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Hardware News   Hardware News : Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
   posted by BigBentheAussie on 19-Dec-2011 19:44:52 (56320 reads)
Commodore USA has a final challenge for this community that could enable them to have a new Commodore AMIGA with absolutely any of the features they want. We are serious about this, and we hope you will also take this offer seriously too, and contribute positively to the fruition of the Commodore AMIGA dream.

Allow me to outline our final challenge to the community, and how we can work together towards a unifying goal.
I have a list of obligations for the parties.


1. The community must definitively decide, through polls or whatever, what exactly it wants a Commodore AMIGA from Commodore USA to be.
2. Commodore USA will build and/or sell all product/s that will bear the official Commodore AMIGA brand.
3. Commodore USA will sell the first batch of a particular product AT (THEIR) COST to pre-paid customers only.
4. A minimum of 500 customers must pre-pay the entire amount in an independent account at a trusted institution (at the community's discretion) for the project to begin.
5. Commodore USA will negotiate for all required technology, be it software or hardware, and such costs will be divided by the amount of customers in the initial batch. So the more that join in, the lower the overall cost.
6. Commodore USA will outline all the costs, in as much detail as they are able to, before any customers make payment.
7. Commodore USA is ONLY paid on completion of the work to the satisfaction of the 500+ first batch customers, when the final product is ready to ship.
8. On project commencement, Commodore USA will provide monthly project updates until completion.
9. If Commodore USA does not perform the required work in 6 months of the project commencement date, then the 500+ customers have the option to withdraw immediately for a full refund of their prepayment.
10. Commodore USA reserve the right to affix a margin, at their discretion, to future sales of the product/s, past the initial batch.
11. The community will nominate two independent representatives or leaders who will liaise more closely with Commodore USA and report back to the community.
12. Sometimes negotiations require an NDA, that would limit public consumption of exact costs. In such circumstances that an NDA is required, the two nominated representatives of the community, who will also be under NDA, can independently verify such costs.
13. There will be no advertising of the product or its components by Commodore USA until project commencement.
14. In the meantime, Commodore USA will potentially continue with its current x86 based Commodore AMIGA plans, that will co-exist with the community's desired Commodore AMIGA branded product/s.

Warmest Regards,
Leo Nigro
Chief Technology Officer
Commodore USA, LLC
lan@commodoreusa.net
www.CommodoreUSA.net
    

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PosterThread
Metalheart 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:00:23
#301 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2968
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

Indeed listen to WOL.

MAKE THE POLL !!!

We'll see what it leeds to !


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redrumloa 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:02:06
#302 ]
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Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

Quote:
Poster: Wol Date: 20-Dec-2011 19:54:57

Well I can't believe the bitching and negativity in this thread, is Amigaworld full of retards and regressive people; also people who obviously can't read ?


Alright! Now the party has started!


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BigD 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:02:38
#303 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

Quote:
You really don't realize how silly that sounds, do you


What you on about? I think the comment is reasonable, we really don't need CUSA. They build cases with generic x86 mobos inside bundled with Linux! What sort of earth shattering contribution does that bring to the table? If they think we're going to pay up front for a dream retro styled PeeCee computer when they have zero respectability in the community they are kidding themselves. Bring back Commodore Gaming and their Ckin PeeCees, at least they were colourful


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billt 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:03:11
#304 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 24-Oct-2003
Posts: 3156
From: Maryland, USA

Quote:
If you can't even decide....then heck.....what hope is there?


Please, don't tell me that this is all just a game and you are relying that the community won't be able to agree on something, and you're really expecting to walk away laughing...

Also understand that the number of times the community has been ripped off by prepay scams makes us not really want to do that anymore. (BoXeR, iFusion, CyberStormG4, etc)


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Cool_amigaN 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:03:42
#305 ]
Super Member
Joined: 6-Oct-2006
Posts: 1193
From: Athens/Greece

@redrumloa

A symptom of paranoia is loosing short term memory.

Let me quote you, your own words:

Quote:

A-Eon: We would like the community to fund a commercial project. Would you be interested?

I fixed that for you.


Why you brought A-Eon into the table, is you that have to answer :)

I've evaluated hundreds of business plans, the only thing that lacks for the above bp to be characterized as a structural/operational type of a pyramid company is a clause that will offer percentage of future sales to the funders.


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Toaks 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:10:46
#306 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 10-Mar-2003
Posts: 8042
From: amigaguru.com

wtf, never seen such high activity in a news item like this for ages.


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BigD 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:12:01
#307 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 11-Aug-2005
Posts: 5387
From: UK

Quote:
aybe they can do a deal with Hyperion, get X1000 production increased/ prices droped, use the X1000 as an entry level machine ; then build something faster later...


What?! The only reason I can see for CUSA to be attempting to court Amiga forums is to protect their IP and to attempt to neutralise the competitive threat they see from Hyperion and A-Eon. They operate in a different market, the same one as Amiga Inc; leach off the memory of the Classic Amiga Computer to sell cheap x86 generic tat in a branded or classically styled case!!! This is scandalous and another pathetic chapter in the Amiga story. CUSA/Amiga Inc do the noble thing and sell all remaining Amiga IP to Hyperion before you devalue it to the point of complete derision.

Last edited by BigD on 20-Dec-2011 at 08:13 PM.


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redrumloa 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:12:12
#308 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

Quote:
@redrumloa

A symptom of paranoia is loosing short term memory.

Let me quote you, your own words:

Quote:

A-Eon: We would like the community to fund a commercial project. Would you be interested?

I fixed that for you.



Why you brought A-Eon into the table, is you that have to answer :)



I really don't know what point you are trying to make. I was simply showing how CUSA and A-EON could be interchangable in that statement, both want pre-payment. The difference I see is A-Eon took pre-payments directly where CUSA seem to be implying a 3rd party escrow account.

Quote:
I've evaluated hundreds of business plans, the only thing that lacks for the above bp to be characterized as a structural/operational type of a pyramid company is a clause that will offer percentage of future sales to the funders.


Huh? Pyramid schemes? Business plans? ZOOM, way off into left field you go!


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Nameless 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:17:06
#309 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 10-Nov-2008
Posts: 315
From: Unknown

Just checking on this thread again from yesterday. I see there is little agreement, of course.

Which is to be expected, really.

To me, I'd think it'd make more sense if CUSA simply outlined some plans of what is possible, how much approx it'd cost, then have people vote on it.

Such as:

1. PPC w/AOS 4 desktop - $1000
2. X86 w/ licensed + ported AOS4 desktop - $2000
3. FPGA arcade in case - $400
4. Natami in case - $1000
5. Amiga on a chip game system - $125
6. X86 w/Aros, licensed AOS name - $1000

Etc. etc.

Without pricing or seeing what is even possible, I'm not sure if people will really come to any conclusion here. Some ideas are also more commercially feasible longterm than others, which really should be the priority if running a business anyway.

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kas1e 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:19:47
#310 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3425
From: Russia

@red

Are you really can't see that Trevor and Barry "a bit" different persons, and comparing a-eon with cusa its "a bit" different ? Not that i mean there anti-cusa or aos4-fanboism, but Trevor are nice man, friendly, he write articles for amiga mags back in past, he afeqaute, he really want help in som way. While barry ..

Where you get your hopes, that persons like barry can do anything positive and intersting for all of us ? Did you will ever work with anyone, who do and talk the same as barry in last year ?

I really can't follow logic what the reassons of any polls when cusa involved. Just talking one more time "what is amiga and what i want" ? What is sense of this ?

Last edited by kas1e on 20-Dec-2011 at 08:21 PM.


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Hondo 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:23:21
#311 ]
Super Member
Joined: 10-Apr-2003
Posts: 1355
From: Denmark

@redrumloa

Quote:
Wow, you really believe the X1000 and Netbook are going to bring thousands of new users? Really


Never said that. But yes after the arrival of the X1000 and the netbook I belive the AOS 4.xx community will consist of several thousand users. Please read my original sentence once more, thanks.

Quote:
Funny, I talked about uniting the camps and you see this as trying to divert OS4 users to something unclean.


No I just think you want to divert CUSA away from anything OS4 by belittling the numbers of OS4 users. But please forgive me if not.

Quote:
There really is no communicating with some of you people. You live in your own little fantasy world where someone's words mean something totally different and the whole world is out to get you.


Oh I don't think the whole world is out to get me, but I surely think that certain people including you is out to get OS4 - and so in a way you're trying to get me, because I really really want OS4 to live and prosper. I only defend what I see as an attack on my personal hobby, nothing more. When something wrong is said about OS4, I'll correct it endlessly.

Quote:
You really don't realize how silly that sounds, do you


Please don't drag Realize into this - no I don't think it silly to say that hyperion and a-eon already are doing what cusa somehow invites to now....in a way.

Last edited by Hondo on 20-Dec-2011 at 08:30 PM.


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Metalheart 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:24:33
#312 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 21-Aug-2003
Posts: 2968
From: Somewhere in the Dutch mountains....

OK then ?
Noone want to start a poll ?
Any sugestions about who should ?
Any sugestions on wich forum to use for this poll ?

I'm just as critical/cynical as the rest (some) of you, but what does it hurt to initiate a poll ?

Martin


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ChrisH 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:33:08
#313 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Jan-2005
Posts: 6673
From: Unknown

@BigBentheAussie
I'm sorry to say, but C=USA has gone from bad to just plain bizarro world. I mean, trying to get "the community" to agree on anything is probably impossible. (Do you actually read the forums on AmigaWorld?!?)

And even if you did, the end result would probably look something like the car that Homer Simpson designed (hint: overloaded with tons of cool-sounding features, which are pretty irrelevant to most customers, and make it hugely expensive and silly looking).

I'm not even sure there is one "community". It looks more like lots of little "communities", each with their favourite OS & hardware.

Your proposal also has heavy overtones of prior (Amiga) pre-pay "scams", even if you have made attempts to mitigate that.


Overall, I simply cannot imagine your proposal ever working the way you set out. The only thing I can see you getting is lots of attention (good & bad), which does at least fit with your company's lurid past behaviour. So I am afraid you can count me out (unless things actually progress to a poll containing some realistic-sounding AmigaOS4-related thing).


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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:33:36
#314 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

Quote:
Huh? Pyramid schemes? Business plans? ZOOM, way off into left field you go!


It's simple Red, haters have to hate. From the responses so far from the usual suspects, it seems this offer has given them a panic attack. C=USA's offer is nice offering to the Amiga Community on projects that have on people's wish list for years that have not come to be nor likely to come to be. Here is a chance for the Community to pull together and get something done with someone else taking a financial risk, yet the haters are bellyaching about it because it's not given to them on a silver platter.


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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:38:04
#315 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

Quote:
OK then ? Noone want to start a poll ? Any sugestions about who should ? Any sugestions on wich forum to use for this poll ? I'm just as critical/cynical as the rest (some) of you, but what does it hurt to initiate a poll ?


I would suggest start a thread asking for what should be put in the poll options and create a poll from there. Pity there is no "like" option to count what people consider as a top option for the poll.


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Krischan76 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:39:38
#316 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2007
Posts: 47
From: outside the looney bin

Comments like the above #314 by @Damocles is exactly why we can't have nice things.

Last edited by Krischan76 on 20-Dec-2011 at 08:40 PM.

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Tuxedo 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:46:47
#317 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 28-Nov-2003
Posts: 2324
From: Perugia, ITALY

@BigBentheAussie

I think that a new Commodor eAmiga can be a great opportunity for the Amiga community but only if it will run AmigaOS4.x...
So for me if you can do that was enough :)


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PG 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:48:50
#318 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 17-Mar-2008
Posts: 114
From: Norway

I agree with Hondo concerning the future of AmigaOS.

Things are looking pretty good right now. We've got the AmigaOne 500 from ACube, the AmigaOne X1000 from A-EON and partners, and in the near future (2012) a netbook by Hyperion.

Due to the estimated price of the netbook, I'm positive that it will bring many new users into the world of AmigaOS. I personally know many users of classic Amiga systems that are going to purchase this netbook. They are curious about what AmigaOS 4.x has to offer and the netbook will be a cheap entry level alternative that they can afford. There are non-Amiga owners too that could be interested..

More users means more developers, which again leads to more software.. :)

2012 will hopefully be a great year for AmigaOS 4.x (and for the Amiga in general of course).

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kas1e 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:49:04
#319 ]
Amiga Developer Team
Joined: 11-Jan-2004
Posts: 3425
From: Russia

@MetalHeart
Quote:

I'm just as critical/cynical as the rest (some) of you, but what does it hurt to initiate a poll ?


Because we already have millions of such polls through of last years and none of them have any kind of success.

@Krischan76 & damocles

You fail to see that hate and realism are different ? No one hate anything. Just when something suck it suck. Without any kind of hate. Why you just miss the most important moment, which make CUSA less-worth in comparing with any others ? Why you fail to see how barry talks with ppls ? Why you fail to see, that CUSA just annoy everyone with their scum ? Why you fail to see, that they STOLE images and text of their unprofessionaly done site ? Why all of you who now protect that cusa stuff, not answer on that and skip those questions ?

Quote:

I would suggest start a thread asking for what should be put in the poll options and create a poll from there.


Of course. Right on the front page :) Then after one month another one, and so, let's fill by cusa polls aw.net . Even bad PR is PR, and google will have more pages in index, better for sold linuxes with sticker.


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KimmoK 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 20:49:33
#320 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5191
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

My old rev0.1 ideas draft:

To me it seems C= wants "it" to be a HW+SW product that they can later sell as they wish under the name Commodore AMIGA, it limits some other options.

If it's PPC based, it can easily run all modern NG AmigalikeOS.
If it's ARM based, any AmigalikeOS would loose applicationbase and cause further split.
If it's x86 based, it's good for laptop & desktop but not yet everywhere + the loosing of application base.

So, to me it seems it would have to have AOS4 (optionally also all others).
It would require a deal with Hyperion for AmigaOS & money paid for the port.
Optimally it should be in co-operation with (one of the) existing AOS HW partners.
It could include for example OpenOffice bundle as a part of the deal (benefitting all parties).
It might require R&D money spent to accelerate Gallium3D+OpenGL work + port of Unreal3D or some other high end 3D development tool. (especially in case of the retro+AOS4 games console)
And the product should be prebuilt&installed&ready to run.

My original (c&p from the other thread)

What are the community's needs/wish for next HW (2H/2012).
(related to C= USA Christmas offer)

C= should:
1-participate in bringing the NetBook to market (sooner+better drivers+higher volume, 350EUR)
2-bring a new ultra low end desktop/retrogames console to market (around 300EUR)
3-bring cost reduced SAM460 kind of HW to market (co-operation with ACube) (around 500EUR)
4-partner with A-Eon to bring their next HW to market (X2000? ~1000EUR)
5-bring the power2people MPC6810 HW to market (~500EUR?)
6-bring a NATAMI+PPC+PCIe comboHW to market (~700EUR?)
7-something else

Prices would include AOS4 license.
Later (or at the same time) MOS and AROS could be brought to the HW platform.

Update: more details
For option 1, the NetBook:
- MPC5121e based, because there is no other usable options @ PPC land.
- 1GB RAM, 400Mhz, sata, SD, 2...4xUSB...
- There is no preorder system ongoing for netbook, this could be a start of it
- OS is already being ported for it, etra $$$ from C= would accelerate driver development etc.
For o2:
- MPC5121e based, unless there is a suitable 3D chip to use with some PPC SOC CPU
- LimePC X1 with more RAM etc could serve the initial purpose (but new >1Ghz design with GPU chip would be better)
- the graphics could be also generated via some large FPGA (it would also handle legacy I/O)
- A lot of support SW would be needed, like click and play any retro games + online contents shop
For o3 and o5 (they target the same range of computing, the MID range):
- >1Ghz SOC as the CPU, =>1GB RAM, =>500MB 3D RAM & => R700 GPU
- PCIe slots (1* 4x...16x + 1...2* 1x), 4...8x USB ...
- large FPGA or xena, if users so desire on the second level poll, perhaps as localbus expansion
For o4 (the affordable High End):
- Most likely P5020 based, done by Varisys for A-Eon + C=
- Little bit smaller board than X1000, while similar performance, except perhaps only PCIe8x and no legacy PCI
- xena if still wanted by Varisys & Community
For o6 (variant/alternative of Mid Range):
- Large FPGA to deliver basic GFX (eg NATAMI), >1Ghz CPU, PCIe x4...x8, etc...

Other:
After the initial poll, the second one would bring more details for the initially selected decision.

Last edited by KimmoK on 22-Dec-2011 at 11:49 AM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 20-Dec-2011 at 08:51 PM.


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