@Dax
>I'm saying headed that way, not already there).

seem you not notice what the last 8 years happen, the user get few and fewer and OS4/MOS development get slower and slower.

maybe you can speculate how long we must wait until the guys have a modern OS make out of this ?

@bernd AFA

Quote:

As long as they comply with the MPL and necessary component licenses, I'm pretty sure that Firefox devs won't care. Its not breaking any rules or laws. As soon as they break a license, Mozilla's legal will be all over it.

You see, it's the exact same reaction as everybody in here told you it would be.

WTF. did you expect??

_________________

@bernd_afa Quote:

When i write, OS4 is not good, because it cant run dopus magellan with 32 bit Icons, but AFA can. Is that a attack ?

I do not know if it is true, but it DOES sound like "nit picking" to me. i.e. You are choosing small & insignificant problems to justify your argument. Except it only proves that you have no real arguments worth answering.

Quote:

All we know, that for OS4 since long time dopus magellan is announced or not ? And that there is nothing new dopus magellan release for OS4 in this long years is a fact and no attack.

The commercial port of DOpus5 for OS4 was *cancelled* a long time. A great pity, but not all commercial projects succeed. Sounds like another of your OS4 "nit picking" to me...

BTW, I ignored your subsequent post (#429), as it is just a bad rant. You seem unable to make a coherent argument, and instead just stick vaguely-related things together that upset you. Sorry to say, but you really seem like a troll at this point (or otherwise you are having a very bad month, and unwisely take it out on us).

P.S. I still await an answer to my previous post. Or do you avoid difficult arguments?

Last edited by ChrisH on 05-Oct-2009 at 04:16 PM.

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Troels Quote:

WTF. did you expect??

Who knows? Maybe he expected Mozilla angels to descend from heaven, and smite the wicked Friedens for spurning OS3?

Frankly, if he doesn't like OS4/etc, then he should leave AmigaWorld.net, and use amiga.org instead. I'm sure they would be more receptive to his ideas, and maybe he would get less upset at what he reads...

_________________
Author of the PortablE programming language.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue...

@Bernd_AFA

Do you remember when Village Tronic tried to make Picasso cards for macintosh?
They thought that a greater audience there was better than Amiga but they ended up diluted in a much larger market that gave them no attention.

I fear that Aros is doomed with the same fate.

There is too much going on in the x86 world to turn heads, so Amiga needs to get back on his feet the Hard(ware) way.

OS 4.1 had troubles in the past, I read it all on Amiga Future's retrospective but it's developing faster now, not only the new version i saw at Pianeta Amiga but the even newer one that Hyperion has in their hands (they are adding stuff together with the Timberwolf development)

Eventually we will get over 1GHZ CPUs coupled with ultra powerful graphics cards, but it doesn't stop there.

Amcc (Acube's hardware partner) also has a new set of boards for 2010, they are called Titan and you will be able to get one with a 2Ghz DualCore PPC (add a Radeon 4890 or better and couple that with open CL/heterogeneous computing and you have a frigging monster).

A real custom computer running a genuine Amiga OS has better chances of turning heads than overemphasized emulation on x86 (x86 its a double eged sword bound to cut custom OSs that do not have millions of supporters already).

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@Deniil715

Quote:

The solution for you is to simply get OS4 and an OS4 capable machine (such as Sam440, Pegasos-II or AmigaOne).

There's no decently priced hardware in order to do that

Quote:

Then you can finally leave OS3 behind you and move on into enlightment like many of the rest of us have already done

bah! try to run OS4 on a laptop


Quote:

Well, considering the amount of money people spend on other hobbies and interests, it's not that expensive.

If someone tried to sell you a 50¤ router for 500¤ wouldn't you complain? Imagine if someone tried to sell you a 666Mhz Celeron... now imagine that someone tried to sell you a ppc with no L2-less board for 500¤, that would be ridiculous... oh wait!

Some people prefer OS3 because it runs more software than OS4. I mean, apart from people at some radical os4-only sites people won't die for an obsolete OS you can only run on a handful of expensive motherboards.

_________________
The only spanish amiga news web page/club: CUAZ

Quote:

Some people prefer OS3 because it runs more software than OS4. I mean, apart from people at some radical os4-only sites people won't die for an obsolete OS you can only run on a handful of expensive motherboards.

no guy use OS3 these days as primary machine while now (since OWB) it is possible to use OS4 at least for a normal user that use the PC to surf, read mail, view movie, play songs and so on.
And this is not possible on OS3. Even if you run it on a QuadCore 3GHZ..
So stop to say that OS3 run more software because THIS IS NOT TRUE.
Do you think that SAM is expensive?
Also IPhone is expensive compared to its original price. Apple could sell it a 1/3 of its price.. but since there are a lot of Mac fan that buy it why cut the price? And that is APPLE that has a lot of o money.. but this is the only broken record.. you don't want understand that ACube cannot low their prices because a SAM cost more than an IPhone as production.. but anyway you must say always the same things..

