@Dax

Quote:

There is too much going on in the x86 world to turn heads, so Amiga needs to get back on his feet the Hard(ware) way.

Yes, as long as you create an Amiga mobile phone or MID system. Desktop computers market sucks, now only computers that sell are netbooks. Even Apple makes profits thanks to the iPhone and iPods. Times have changed and no, I don't agree with you about AROS: I think a potential wider audience is always better than a microscopic one. With big numbers, there are more chance to find someone interested.

But, obviously, if someone really thinks that a 800-MHz-alike PPC platform that costs 2x the price of a 10x faster and 1000x more supported PC platform can still be successfull, well, there's the need of a deep reality check.

@Crumb

Quote:

There's no decently priced hardware in order to do that

Define decently?
Getting back to my bikes. Is ¤3500 a decent price for a bicycle?
The thing is that I don't just want to bike back and forth to work on asphalt (i.e. be like everybody else and use a PC). I like to go downhill in terribly rugged terrain doing jumps and drops (i.e. do something different and use an Amiga). To do this I can't get a normal (yet possibly quite speedy) bike for ¤350, but need a special one for 10x the price that might even be slower on normal ground.

Not the best analogy I know. But its not just about the hardware specs, it's the fact that it runs AmigaOS.

Quote:

If someone tried to sell you a 50¤ router for 500¤ wouldn't you complain? Imagine if someone tried to sell you a 666Mhz Celeron... now imagine that someone tried to sell you a ppc with no L2-less board for 500¤, that would be ridiculous... oh wait!

But the Celeron doesn't run AmigaOS, the other board does. That's what we pay for.

Quote:

Some people prefer OS3 because it runs more software than OS4. I mean, apart from people at some radical os4-only sites people won't die for an obsolete OS you can only run on a handful of expensive motherboards.

Well, in that case you mean more old software. And I get it that some people care less about the OS and more about what (potentially old, or cutting edge new) software you can run on it and in that case OS3 or Windows may be a better choise. But don't expect us developers to pay any attention to old versions of the OS. We strive to bring our software to the newest OS version of our favour first.

We *develop* new software, we don't retard new software

Last edited by Deniil715 on 06-Oct-2009 at 01:12 PM.

_________________
- Don't get fooled by my avatar, I'm not like that (anymore, mostly... maybe only sometimes)
> Amiga Classic and OS4 developer for OnyxSoft.

@Zardoz
Maybe I did not explain myself correctly in the first post (I never implied Genesi/Thendic had to do with the troubles Hyperion inccurred in the first part of development, they were indirectly involved in a second troubled part during 2003, I repeat "Indirectly"), but I have just put further explanations there so check them out.

@Bern_Afa and Paolone
I know Aros can run on everything and the kitchen sink, but I have two issues with it:

1)It is open source and I am a closed source guy (prefer Windows 7 and MacOSX to Linux).

2)If it has to be the only way, than so be it (as I said i liked what i saw at Pianeta), but if we can at least try to get back on surface keeping the Amiga name and custom Hardware, I would prefer this second route.

I know pricing is not on our side right now, from a mainstream perspective it doesn't make sense, but neither a 2900 Eur MacPro I can get for 1200 (as a PC) makes sense.

I would like to see if the official development adds interesting stuff such as openCL (who knows what is the Friedens secret project ^__^) or who knows what first.

I believe many amigans feel like this too, but anyway keep up the good work on Aros/Ikaros, who knows if we ALL gonna need it in the future

_________________
SamFlex Complete 800Mhz System + AmigaOS 4.1 Update 4
Amiga 2000 DKB 2MB ChipRam GVP G-Force040 Picasso 2 OS3.9 BB2
AmigaCD 32

@bernd_afa

Quote:

so my Question is then, wy do the friedens as the only devs firefox as closed source ?

The bounty page is very clear.

Quote:

Source code The source code of the port will be made available only as far as the MPL requires it, i.e. all modified source code files will be available for interested parties, but new files will not. This is in accordance with the requirements of the Mozilla Public License. If, after 12 months after the release of a new major version of Firefox, the author(s) of Timberwolf have not released a new version or at least committed to a new version, the source code shall be given to an interested party that can continue development of Timberwolf.

They will be following the MPL. Thats all they need to do. They don't need to justify anything to anyone if the are going to follow the Mozilla Public License. And thats that.

Quote:

Please tell me a reason, wy the Friedens the only guys are, that do that ?

How they follow the license is their business so long as they follow the requirments of the license. Period.

Quote:

Is the reason they dont want that MOS or AROS get a Firefox too ?

Maybe there is. But that their business.

Quote:

what do users speculate how long the friedens need to get a stable working timberwolf, if the must do all alone and no Jörg or you or other can help here ?

