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Hardware News   Hardware News : Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
   posted by BigBentheAussie on 19-Dec-2011 19:44:52 (56314 reads)
Commodore USA has a final challenge for this community that could enable them to have a new Commodore AMIGA with absolutely any of the features they want. We are serious about this, and we hope you will also take this offer seriously too, and contribute positively to the fruition of the Commodore AMIGA dream.

Allow me to outline our final challenge to the community, and how we can work together towards a unifying goal.
I have a list of obligations for the parties.


1. The community must definitively decide, through polls or whatever, what exactly it wants a Commodore AMIGA from Commodore USA to be.
2. Commodore USA will build and/or sell all product/s that will bear the official Commodore AMIGA brand.
3. Commodore USA will sell the first batch of a particular product AT (THEIR) COST to pre-paid customers only.
4. A minimum of 500 customers must pre-pay the entire amount in an independent account at a trusted institution (at the community's discretion) for the project to begin.
5. Commodore USA will negotiate for all required technology, be it software or hardware, and such costs will be divided by the amount of customers in the initial batch. So the more that join in, the lower the overall cost.
6. Commodore USA will outline all the costs, in as much detail as they are able to, before any customers make payment.
7. Commodore USA is ONLY paid on completion of the work to the satisfaction of the 500+ first batch customers, when the final product is ready to ship.
8. On project commencement, Commodore USA will provide monthly project updates until completion.
9. If Commodore USA does not perform the required work in 6 months of the project commencement date, then the 500+ customers have the option to withdraw immediately for a full refund of their prepayment.
10. Commodore USA reserve the right to affix a margin, at their discretion, to future sales of the product/s, past the initial batch.
11. The community will nominate two independent representatives or leaders who will liaise more closely with Commodore USA and report back to the community.
12. Sometimes negotiations require an NDA, that would limit public consumption of exact costs. In such circumstances that an NDA is required, the two nominated representatives of the community, who will also be under NDA, can independently verify such costs.
13. There will be no advertising of the product or its components by Commodore USA until project commencement.
14. In the meantime, Commodore USA will potentially continue with its current x86 based Commodore AMIGA plans, that will co-exist with the community's desired Commodore AMIGA branded product/s.

Warmest Regards,
Leo Nigro
Chief Technology Officer
Commodore USA, LLC
lan@commodoreusa.net
www.CommodoreUSA.net
    

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PosterThread
terminills 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 20:16:29
#381 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

Quote:
@Terminills
As you know AAA and Project Hombre are two different things (I was talking about the former),
Besides, while the PCI bus was already a reality, Hombre was ultra late itself, which would have led third parties Video card to be far more powerful even before its completion...(sad but true).


And X86 is much more powerful than PowerPC. That doesn't change anything. I find AAA much more interesting than any PowerPC board running AmigaOS. :)


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DAX 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 20:25:41
#382 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

get a Natami ;)


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terminills 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 20:39:08
#383 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

Quote:
get a Natami ;)


Don't want one. ;)


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djnick 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 21:54:36
#384 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Jun-2003
Posts: 945
From: space

One of the best thing that could happen to Amiga world would be - installing new Amiga OS that could run any software from any platform. Imagine AmigaOS as MultiOs! Imagine Amiga running Photoshop [through silently running PC emulator] or Linux applications and games [also throught transparent emulation]...

Processors are fast enough to make this possible.

Whatever you decide - AmigaOS or CommodoreOS [I still prefer Amiga, as looks shorter and nicer as a name], if make it as MultiPossibilityOS - it would be a definitive hit.

All best
n.


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Franko 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 22:01:37
#385 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 29-Jun-2010
Posts: 2809
From: Unknown

This thread has gotta be the biggest load of B@llocks I've ever had the misfortune to read on any Amiga forum and that's saying something especially after all the other ones I've also had the misfortune to read on a.org...

I'm beginning to think those that mock & laugh at the Amiga community might just well be right about some of us...