_________________
http://www.amigasoft.net

@Crumb

Quote:

Crumb wrote: If someone tried to sell you a 50¤ router for 500¤ wouldn't you complain? Imagine if someone tried to sell you a 666Mhz Celeron... now imagine that someone tried to sell you a ppc with no L2-less board for 500¤, that would be ridiculous... oh wait!

Hobby markets are not mainstream markets. Trying to equate what a hobby item is in relation to the world outside the hobby is not a fair comparison. There is no way that a company like Acube benefits from the same economies of scale as a Dell or HP.

And I would not complain about someone selling a 50 Euro router for 500 Euro, I simply would pass on buying it, and perhaps share with them why. But your example is not apples to apples. SAM runs OS 4.1. Nothing else new does that.

You want to add up what the hardware is on paper and say in PC terms what its worth. Yeah that would be much less. But its not a PC. Its an AOS box. Almost all hobbies are pay to play. If you can't or you don't want to, you just don't.

Are you trying to say that Acube is making huge profits per unit and gouging the community?

Quote:

apart from people at some radical os4-only sites people won't die for an obsolete OS you can only run on a handful of expensive motherboards.

I doubt that most SAM owners view themselves as radicals. And Acube and Hyperion seem ok with the sales they are getting.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

So ... Firefox is just a "for fun" and "freetime project" while doing MAP ("most ambitious project").

_________________
- KimmoK
// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
//
// Thing that I should find more time for: CC64 - 64bit Community Computer?

@fairlanefastback: lets face it: both os3 and os4 and beyond that mos and aros are mere hobby projects at this time. if someone accuses me to be a leftover because i prefer to stick to another (version of) hobby os than i do then i dont think it is rational. also not buying an embedded motherboard supported by os4, but running old hardware or winuae on a modern notebook seems something uncalled for. does this attitude reflects common sence, given that amiga interested people still mostly own 68k hardware and most uploads to aminet are 68k stuff? if im going to stick further money into my "hobby" i will make choices myself. thats for sure.

Last edited by wawa on 05-Oct-2009 at 08:09 PM.

@Wawa
The problem with OS3.x it's that wil stay as an Hobby forever (same as C64 or Sega Saturn) as for Morph and 4.1...who knows?

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@DAX: but even if so, whats wrong with that, isnt that how hobby is supposed to be? if os4 and above becomes realistic alternative once i will reconsider it. but for now i just stay with widest possible user base on amiga within my economical limits. 68k programs are (or should be) usable on os4, mos, and aros without big emulation penalty. there where the sources are available they might be easily natively recompiled if the systems stay api compatible. and wherever we will move on from here also all os4 applications will have to be recompiled once os4 is going to be ported to any future-proof architecture. (i dont advocate intel if that is what it looks like) so at the moment the only futureproof amiga environment available is actually winuae, since there will ever be up to date hardware available for it. (again, im not trying to force anybody to use it).

@bernd_afa

Quote:

I dont want say stay on 68k i only want say, wy OS4 when they have not much progress made in the past 8 years ?

OS4 having "not much progress made in the past 8 years" is utter total codswallop. It is miles better than OS3, and you're just digging for anything that you can find to throw mud at it. It's makes you look desperate to prevent the OS4 userbase (and probably MorphOS' too) from growing, and it just makes you look pathetic. It's not changing anyone's opinion here.

Man, you don't know when to call it quits, and shut up. You're just embarrassing yourself.

Hans

_________________
Join the Kea Campus - upgrade your skills; support my work; enjoy the Amiga corner.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - see more of my work

@bernd_afa

Get back on topic or leave this thread. The thread is about Timberwolf. Its not about you thinking the creators of AOS 4.x are too slow at programming. I also find the implication you make that they have made a ton of money on OS4 kind of laughable personally. I suggest you quit while you are ahead. I'm all for constructive criticism, but you appear to be taking this to a level to just push people's buttons.


@Hans

I know from seeing your posts over the years that you can express what you expressed in a way more in line with the spirit of the TOS, despite the fact that bernd is pushing buttons.


@all

Like in the "Is AOS4 ancient?" thread moderator patience wears thin. I don't relish making examples of folks. But I will if thats what its going to take. Stay on topic. Stay respectful. Report anything you think is a violation and let us handle it. Thank you.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@wawa

Nothing is wrong with you choosing to stick to OS3. DAX is enthusiastic about OS4, and a certain individual is trying to stamp out that enthusiasm (amongst other things), resulting in him explaining why he prefers OS4, and doesn't see the point in using OS3.

Quote:

and wherever we will move on from here also all os4 applications will have to be recompiled once os4 is going to be ported to any future-proof architecture

Says who? My expectation is that older software will be moved into a sandboxed environment when any compatibility break occurs. The whole point of OS4, is to move Amiga OS forward, and so far its capabilities have indeed increased a lot from OS3, with more to follow. This is what OS4 users/developers are enthusiastic about, and why most are not interested in OS3 any more. I thought that I'd still be using my A1200, but I don't.

