (non) competitors have in their design, just because they are popular. I think you should use the creativity of all your users to enhance the GUI designs (they and you appreciate Mason's work nonetheless!), but for that to happen you have to give them the options to do so. Let them do some work and see, what evolves from it. I bet there would be a lot of real great designs evolving from this work, really unique to AmigaOS and actually better than the "popular" designs. Don't underestimate the design abilities of people without a design diploma. I know some of them and they are indeed doing great work in design, sometimes a lot better as people with a Master's degree in idustrial design.

One could think that you don't dare to do anything revolutionary in general OS design, for whatever reason. If it is so, be assured, that you shouldn't fear to implement real revolutionary things, if you can. There is no law that states that AmigaOS has to do all things like MacOSX, Linux or Windows do, you have all the freedom you need to do things that differ from these three, just use it!

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Like what features?

Alpha channel blitting is the simplest one... BltBitMapRastPortTags() or something like this? This function is not in the latest public SDK includes. The changed dos.library functions are candidates, too.

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But yes, work on an SDK update is ongoing, as a matter of fact we have a new maintainer for it now (but I leave it to him to say anything).

That's great. Can't await to explore the new SDK and the new 4.1 features Thank you very much!

Regards

Edit: mispelling and typos

Last edited by whose on 13-Jul-2008 at 03:17 PM.
Last edited by whose on 13-Jul-2008 at 03:13 PM.

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You think the ability to make WB look like anything you want a flaw?

Proponents of this argument seem to forget that there are two requirements (at least) for someone to be able "to make XXX look like [what they] want". One is the configurability of XXX. The other is for that "someone" to be able to *do* the configuring.

By analogy --- everyone knows whether they like a particular piece of music or not. But of those who do not like, say, Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D minor, many are incapable of actually writing music themselves they'd like better. Fortunately, for music fans, there are other artists out there who release their stuff in a compatible format; So if you like the Brubeck Quartett better than Bach, fine, buy Brubeck. If you like Vangelis' Conquest of Paradise better, buy that. And if you like Nirvana --- well, you get the drift. But very very few people could actively write music they themselves would like better than the best-liked one of those options.

Unfortunately, AmigaOS does not feature a wide range of easily available looks. It comes with a standard look, and after a while, there may be a few themes on OS4depot. However, nothing like the selection of music available at the local store; Nothing remotely like the selection of themes available for my hacked iPod Touch, either.
So, if I were an OS 4.1 user, I'd hate certain aspects of the GUI look as seen in those screenshots. I'd also, in addition, have a certain feeling of "something is missing" relative to my OS-X laptop, with no clear idea *what* is missing. And me being me, I would be completely incapable of improving even the aspects I *know* I dislike, because, well, anything even remotely GUI related is something I suck at[1]. Let alone the stuff that is so subtle that it is subconscious[2]. Whenever I try, the results are rather, uhm, worse than what I aimed to "improve".

So yes, the argument of "you can't please everyone" is perfectly valid; The "and everyone can change it to their liking" one, however, is a fallacy.



[1]: To such a degree that I actually stress that deficiency during job interviews, lest someone hire me with thoughts of GUIs and make us both unhappy.
[2]: It took me several months to realise what I (born and raised in Germany) felt as "wrong" in Australian homes I visited --- it was the general absence of bookshelves, which "back home" are so much a part of the furniture (har, har) that one never even notices them...

changing the look back to 4.0 should not be problem, GUI prefs is easy to use,
its more a question of what should be default look of AmigaOS4.1

Last edited by NutsAboutAmiga on 13-Jul-2008 at 10:36 PM.

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@NutsAboutAmiga

How can I do this fix?

I don't have any IDE controller except the via686b chip.

Can you explain me a bit?

I am really interested and needed of help to restart my internet connection.

Last edited by newlight on 13-Jul-2008 at 06:10 PM.

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@CodeSmith
Quote:

Sounds nice! I'd pretty much completely given up hope on the possibility of any good news. Now all we need is for the court case to get resolved so that new hardware can be sold, and we can finally get on with stopping the bleeding.

theres a few people here saying this...

so lets assume Ainc win which is the most likely scenario...

what now? its a maybe at best for new hardware being licensed...we do need the court case to end but if Ainc win (whether they are entitled to win or not is irrelevant) it doesn't mean Ainc will give us what we want...it mite go the other way....and with all thats happened, its reasonable to say that amiga themselves have been the barrier to new hardware...you could also say that amiga is a shady operation, with its actual goal being some form of financial fraud...

the day Ainc finally goes bust or bill sells out...i will open a big bottle of champagne, celebrate and dream about the possibilities for the future...until then, all i can think about is how Ainc is going to win the court case and we get nothing but more "announcements".

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Quote:

Proponents of this argument seem to forget that there are two requirements (at least) for someone to be able "to make XXX look like [what they] want". One is the configurability of XXX. The other is for that "someone" to be able to *do* the configuring.

I'm no gui expert, but we all do simple changes like the WB background & font changes. I have made little changes over time & they all add up, some spend days playing with the settings until they get what they want. I've checked every theme on os4 depot & found none that I like enough to use. I'm sure most ppl would not like my WB. The os4 WB is a living dynamic work of art, never static. If there is a "problem", its the overwhelming combination of settings that can be made. Some will dig in & really learn it, others will make changes a little at a time, & still others will live with theme's made by others.

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Great news, I wasn't expecting so many new features this soon. I'll find especially the PTP protocol implementation handy, I have recently got a camera which supports only that protocol.

Varthall

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