Last edited by Franko on 21-Dec-2011 at 10:02 PM.


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TheDaddy 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 22:56:38
#386 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2005
Posts: 4499
From: Quattro Stelle

But I thought CUSA had a $30 million budget?!

So why ask for money?


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Fairdinkem 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 21-Dec-2011 22:57:55
#387 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 23-Feb-2010
Posts: 489
From: Victoria, Australia

What is the appeal of a Natami (please don't misunderstand me, I think there efforts is titanic and from a retrospective view point it is way cool) but from a modern computing perspective and a view to take the Amiga platform forward what is the appeal of the Natami?

If CUSA were indeed sincere with there proposal why waste such a resource on something such as the Natami, which from what I can see is merely a ground up rebuild of something like an A1200 albeit hotted up. From my perspective to support such a venture is a giant leap back to the year 1995 in order to go forward?


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ExiE 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 0:27:07
#388 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 18-May-2004
Posts: 450
From: Czech Amiga News

Quote:
And X86 is much more powerful than PowerPC. That doesn't change anything. I find AAA much more interesting than any PowerPC board running AmigaOS. :)

Whats the point of AAA these days? It would become obsolete piece of hardware like 12+ years ago. Any todays gfx cards can do the same, more and even more and better.

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Prober 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 0:37:02
#389 ]
Member
Joined: 2-Aug-2005
Posts: 43
From: Czech Republic

From Commodore USA I want only one thing - absolutely nothing.


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terminills 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 0:38:26
#390 ]
AROS Core Developer
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 1388
From: Unknown

Quote:
Whats the point of AAA these days? It would become obsolete piece of hardware like 12+ years ago. Any todays gfx cards can do the same, more and even more and better.


Historic value. :)


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jas_mc 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 1:10:40
#391 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2010
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

Hi guys,

Apologies if this has been covered before, but the comments quickly got lo-o-o-ong... so in lieu of the following, I'd gladly take a link to an earlier post if it exists :)

I'd be really interested if CUSA or one of their supporters could quickly explain:

- What they hope to gain from this and how it fits into their strategy for the brand
- Why it needs to be funded by pre-orders, given what they have told us about the scale of their operations/ funding
- Whether this is a full CUSA project, or a side project that Leo is doing off his own bat with Barry's permission

At the minute, I have two theories:

- CUSA has zero expectation that Amiga fans will get a proposal together, and are just doing this so they can later say, "Look, we offered to do X, Y and Z but they couldn't even agree on what they wanted... we really wanted to do something for Amigan diehards but they snubbed us," etc., etc.. I actually doubt that, but it is a possibility.
- More likely, Leo is doing this as a personal sentimental mission, with permission to do what he wants under the CUSA banner as long as he doesn't need any money to do it (hence prepayment to a third party).

For fans of Amigan OSes, just my two penn'orth, but I think the hardware situation isn't terrible. You can pick up hardware that is reasonably powerful for an achievable price. The problem is lack of software. You could have LOADS of cool apps running on even a Sam440 CPU. The problem is the apps don't exist. If we could find 500 people in this community willing to pay X hundred pounds into a kitty, I'd seriously question whether it would not be better to invest that same money into porting Office software, improving the web experience, etc..


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redrumloa 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 1:48:42
#392 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

@Rob

Quote:
P.P.S. I don't beleive anything will ever come of this "initiative".


Seeing how it is evolving, I don't either.


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jingof 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 2:03:13
#393 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2007
Posts: 497
From: Jingo Fet is from "A Galaxy Far, Far Away"

I'm very late to this thread, so maybe someone already suggested this..

What comes to mind for me is this..

Solve the age old x86 vs PPC dilemma that has plagued the Amiga forums as a frequent topic for over a decade.

This could be done as follows:

1. Apply a "RedHat model" to AROS, enabling a kind of "Super-AROS"

IE.. Put a BOOSTER ROCKET on AROS. Hire several excellent developers and put them on the AROS project full time. Double or triple the resources currently pushing that code base. Enable AROS to catch up to MOS/AOS in 18 months time, and enable existing x86 hardware to become just as good a vehicle for the Amiga experience.

This gives CUSA equal access to an Amiga derived OS that doesn't require starting over, and levels the playing field OS-wise. And obviously, utilizing the x86 compatibility would better than level the playing field hardware-wise.

2. Given the level playing field of #1, build custom software solutions that are very compelling and run on top of CUSA's custom AROS distribution. People are constantly complaining that end-user's familiar with MacOS or Windows will be very disappointed because of missing software support. Identify and address those software suite shortcomings.

3. Put together a full system package that leverages a fully-modernized AROS, CUSA's proprietary value-added software suite, modern x86 hardware (desktop and laptop) and the Commodore brand name in an elegant, well designed package. And priced very competitively.

4. Create a first-class Amiga Bootcamp/Parallels type solution

Mac has used its Windows compatibility to advantage. This strategy would work even better for CUSA. I.e. Enable an industrial-strength "Windows in a Window" strategy for the CUSA custom distribution of AROS, that allows people to pick Amiga in a non-exclusive fashion. Would be a very compelling answer to the "WHY AMIGA?" question, because it changes the question to "why not Amiga?". And it enables a new dimension for Amiga, for which MorphOS and AmigaOS could have no answer, as Windows 7 will never run natively on PPC. Perhaps some deal could be struck with an existing Virtual PC type solution provider, to accelerate such a solution on Super AROS. Then tie this derived product to CUSA's custom x86 hardware configuration, so that you need CUSA's custom hardware to run it.

In summary, focus almost 100% of your resources on software and case design/packaging. Other players are already fully exploiting the custom hardware angle, leaving the 'x86 dilema' as a ripe area where CUSA could come in and do some real good in the Amiga community that I think most would appreciate.

I realize this doesn't give CUSA a "proprietary OS"... but I think ultimately, that could be a real competitive advantage.

And while the RedHat model has had mixed success, the RedHat model never had what CUSA has: access to THE brand, plus a combined OS/Branded Packaging product offering. TMK, RedHat had no compelling reason for customers to buy hardware directly from them. That's a huge missing piece that CUSA wouldn't be lacking.. Which when combined with the good will earned by the "booster rocket" impact on AROS, would motivate most to select the CUSA distribution of AROS, giving plenty of opportunity to turn that adoption into revenue opportunity.

Last edited by jingof on 22-Dec-2011 at 02:14 AM.
Last edited by jingof on 22-Dec-2011 at 02:08 AM.


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TheMaskedMuchacho 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 3:50:33
#394 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 21-Feb-2006
Posts: 341
From: Unknown

Quote:
- Why it needs to be funded by pre-orders, given what they have told us about the scale of their operations/ funding


This seems to be a common interpretation of what Leo said but I think it's mistaken. The way I read it the pre-orders won't be funding anything and the money won't be touched until something is ready to ship, it's just a proof of interest so that they know there is going to be money to cover costs and purchase enough units once the project is completed. Once they are sure there is interest they will spend THEIR money to have something built, Nobody can blame them for wanting to be sure they're not going to lose every penny they spend on this project if anything actually comes from it and that's not looking very likely at the minute the way discussions are going.

I'm not a fan of CommodoreUSA's past actions but i always like to give people a second chance, i'm am intrigued to see what comes of this.


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BigBentheAussie 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 6:46:44
#395 ]
Super Member
Joined: 28-Oct-2003
Posts: 1690
From: Melbourne, Australia

It would be unrealistic to expect the community to make a decision in a couple of days or even a couple of weeks.
There's no time limit on the community coming to a decision.
It'll take some time to wrap your head around what we're asking of the community.
As a matter of fact this was Barry's idea.....