Hans

_________________
Join the Kea Campus - upgrade your skills; support my work; enjoy the Amiga corner.
https://keasigmadelta.com/ - see more of my work

@hans

Couldn't have said it better!

@Wawa
To me there are a lot of good amigans like you that if put in front of a recent OS4.1 installation (to spend some quality time with) would find no end in satisfaction.
Read my last post in the other thread (Is AmigaOS ancient-post N.289) with all that mess going on how could development proceed smoothly?

I believe things are different now, Ainc financer and puppet master Pentti Kouri dyed last January at age 59 and I believe no one is gonna save them this time...

Glad to hear you'll re-consider if good developments occur

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@DAX

Only problem is, your post there contained various inaccuracies, see the responses in the thread. OS4 by Amiga Inc. was announced in April 2001. A whole 6 months later Hyperion took over the project, a month or so after the original release deadline had passed. Neither Genesi nor any lawsuit existed back then.

Last edited by Zardoz on 06-Oct-2009 at 12:26 AM.

_________________

if many think AOS3 is outdate and you write lots bashes and want tell not many use it, so my Question is then, wy do the friedens as the only devs firefox as closed source ?

Wy they do it not in same way as all other Firefox devs do ?

Please tell me a reason, wy the Friedens the only guys are, that do that ?

Is the reason they dont want that MOS or AROS get a Firefox too ?

but what happen when on MOS and AROS devs say, no we want release source and do it closed source too, so the friedens profit not from our work ?

as i told, we see the friedens announce big on blender, and that it long time not release, we see that the friedens before OWB try to port firefox.they give up, afxgroup do the Port OWB and later do Jörg.

ok, OS4 is here, but this is not only written by the Friedens.

what do users speculate how long the friedens need to get a stable working timberwolf, if the must do all alone and no Jörg or you or other can help here ?

If afxgroup Hans or Jörg announce a firefox Port and do it close source, i say ok there is good chance that you reach the goal, because you show in more software peaces that you are able and motivate to reach your goal in a hobby project.

We also see that Jörg seem give up OWB furtherdevelop, the rumors say as soon firefox is here, OWB is not need and he dont want continue.

So a firefox annonce that have no time limit seem really not help to get a OS4 browser upto date, because it seem the firefox announce demotivate to furthdevelop OWB more on OS4 side.

also if OS4 have a firefox, the main problem, missing adobe flash and need of other not very complete opensource solutions is same on OWB and Firefox.

@afxgroup
>So stop to say that OS3 run more software because THIS IS NOT TRUE.

if it true or not if OS3 can run more software, you can easy test when you try out all the 30000-40000 68k programs (aminet)files and test them on OS4.

I am sure you see then that OS3 can run more Software.

>no guy use OS3 these days as primary machine while now (since OWB) it is >possible to use OS4 at least for a normal user that use the PC to surf, read mail, >view movie, play songs and so on.

thats right, if somebody want a OWB run on AOS this not work good on 68k for now.but netsurf is can also play videos or download....

Its also possible to do it for 68k and AFA in same way as do for OS4 MOS or AROS.

.its same possible to do firefox, and i update since 1 year the ixemul to make it more linux compatible.i see lots opensource programs source that need for OS 4 many #ifdef __amigaos4__

compile for 68k and ixemul there is no need for it.so wy OS4 make porting not more easy and use newest newlib ?

Last edited by bernd_afa on 06-Oct-2009 at 07:46 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 06-Oct-2009 at 07:43 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 06-Oct-2009 at 07:42 AM.
Last edited by bernd_afa on 06-Oct-2009 at 07:39 AM.

@Hans
>resulting in him explaining why he prefers OS4, and doesn't see the point in using >OS3.

that i never say, i use winuae and OS3 and but because OS4 guys begin to bashing that OS3 with AFA is old.then i explain, that i want porgrams as dopus magellan run instead a workbench on OS4 with less feastures.

i dont like if somebody say to me you are ancient and i cant use important programs that nobody write on the new system or somebody do a new program that offer this features.

but DAX i have ask, if he have try out AROS, or what know the reason wy he have only list MOS and OS4 as OS that can have future.

He told then he like no X86.

Then i told him that AROS run too on PPC, and other CPU.so what he write is wrong

Last edited by bernd_afa on 06-Oct-2009 at 07:44 AM.

Quote:

Is the reason they dont want that MOS or AROS get a Firefox too ?

Right. We're doing a Firefox port to cunningly prevent anybody else from doing one. Does that only sound ridiculous to me?

Quote:

as i told, we see the friedens announce big on blender, and that it long time not release, we see that the friedens before OWB try to port firefox.they give up, afxgroup do the Port OWB and later do Jörg

Nobody ever announced "big on blender". Thom just released a single screenshot.

I don't see what the heck the OWB port of anybody has to do with the whole affair.

I am starting to seriously doubt your sanity, and I am getting seriously agitated about the moderation on this site. How come that this person can still continue with his slandering, obvious lies, and badmouthing after X amount of warnings to him? Are you ever going to do something about it?

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail