@DAX

On ubuntu firefox feels slow. Little bit more stable than Opera, but slower.

For example on this dualcore 3800+ AMD box with 3GB RAM, it feels slow (in real life, everything feels slow when I compare to AWeb on 50Mhz 060).
For example it takes about three times longer to start up than opera.

(The fastest browser on my x86 boxes has been safari and it's based on same building blocks as OWB?)

And no matter what browser is used, it seems that pages like www.mtv3.fi/f1 make the whole system crawl.
(most likely it would happen less on AOS where priorities can be set to powerfully help things)

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

>For example it takes about three times longer to start up than opera.

yes firefox is since it use Cairo very slow on start.that i dislike too
I am not sure wy.

Have you try a HW3d accelerate desktop on Linux, maybe here it start faster.

>You can joke with your ANCIENT OS like OS3, or WinUAE for all your life but the world move >on..

yes, the world moves on, i move too on, and the world have now fast and cheap hardware and an open source firefox, opensource newlib, opensource pthread, opensource cairo, full memory protect

I use winuae and OS3 because it run faster and cheaper emulatet.I see no need to buy a slower and expensive extra Hardware.

I dont understand wy a OS4 system is not ancient.I see both systems as ancient, maybe OS4 have some programs more, but what does it help, when the programs run slower and more expensive as on other systems and on OS4 opensource soft as firefox, Cairo,newlib,pthread is make closed source.

SO WHATS WRONG WY NOT ALL AMIGA USERS ACCEPT, THAT WE ALL SIT IN THE SAME ANCIENT BOAT ?

amiga OS is a ancient system, that very very few use but it make fun.
some like a slow OS4 HW even if they have a fast PC to run firefox on it.
and some use winuae or a classic.

Last edited by bernd_afa on 01-Oct-2009 at 12:26 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 01-Oct-2009 at 12:22 PM.

@ bernd_afa

Judging from your comments (in general, not just here) I somehow get the feeling that the real problem for you is not that the rest of the Amiga world isn't sitting in the same boat, but that the rest isn't sitting in your boat.

Sorry, but all I saw from you in the last years and today is bashing OS4 whereever you can and of course advocating OS3 (on WinUAE) as the absolutely best solution one could get.. if you call THAT "moving on" then I really don't want to know what you'd call "moving back"

Last edited by Cyborg on 01-Oct-2009 at 12:29 PM.

_________________
Regards, Cyborg.
AmigaOS4 development team member

"In the beginning was CAOS.."
-- Andy Finkel, 1988 (ViewPort article, Oct. 1993)

>What di you want to tell us ?

>Short answer, if somebody port a firefox, it is not automatic better
>and faster as existing Amiga browser. ...

Yes evryone knows and the first betas of Timberfox will be buggy, but the speed test itself is ridiculous, maybe you can convince the Friedens for a special Bernd- buffer that caches old screens, a ‘back’ command would need less than 1 second.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

Quote:

What if Amizilla project delivers a port before Frieden bros?

That hasn't happened in years now, and I am sorry to say, but if all that is motivation here is hatred and contempt for anything related to AmigaOS 4.x, I can only say one thing: I pity you.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@wawa

I looked at it back in 1999 to buy a used A4000 that alone set me back 10.000,- NOK
or about 1000 EURO, PCI extortion card 200 Euro, more Memory 100 Euro, bigger disk an other 100 Euro, and

1500,- euro for used Amiga 4000 (maybe broken, whit out warranty)
200,- euro for a BizzardPPC 604e
200,- euro for PCI expansion card.
100,- euro for more RAM.
100,- euro for brigger disk.
100,- euro for better hard disk controller.
100,- euro for AHI compatible sound card.

That’s about 2300 euro. (That includes Norwegian tax of 24% MVA)
So maybe not 4000 but any where expensive for what you get, my conclusion back then was buy BoXeR or give up., BoXeR system never metalized, so I ended up waiting for a AmigaONE, all my money was spent on 800 mhz PC one year after, in 2001 I when got myself a 1.8Ghz PC, waited until 2004 to buy the AmigaONE-XE this is what I’m using now.

Yes I know what I’m talking about, classic systems are where expensive kits, and not where reliable whit all cards plug in to eth other.

_________________
http://lifeofliveforit.blogspot.no/
Facebook::LiveForIt Software for AmigaOS

@bernd_afa

Quote:

I dont understand wy a OS4 system is not ancient.I see both systems as ancient, maybe OS4 have some programs more, but what does it help, when the programs run slower and more expensive as on other systems and on OS4 opensource soft as firefox, Cairo,newlib,pthread is make closed source. SO WHATS WRONG WY NOT ALL AMIGA USERS ACCEPT, THAT WE ALL SIT IN THE SAME ANCIENT BOAT ?

Because the term "ancient" alone is very vague. It is ancient in respect to what? Here are some examples:

Are the APIs ancient in respect to other mainstream APIs?
I guess so, I'm not expert in this, I read that it lacks some key features.

Is the OS ancient in respect to what I can do with it?
In my case, no. Nearly everything I need either already exist, or is in development, the programs I miss are really just a couple.