The bounty is VERY honest about the time frame, saying "it is next to impossible to give a reliable time frame". Anyone contributing to that bounty is made well aware of this by the very frank information on the page.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Rogue

Quote:

I am getting seriously agitated about the moderation on this site. How come that this person can still continue with his slandering, obvious lies, and badmouthing after X amount of warnings to him? Are you ever going to do something about it?

I understand your frustration and am sympathetic to you voicing it in the same place you feel you are being mistreated by another member, but we need you to take complaints like this to PM. Please.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@all

Just donated 15 Euro.

Lets get this thread back to a positive place folks.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

@Rouge
Quote:

And it isn't GPL, it's triple-licensed actually (MPL/GPL/LPGL). Note that a release of the source code is not ruled out. It just states in the bounty that it isn't a requirement. At this point, it's rather unlikely that this will happen too soon, but it isn't entirely excluded.

Watch out for Richard Stallman.

http://www.mozilla.org/MPL/mpl-faq.html

I want to distribute a modified version of Firefox (or other MPL-covered code). What do I have to do?

You must

* add a conspicuous notice stating where to find the Modifications used to make the binary you are distributing. [3.6] If you wish, you may point at mozilla.org for the base code and then ship diffs between our version and yours.
* if your documentation has a section dealing with licensing or the recipient's rights to the code, put a copy of the MPL in it. [3.5]

In addition, there are several obligations relating to your Modifications. You must

* have the right to distribute your Modifications [3.4 (c)]
* add a correctly-completed MPL header to any new files which are Modifications [3.5]
* make your Modifications available in source code form, under the MPL [3.1]
* make your Modifications available on the same media as the executable version, or on the Net as long as they are available for 12 months [3.2].
* document what your Modifications are [3.3] (one way to meet this requirement is to ship them as diffs)
* include a statement that your code is derived from the particular piece of MPLed code you started with (e.g. Firefox), and a list of the names of the Initial Developers of that code [3.3].

You may require a Mozilla Foundation trademark license if you wish to use Mozilla Foundation trademarks (e.g. the Firefox name or logo).

The LICENSE file distributed with ff3.5b4 clearly states this:
3. Distribution Obligations.

3.1. Application of License.
The Modifications which You create or to which You contribute are
governed by the terms of this License, including without limitation
Section 2.2. The Source Code version of Covered Code may be
distributed only under the terms of this License or a future version
of this License released under Section 6.1, and You must include a
copy of this License with every copy of the Source Code You
distribute. You may not offer or impose any terms on any Source Code
version that alters or restricts the applicable version of this
License or the recipients' rights hereunder. However, You may include
an additional document offering the additional rights described in
Section 3.5.


3.5. Required Notices.
You must duplicate the notice in Exhibit A in each file of the Source
Code. If it is not possible to put such notice in a particular Source
Code file due to its structure, then You must include such notice in a
location (such as a relevant directory) where a user would be likely
to look for such a notice. If You created one or more Modification(s)
You may add your name as a Contributor to the notice described in
Exhibit A. You must also duplicate this License in any documentation
for the Source Code where You describe recipients' rights or ownership
rights relating to Covered Code. You may choose to offer, and to
charge a fee for, warranty, support, indemnity or liability
obligations to one or more recipients of Covered Code. However, You
may do so only on Your own behalf, and not on behalf of the Initial
Developer or any Contributor. You must make it absolutely clear than
any such warranty, support, indemnity or liability obligation is
offered by You alone, and You hereby agree to indemnify the Initial
Developer and every Contributor for any liability incurred by the
Initial Developer or such Contributor as a result of warranty,
support, indemnity or liability terms You offer.


3.6. Distribution of Executable Versions.
You may distribute Covered Code in Executable form only if the
requirements of Section 3.1-3.5 have been met for that Covered Code,
and if You include a notice stating that the Source Code version of
the Covered Code is available under the terms of this License,
including a description of how and where You have fulfilled the
obligations of Section 3.2. The notice must be conspicuously included
in any notice in an Executable version, related documentation or
collateral in which You describe recipients' rights relating to the
Covered Code. You may distribute the Executable version of Covered
Code or ownership rights under a license of Your choice, which may
contain terms different from this License, provided that You are in
compliance with the terms of this License and that the license for the
Executable version does not attempt to limit or alter the recipient's
rights in the Source Code version from the rights set forth in this
License. If You distribute the Executable version under a different
license You must make it absolutely clear that any terms which differ
from this License are offered by You alone, not by the Initial
Developer or any Contributor. You hereby agree to indemnify the
Initial Developer and every Contributor for any liability incurred by
the Initial Developer or such Contributor as a result of any such
terms You offer.

Last edited by mike on 06-Oct-2009 at 03:40 PM.

