Quote:

AmigaOS 3.x is obsolete, you can't develop Firefox decenty on it ...

There's no technical limitation that prevents that. AmigaOS4 is as "obsolete" in computing terms as AmigaOS3.x (no memory protection, no 64bit addressing, no SMP support, no multiuser...). Firefox runs even on the ancient RiscOS.

Quote:

Did you see Microsoft develop modern apps on Windows 95 ?

I don't see them developing apps for OSes without memory protection either.

@itix

Quote:

The crowd is already talking why they have not ported it to AROS/Classic AmigaOS/MorphOS when there actually is not functional browser.

The crowd is talking about releasing the sources, no one is forcing them to release MorphOS binaries.

@NutsAboutAmiga

Quote:

I have not seen any A1200 whit more then 128mb ram. and 2MB chip for gfx.

I have used A1200 060 with 256MB and A4000 with nearly 300MB of ram. You can fit easily 1.5GB of ram to an Amithlon system (try that on a microA1). Together with AfA you can enjoy a system almost as "advanced" as AmigaOS4.x for a fraction of the price.

Since you are a programmer I don't know why you think that A1200 users are restricted to 2MB for graphics Don't you know you just need ram to show the current screen? I can copy data to the screen at any moment, regarless of using a Radeon9250, a Voodoo3 or AGA. Or do you need 700MB of gfx ram to play a video too? don't make me laugh.

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it’s not even possible under emulation to support more the 2Gbyes physical ram.

Of course, just like it's not possible on OS4 to use more than a total of 1.8GB of ram (regardless of how much you set for you swap partition).

@Cyborg

Quote:

I'm seeing more and more people who donated to AmiZilla for an OS4 port want to get their money transferred to Timberwolf.. or at least really ponder about that idea.

The idea of Amizilla is not obstructing the other ports avoiding the release of your sourcecode.

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I'm personally very glad that I never donated for AmiZilla (exactly because its unrealistic terms and conditions)

Unrealistic for continuing red vs blue wars trying to delay the release of Firefox for other platforms?

@kas1e

Quote:

And Hyperion the only one company who make somethink real.

not sure about that... they were also going to release Blender, Real3D... and also some OS4 features like auto stack enlargement

@afxfgroups

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And now it is time to move from ANCIENT THINGS...

The irony... saying that on a forum about a platform designed 25 years ago that lacks memory protection, multiuser, autostack enlargement, 64bit addressing, SMP support and that is sold for sub ghz computers

There's no technical problem about an OS3 port of Firefox.

Last edited by Crumb on 01-Oct-2009 at 01:24 PM.

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

Quote:

in general it should be possible for donators to move their money to another bounty after the deadline has expired. otherwise it remains only dead money on some bank account. thats for sure.

Well, this is a good idea but the Amizilla bounty has some problems:

- there was never a deadline.
- after that long time it will be hard to idendify the donators

If possible DiscreteFX should set up a deadline and pay back the money.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

Quote:

after that long time it will be hard to idendify the donators

Well if donators can not be identified - just donate 25% of their donation to TIMBERWOLF and leave the remaining 75% to the other flavours.

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Maintainer of www.bigbookofamigahardware.com

@Crumb

The way I see it as an outsider is that OS4.x is like a nephew watching his dead grand father, yes they share a godzillion bad traits and yet, one is poised to grow and become an adult (or at least it has potential to do it) the other is Dead forever.
So what you say may be true, but while it will always be true for OS3.x it might change in the future for OS4.X.
3.x and 4.x users are not in the same boat as there is a BIG difference between something that will no longer be further developed with something that is in active development right now (my two cents).

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@Cyborg

Quote:

You must be kidding, right? Why the hell should now all of a sudden come something out of AmiZilla which didn't produce anything in 7 years?

To claim money before it is too late? Maybe there is somebody who wasnt motivated enough but realizes there is now the last chance.

If you disagree why have OS4 bounty at all. Just give all money to Friedens now. In your mind you are not leaving an option for a failure or delay. Maybe there is just that Hyperion gets great deal and Friedens must go to port OS4 to new HW and FF project is infinitely postponed.

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

Quote:

When we will have Firefox on OS4 OWB will be history because FF is now one of the most used browser in the world (and all MODERN platforms have it).

Isn't Chrome based on the same code OWB is? What makes FF that much greater the Chrome? I almost don't use FF nowadays, Chrome feels much faster.

_________________
Indigo 3D Lounge, my second home.
The Illusion of Choice | Am*ga

@Ikir
It seems that you don't lke Firefox too mutch
Firefox is more than just a "simple" browser, it contains a lot of new techology like XUL and other things that one day can be the base for the future OS4's development, also is a standard for the web now, not to mention that it is a complete browser so ther's no need to develop a new GUI from scratch like OWB

OWB it's great too but it is only a core, aniway having both would be the best solution, so why not ?

@Dax

That true, OWB to be 100% usable needs only a better UI interrface

_________________
BACK FOR THE FUTURE

http://www.betatesting.it/backforthefuture

Sam440ep Flex 800 Mhz 1 GB Ram + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6
AmigaOne XE G3 800 Mhz - 640 MB Ram - Radeon 9200 SE + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 6

@Rogue

Quote:

Quote: What if Amizilla project delivers a port before Frieden bros? That hasn't happened in years now, and I am sorry to say, but if all that is motivation here is hatred and contempt for anything related to AmigaOS 4.x, I can only say one thing: I pity you.

I admit I put my words bluntly ("bros" part). But users dont seem to understand there could be reasons why porting projects could be delayed. I never cared about Amizilla project but I dont see why the door should be closed from it. Discussing Amizilla funding is relevant when OS4 FF project is getting closer to its completion but certain users seems to think they were using FF port yesterday.

Reminds me about OpenOffice project where you had more icon painters and so called "beta testers" than coders.

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Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@ itix

Sorry, but if someone would be that far already with an FF port and did not bother to communicate its status to the people in 7 years, then its really only his/their own fault that nobody can believe in any result anymore.

The brothers for sure wouldn't even have started their FF port if there would be ANYTHING on the horizon within AmiZilla.

_________________
Regards, Cyborg.
AmigaOS4 development team member

"In the beginning was CAOS.."
-- Andy Finkel, 1988 (ViewPort article, Oct. 1993)

@itix

Quote:

To claim money before it is too late? Maybe there is somebody who wasnt motivated enough but realizes there is now the last chance.

How could it be too late if there isn't a deadline
On the other hand, as someone said earlier (i think it was Georg) maybe this news will serve as motivation to bring forth other ports which, as i see it, is a positive "side effect".

@pixie
Quote:

Isn't Chrome based on the same code OWB is? What makes FF that much greater the Chrome? I almost don't use FF nowadays, Chrome feels much faster.

I've already expressed my POV on this in another post, which got buried in the thread... to me it isn't the browser itself but the number of extensions - some of which are invaluable for a developer - and the "utilities" that come with it, especially XULRunner and Spider/TraceMonkey. XULRunner could enable the port of other things from the easier like Flickr Uploadr to complex ones like Komodo.
Chrome used to have two advantages: threading and V8 engine and that's why it feels faster. The first is yet to be seen for how long it will give such a big advantage, the second is already matched with later releases of SpiderMonkey.
Of course there is the name "Google" and a lot of people use it just for that. Myself i'm not a big fan of Google f.ex. when talking about privacy.

_________________
Proud Amigan since 1987
Owner of various Commodore and a SAM440ep\OS4.1FE
See them on http://retro.furinkan.org/

@Cyborg

Quote:

Sorry, but if someone would be that far already with an FF port and did not bother to communicate its status to the people in 7 years, then its really only his/their own fault that nobody can believe in any result anymore. The brothers for sure wouldn't even have started their FF port if there would be ANYTHING on the horizon within AmiZilla.

So, why not pay bounty money in advance? Can you imagine any reason why bounty money should not be paid in advance?

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@DAX
>That's it I think, "Potential" of going anywhere near modernity, >something OS 4.1 and above will attempt, and that 3.x 68k cannot.
>No hopes for further modern developments=dead retrosystem

there is also AROS, and as you know, AROS can run on any CPU.

windows or mac for example introduce their memprotect API (win 95) long time ago so devs can write apps that run on future OS Versions with full memprotect.so devs can step by step change there apps.

But when you look on OS4, there is near nothing done in the past 5 years that give any hope OS4 get full mem protect.

ok, seem you believe the announcements, but really what potential it have, when they Port to new Hardware (SAM take now over 1 Yearto final) and have since 3 months a bad memloss Bug in, (no fixes since week)

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=29561&forum=33

does not most developer outside OS4 think this guys are very untalentet and because a not so good coder need more time, they need much money to realize a feature ?

if its opensurce, then the problems are since long time fix ?

i think when the friedens release the firefox source(when they give it up before OWB come) then other come and get it working.

I for example have problems to get C++ programs compile, this cost me lots time, but when a program complete compile, i can easy find with the good 68k dev tools a bug.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 01-Oct-2009 at 03:05 PM.

@all_smart_enough_ppls

For me looks strange, that some of you try to say and not only one time your opinions. Just let's everyone have their ones and die with that :) No problems at all. As you can see, some of us are really insane and slowly going into madness with all that ancient (and not so) computer related crap. But that is amiga world, not so many ppls in more or less clear mind :) So, Cyborg, Friedens, etc. Just do what you do and let's everyone do what the do. The time will tell and show everythink. Only what i want to say: everybody in more or less "clear" mind understand that your works are good and need for os4 users.

@to_ppls_who_start_boring_talks_about_68k

Bounty say: aos4.1 only. Bounty on bounty site related to OS4. Ppls write in description - os4 only. So, what all of you try to say ? That you dislike that os3 port never happenes ? You still want to be a freak and jerky on assembler after that 20 years ? Well, let's be, but not need so hardly annoy ppls who still do somethink what they want and in time which they can spend on ####ing womans/wifes, but they spend it on computers.

ps. 2379.55 EUR Out of 2483.9 EUR originally submitted.

_________________
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zerohero's mirror of os4/os3 crosscompiler suites

@bernd-afa
Quote:

>Are the APIs ancient in respect to other mainstream APIs? >I guess so, I'm not expert in this, I read that it lacks some key features. Yes and thats the Main reason wy there is no full memory protect in any AOS system.And until that, the amiga users sit in same boat, the boat of no memory protext

That's because, for you, the lack of memory protection is one of the most important thing missing in OS4, so that it makes it ancient. For me, it's not, there are other things that I value in OS4 that doesn't make it "ancient", so you can't really put me (and others too) in the same boat as you. We have different priorities when judging the qualities in AmigaOS.

Quote:

maybe its a greater risc to use firefox on AOS than OWB.because if a Virus use a Firefox Java security hole, then maybe more bad things can happen on AOS.

I'd say that in general the viruses/security issue might be mostly ignored in OS4 by its developers. If so, that will become a big problem in the future.

Quote:

>Is the OS ancient in respect to what I can do with it? >In my case, no. Nearly everything I need either already exist, or is in >development, the programs I miss are really just a couple. when you write in "my case its" ok.But when as afxgroup write """" You can joke with your ANCIENT OS like OS3 """" this must seem by all users.Ok i accept UAE and OS3 is ancient.But ask 100 of your friends that are no OS4 fans what they think about it, and wy they do not buy it.Do you really think they say OS4 is modern and comparable to Linux or windows or other OS with that HW OS4 have ?

Do you really think that those 100 people will have the same priorities and the same needs about computing that I and others here have? I think that everyone should have the right to have his own opinion on OS4, and not have to follow others' one.

Quote:

also you can see that on the users that download OS4 soft.not many download, but OS4 is here since 5 years now, so that also tell that OS4 seem ancient and not good enough for many.

Do you mean that, judging by the number of OS4 users around, there should be more downloads, or that since there aren't that many downloads, there aren't that many OS4 users, hence the interest is too low, hence it must be because the system is ancient? If the latter, couldn't be that there are not many users because of other reasons, like HW price being too high, or just ignorance about the existence of the platform?

Varthall

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AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram

@itix

You're not going to beat the rush by sitting here. You'd best get cracking if you want the glory....

_________________
Simon

Comments made by me on any public fora are not representative of, or on behalf of, any company I may have, or assumed by the reader to have, any association with.

Any comments are a personal opinion, and should be accepted as such.

@Crumb

Quote:

Quote: The crowd is already talking why they have not ported it to AROS/Classic AmigaOS/MorphOS when there actually is not functional browser. The crowd is talking about releasing the sources, no one is forcing them to release MorphOS binaries.

I guess I expressed my thoughts badly. Why the crowd is talking about releasing the sources when there is nothing to release? Or that would FF run on OS4Emu when there is no binary to try. Will there be snow for Christmas?

_________________
Amiga Developer
Amiga 500, Efika, Mac Mini and PowerBook

@ itix


I see what you're trying to construct here, but either you are missing or actively trying to avoid the main reason for my claim for an option to transfer the money from AmiZilla to the Frieden brothers:

There was absolutely NO result from AmiZilla in 7 fracking years! After that long time without any results, without any team being able to show something, do you think its fair to still keep peoples money?!

THAT is the point.

I never said anything which would imply that I'd like money to be paid in advance.


So a question to you in turn: Can you tell me any reason why people should leave their money in a bounty, which didn't produce any result in 7 years and where not a single sign is on the horizon that this will change any time soon?

_________________
Regards, Cyborg.
AmigaOS4 development team member

"In the beginning was CAOS.."
-- Andy Finkel, 1988 (ViewPort article, Oct. 1993)

What does TimeberWolf mean for Amiga when it is done?

- proper internet like on windows, linux etc
- more useful things from existing plugins

@Varthall

>That's because, for you, the lack of memory protection is one of the most >important thing missing in OS4, so that it makes it ancient. For me, it's >not, there are other things that I value in OS4 that doesn't make >it "ancient", so you can't really put me (and others too) in the same boat >as you.

Yes right, but when you see the sell of OS4 System and the download counts then you can see how many want the OS4 boat or 68k boat.(68k soft download a little more).

These are only a few hundret and much more have the linux mac or windows boat.

So you cant say OS4 sell well.good when Hyperion furtherdevelop the OS4 boat, i think apple or M$ dows not develop a OS for a boat with few hundred users.

PPC ist btw with newest mac too not support.68k too not of course

@KimmoK

Quote:

But will it be useable? It is very very slow, even on the fastest x86 HW, so could it fly on 667Mhz?

I have the latest version here running on a 'lowly' 1.66Ghz Atom based eeepc with a basic Intel 945 integrated video card and it zooms along. It is very usable so I see no reason why it cannot be the same on OS4.1.

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Sam