Is the OS ancient in respect of ease of use, compared to other mainstream OSes?
In my case, no, I find AmigaOS to be very much usable.

Is the HW ancient in respect to other mainstream HW?
Yes, unfortunately.

Is the HW ancient for what I need?
No, for the moment I don't feel the need of a faster hw, althought this will of course change in the future.

Is the HW/SW ancient, since I use it only for nostalgic/retro purposes?
In my case no, my AmigaOne is my only machine (also because of table space problems :( ). I don't feel nostalgic to the Amiga, quite the opposite, I wouldn't really like to return back to my Amiga 1200 with its abysmal speed, OS which needs lots and lots of patches and different hardware stacked one on the other to make it less old.

As you can see, there can be different point of views on what is "ancient". And I believe everyone has its choice of what, among these points, is important and what not.

Varthall

_________________
AmigaOne XE - AmigaOS 4.1 - Freescale 7457 1GHz - 1GB ram

Quote:

SO WHATS WRONG WY NOT ALL AMIGA USERS ACCEPT, THAT WE ALL SIT IN THE SAME ANCIENT BOAT ?

Because we have different boat, different boats owners, different crews and different passengers. That would not be a problem if this boats act like a fleet, but everfy skipper cares only for his own boat. Sometimes there are little fights between this boats. Bernd used long range missiles and of salve of off-topic grenades aimed to the bridge of the OS-IV after they announced a Timberwolf torpedo ...

Last edited by Arko on 01-Oct-2009 at 01:26 PM.

_________________
AmigaONE. Haha. Just because you can put label on it does not make it Amiga.

I borrowed this comments from here (#27 & #28):
http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=38873&forum=2&start=20&order=0

@bernd

well, porting firefox seems to be about the same as porting webkit/OWB. Same modules/concepts:
-threads, IO, memory, dynamic linking (not necessarily requiring .so madness), which are grouped in the "NSPR" layer in firefox.

- network (an abstraction over the standard BSD api, basically). In OWB or WebKit, you have several backends (CURL, Soup, ...), that implement application level (i.e HTTP/FTP...). So it's more work in WebKit, actually.

- "window drawing", input events, drag'n'drop, clipboard, filerequester, which are implemented in the "widget" layer in firefox.

Then, since the firefox GUI seems to be fully rendered with XUL (using itself the previously described layers), there's no additional work to design the browser GUI, as opposed to OWB where each port implements more or less successfully its own. :)

So, in fact, porting firefox is less work than porting OWB. :)

Quote:

The ones who only donated for the OS4 part of AmiZilla may want to transfer the money to Timberwolf.

I will if i can.

_________________
ikir

>Are the APIs ancient in respect to other mainstream APIs?
>I guess so, I'm not expert in this, I read that it lacks some key features.

Yes and thats the Main reason wy there is no full memory protect in any AOS system.And until that, the amiga users sit in same boat, the boat of no memory protext

the memory proteczt OS4 have is same as mmulib offer, you can alloc private mem.

That what happen in the years in OS4 is not very much in compare to make a full AOS memprotect API.

maybe its a greater risc to use firefox on AOS than OWB.because if a Virus use a Firefox Java security hole, then maybe more bad things can happen on AOS.

>Is the OS ancient in respect to what I can do with it?
>In my case, no. Nearly everything I need either already exist, or is in >development, the programs I miss are really just a couple.

when you write in "my case its" ok.But when as afxgroup write

""""
You can joke with your ANCIENT OS like OS3
""""

this must seem by all users.Ok i accept UAE and OS3 is ancient.But ask 100 of your friends that are no OS4 fans what they think about it, and wy they do not buy it.Do you really think they say OS4 is modern and comparable to Linux or windows or other OS with that HW OS4 have ?

there are maybe more users that have install uae, but if of course there come no new programs they do not often use it or they play games.

also you can see that on the users that download OS4 soft.not many download, but OS4 is here since 5 years now, so that also tell that OS4 seem ancient and not good enough for many.

>Sorry, but all I saw from you in the last years and today is bashing OS4 >whereever you can and of course advocating OS3 (on WinUAE) as the

sorry, but have you ever notice that i say not much against MOS or AROS ?
The reason wy i write so much against OS4 i can tell you.

Because i hate vapor and announcements that suggest that someting is better future and this never happen.

On MOS and AROS i see this not so much, so i need not say much.

And there is lots on OS4 annonce that never happen until now.also since 8 months its unclear what the ambigotous project is.some suggest Hyperion want integrate full memory protect, i tell i cant believe it, because all the years very few was done for reach that goal.

but lets see what happen with firefox on OS4 and the secret project.

>absolutely best solution one could get.. if you call THAT "moving on" then

I write only the reason wy i use winuae and not OS4, when a OS4 guy (in this thread it was afxgroup want to tell me in short words that OS4 is more modern) have better future than winuae.

""""
afxgroup write
You can joke with your ANCIENT OS like OS3, or WinUAE for all your life but the world move on..
And now it is time to move from ANCIENT THINGS...
""""

Quote:

That hasn't happened in years now,

The thing is that with the decision/announcement to most likely not release all of the source it is very very likely causing the effect that not AOS4, but one of the others (OS3/MOS/AROS) will be the one to first see a public usable port of Firefox. IMO there's a 90 % chance that this will happen, and 10 % that it will not happen. Because that whole thing caused it to become some kind of challenge for the other sides.

Without that decision it would be the other way round.

The fact that you started many months earlier is mostly irrelevant.

@Arko
>Bernd used long range missiles and of salve of off-topic grenades aimed >to the bridge of the OS-IV after they announced a Timberwolf torpedo ...

Thats a reaction, the timberwolf torpedo is something planned as the Death star from Darth vader.no other in the galaxy should get it.thesy build it alone.

its not working but maybe some hope that the rebells cant kill now or buy OS4 and OS4 grow.And not that this think much and help with money to build the Death star.

but as we all know, the death star was ready to late and the bad Darth Vader die.

ahm forget to write the second Death star is the ambigoutous project announce.

the fourth death star is the announce that there is intresting for Kiosk systems for OS4.

But all Death stars are not functional now
But that doesnt matter if other fear and join the OS4 company.

But on real world the Hyperion AOS Death stars are powerless in compore to Linux or windows Detah Stars.

And if devs think in a win or Linux universe they live better and there is better working together possible then they maybe leave the AOS universe....

Last edited by bernd_afa on 01-Oct-2009 at 01:50 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 01-Oct-2009 at 01:46 PM.

@nuts about amiga:

""
1500,- euro for used Amiga 4000 (maybe broken, whit out warranty)
200,- euro for a BizzardPPC 604e
200,- euro for PCI expansion card.
100,- euro for more RAM.
100,- euro for brigger disk.
100,- euro for better hard disk controller.
100,- euro for AHI compatible sound card.
""
the price you mention for the ("broken") 4000 is redicolous, but then maybe this was the reason i have never had a a4k before y2k. at that time i was already using a pc since few years but my 1k2 with blizzard 060 and 16 which is still the same config today was mostly able to run everything available for amiga except for some laughable wos apps and sure didnt all in all cost more than 2000dm>1000eur. even if i had to bring my 16mb ps2 ram from usa when it was redicolously expensive (for all computers)

and to the point of system stability, i do not have any hardware related problems, as i observe sam owners have on any of my 3.x boxes, and they are few.

aha, and also what concerns the comparison between windows_xp>windows_3.1 is the same aos4.x>aos3.x which has been brought up several times in this thread. as a person who was/is using each and every of these alternatives i must say this completely isnt fair. i do not see much functional difference in favour of os4 compared to os3 except it runs natively on ppc. while windows xp is a completely something else than win3.1, even if you want to call 3.1 an operating system, which it is not. it doesnt allow for multitasking (compared to whatever aos) and it has no mp compared to much later win versions. such differences between aos3/4 are not existent to my knowledge. in which case the decision to support only systems above 4.1 in future looks like a marketing and not a technical decision.

@nuts about amiga:

this investment cant compare, the amiga grow in a time where there PC was more expensive, the hardware always extrem slow, the harddrive too low.

when you compare OS4 then you need also compare with PC/mac systems from 2004 , or PC systems from the amiga days.and from 1989-upto 1995 the amiga with a 68k CPU was always faster/cheaper as a PC for same price.

And thats wy amiga grows.And i think if Motorola does not change to PPC but furtherdevelop same as Intel the CISC (68k for motorola)then there was lots better for AOS

Last edited by bernd_afa on 01-Oct-2009 at 01:58 PM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 01-Oct-2009 at 01:58 PM.

@bernd_AFA

When you say want to know what other people (outsiders) think about os 4.X, well, I am the outsider you seek (back to Amiga after more than 10 years of Windows and OSX use): what I see is that while OS 4.1 is not as advanced as MAC OSX or Windows7, the latest (still unreleased) build I checked out at Pianeta Amiga 2009 (Acube booth) was the only thing that gives me hope that (sooner or later) it could be.
I was with my cousin (a long time Windows user and ex Atarian) and he saw "potential" too.

That's it I think, "Potential" of going anywhere near modernity, something OS 4.1 and above will attempt, and that 3.x 68k cannot.
No hopes for further modern developments=dead retrosystem
Far more modern retrosystem with potential=hope

me like hope

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@bernd: well at least you would be able to run aos4 on 68k hardware ich you wanted, just as some people runxp on 286 ;D

@ ikir

Quote:

I will if i can.

Then you should claim a refund of your AmiZilla donation from DiscreetFX. Which is exactly what anybody else of the OS4-only donators who want to transfer their money should do too.

_________________
Regards, Cyborg.
AmigaOS4 development team member

"In the beginning was CAOS.."
-- Andy Finkel, 1988 (ViewPort article, Oct. 1993)

in general it should be possible for donators to move their money to another bounty after the deadline has expired. otherwise it remains only dead money on some bank account. thats for sure.

Great news! Looking forward to a release.

_________________
God is a man with a grey beard. His name is Jay Glenn Miner.