_________________
C= Amiga addict
,,,
(Oo)
⎛☮ໄ
ﮑὠՀ
Couldn't care less what other people think, seeing that there's concrete evidence they don't.

Quote:

if it true or not if OS3 can run more software, you can easy test when you try out all the 30000-40000 68k programs (aminet)files and test them on OS4. I am sure you see then that OS3 can run more Software.

If you run the Demos (that it is normal that doesn't run on MODERN machine but only on OUTDATED machine) i think that 99% of 68k programs will run on OS4..
If you speak of Demos.. well.. there is no answer.. it is better..

Quote:

thats right, if somebody want a OWB run on AOS this not work good on 68k for now.but netsurf is can also play videos or download.... Its also possible to do it for 68k and AFA in same way as do for OS4 MOS or AROS. .its same possible to do firefox, and i update since 1 year the ixemul to make it more linux compatible.i see lots opensource programs source that need for OS 4 many #ifdef __amigaos4__ compile for 68k and ixemul there is no need for it.so wy OS4 make porting not more easy and use newest newlib ?

Netsurf doesn't have neither a Javascript.. and however i'm sure you never seen OS4 in action. You are speaking only because want to flame everything..
Why don't you port MPlayer for 68k and make a benchmark? Since is so simply. add an #ifdef here and there and compile it.

_________________
http://www.amigasoft.net

@Rogue

Quote:

I am starting to seriously doubt your sanity, and I am getting seriously agitated about the moderation on this site. How come that this person can still continue with his slandering, obvious lies, and badmouthing after X amount of warnings to him? Are you ever going to do something about it?

Well, it's have been handled.

Regarding this kind of remarks in forums, you do know the procedure for what to do if you are not satisfied with the moderation here.
PM a staff member, and he or she will forward it for staff discussion.

_________________
Site admins are people too..pooff!

@Thread

Right, this really has got too out of hand. Some of the allegations and comments made in this thread are really out of order.

I am going to put it simply, that when asked to drop something, it is usually a good idea to drop it. Repeated trolling offences (especially having been asked to desist) will be met with instant bans (as written into the sites Terms of Service) - specifically:
Quote:

Troll: Trolls show no respect for other people's opinions and deliberately crafts messages to provoke others with the intention of wasting their time and energy or just to cause anger and confrontations. There is no point in arguing with them; their minds are made up. Ignore them, and report the posts immediately to an Amigaworld Team Member. Repeat offenders may incur an instant banned.

Now we as staff try to make this place friendly for everyone that visits, and to that end there is no taking of sides. Trolling for any pre-conceived "camp" will be dealt with in the same manner. Moderation is a thankless task, and we do occasionally take some flak for our handling of it. Generally things are pretty good here, and our users know when to step back and let it be.

However, it appears that others do not. These people will find themselves restricted, and should they continue to behave in such a poor fashion once their restrictions expire, they will find themselves permanently banned. We do not take that course of action lightly, nor do we make any kind of habit of it. But if the necessity arises, this will be done.

_________________
Test sig (new)

_Steve_ hallelujah! about time.

_________________
AOS4 Betatester, Peg2, G4@1ghz, Radeon 9250 256mb, 1gb RAM.

http://www.asciiarena.com
http://www.uprough.net

I know this thread didn't exactly go the way it should have, but shouldn't it be bumped back to the front page. Dispite whats been discussed, this is still the hottest news to hit this year.

_________________
Hate tends to make you look stupid...

Quote:

Regarding this kind of remarks in forums, you do know the procedure for what to do if you are not satisfied with the moderation here. PM a staff member, and he or she will forward it for staff discussion.

I apologize for this, yes, I should have taken it to PM. I was losing my temper.

_________________
Seriously, if you want to contact me do not bother sending me a PM here. Write me a mail

@Rogue
Quote:

I was losing my temper.

You and lots of other very patient members!



B.S. walks, software talks.


Cheers

Well, I'll say this. I'm looking damn forward to this piece of software and I want to thank the Friedens for even attempting it.

_________________
Pegasos2 G3 running AOS 4.1 and MorphOS 2.0
Amikit user, tinkering with Icaros VM (AROS)
EFIKA owner
Amiga 1200

EDITED BY MODERATOR!

Last edited by zerohero on 09-Oct-2009 at 08:43 PM.

EDITED BY MODERATOR!

Last edited by zerohero on 09-Oct-2009 at 08:43 PM.

Quote:

Wy they do it not in same way as all other Firefox devs do ?

The Firefox deveolopers allow this to be done by the MPL terms. Go complain to them for allowing anyone this choice, tell them to remove it from the license. So long as Mozilla allows it, there's nothing wrong there. If it was such a terrible thing, they would not have allowed it in the license.

_________________
All glory to the Hypnotoad!