_________________
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Opinions expressed are my own and not those of C= USA.
Commodore/AMIGA "Beautiful, High-Performance, Home Computers for Creativity and Entertainment."

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Hondo 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 8:14:16
#396 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1355
From: Denmark

@Bigbenthe aussie

Quote:
As a matter of fact this was Barry's idea.....


And it's a good idea, but he should have asked A-Eon and Hyperion instead. By asking the community first he shows no respect towards what other companies are trying to do for this community. Not a good way to enter this little ecosystem called the Amiga universe.


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DAX 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 8:28:05
#397 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Sep-2009
Posts: 2790
From: Italy

@BigBenTheAussie
What's needed is some money up front to order enough of these ->LINK.
This all new series of processors delivers the kind of performance people expects today, and can be cheap enough if ordered in decent quantities (CPUs will be available from 1 up to 12 physical cores).
Maybe you cannot do it alone, but if a few companies team up who knows...


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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 9:43:40
#398 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

I have read the entire thread with great interest!

I've been thinking some about different OS. If CUSA shall develop a computer specifically for the Amiga community with AmogaOS and PPC, I think it is an expensive business. Additionally, the A-eon already. Is it economically feasible to develop a similar system again?

After careful consideration I have come to this:

Amiga Community agree that the two systems must be provided as official system

1 - AmigaOS with PPC
.... Hyperion develops, at present, AmigaOS
.... A-Eon develops PPC

2 - Aros with x86
.... Aros Aros-team develops
.... CUSA develops x86 for Aros

There is also a point three and it's all the other developers and systems that exist or will exist.

Aros is developing very fast, faster than AmigaOS. If Aros become Amiga Communitu Official OS for x86, it will develop even faster after a while because of all the new users coming.

That is:
CUSA is developing hardware for Aros.
CUSA need to contract with Hyperion to use Aros in the specially developed PC.
The name of the system become:

"Amiga Aros"

I think the appearance of such a computer should be retro Amiga 1000th
In that case, the name:

"Amiga Aros 1000"

if there is a newer version, it might be called:

"Amiga Aros 2000"

and so on.


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ddni 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 10:11:40
#399 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 11-Jan-2007
Posts: 818
From: Northern Ireland

Quote:
It'll take some time to wrap your head around what we're asking of the community. As a matter of fact this was Barry's idea.....


What you are asking of the community....?

Strikes me all you have done is throw a burning match into a firework factory.
You are now standing back giggling as a few unsuspecting Amigans get all excited about NOTHING!

Last edited by ddni on 22-Dec-2011 at 10:12 AM.


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AlexC 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 22-Dec-2011 12:33:00
#400 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Jan-2004
Posts: 1296
From: City of Lost Angels, California.

It sounds like a good idea and up to #13 it all seems reasonable, but then there is condition #14... why? It's like dropping a heavy boulder on the thin ice of a seemingly genuine offer.

It looks like many people are focusing on some complete system (I haven't read all 400 comments) but based on earlier discussions, CUSA track record, what is feasible and what is best for the Amiga in general, I'd say that what we all need most is a branded case with ATX form-factor.

- it's relatively easy and cheap to produce
- it should be within CUSA's capabilities
- it wouldn't step on anyone's toes as it's just a case, not a system
- it may appeal to far more than 500 people as the cost/unit is likely to be less than $50
- it would allow all Amiga hardware, be it A1, MicroA1, Sam, Peg1/2, X1000, PCs running AROS/Amithlon/UAE/etc have the same kick-ass case which says AMIGA on it (preferably with the original Garamond font)
- the general public is more likely to notice it, recognize it and remember it (especially if you leave the design to me )
- consistent branding can only be a good thing in the long run

Of course it's not as exciting as some completely new system but it would be useful for all Amiga flavors and there's plenty of design possibilities for a case which makes macs and pcs look like cow dung. We still have enough talented designers to teach Cupertino a thing or two

Last edited by AlexC on 22-Dec-2011 at 12:40 PM.


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