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Hardware News   Hardware News : Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
   posted by BigBentheAussie on 19-Dec-2011 19:44:52 (56312 reads)
Commodore USA has a final challenge for this community that could enable them to have a new Commodore AMIGA with absolutely any of the features they want. We are serious about this, and we hope you will also take this offer seriously too, and contribute positively to the fruition of the Commodore AMIGA dream.

Allow me to outline our final challenge to the community, and how we can work together towards a unifying goal.
I have a list of obligations for the parties.


1. The community must definitively decide, through polls or whatever, what exactly it wants a Commodore AMIGA from Commodore USA to be.
2. Commodore USA will build and/or sell all product/s that will bear the official Commodore AMIGA brand.
3. Commodore USA will sell the first batch of a particular product AT (THEIR) COST to pre-paid customers only.
4. A minimum of 500 customers must pre-pay the entire amount in an independent account at a trusted institution (at the community's discretion) for the project to begin.
5. Commodore USA will negotiate for all required technology, be it software or hardware, and such costs will be divided by the amount of customers in the initial batch. So the more that join in, the lower the overall cost.
6. Commodore USA will outline all the costs, in as much detail as they are able to, before any customers make payment.
7. Commodore USA is ONLY paid on completion of the work to the satisfaction of the 500+ first batch customers, when the final product is ready to ship.
8. On project commencement, Commodore USA will provide monthly project updates until completion.
9. If Commodore USA does not perform the required work in 6 months of the project commencement date, then the 500+ customers have the option to withdraw immediately for a full refund of their prepayment.
10. Commodore USA reserve the right to affix a margin, at their discretion, to future sales of the product/s, past the initial batch.
11. The community will nominate two independent representatives or leaders who will liaise more closely with Commodore USA and report back to the community.
12. Sometimes negotiations require an NDA, that would limit public consumption of exact costs. In such circumstances that an NDA is required, the two nominated representatives of the community, who will also be under NDA, can independently verify such costs.
13. There will be no advertising of the product or its components by Commodore USA until project commencement.
14. In the meantime, Commodore USA will potentially continue with its current x86 based Commodore AMIGA plans, that will co-exist with the community's desired Commodore AMIGA branded product/s.

Warmest Regards,
Leo Nigro
Chief Technology Officer
Commodore USA, LLC
lan@commodoreusa.net
www.CommodoreUSA.net
    

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PosterThread
gtmooya 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 9:02:37
#421 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2011
Posts: 285
From: Unknown

Voted on the poll website.

Couldn't careless what processor as long as price to performance ratio is good and AmigaOS 4.x runs on it.

No to any form of pre-payment.


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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 9:49:57
#422 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

@DocBrown
Quote:
What does CUSA offer *today* that would support a claim to 'lead the way'?



Contacts, ability to get things done and the fact that they really want something.[


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Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 9:52:23
#423 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

It appears on the advance payment is the hard bit!


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http://www.kensonpro.com
Program, codes for websites, hifi, measuring instruments and more. The site is of more than 1200 pages and nearly 3Gb .

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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 15:35:27
#424 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

Quote:
It appears on the advance payment is the hard bit!


I guess they don't believe their "wish" product is worth while enough to get it even at dead cost.


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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 15:37:00
#425 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@ gtmooya

Quote:
No to any form of pre-payment.


Then why should you be able to buy it at dead cost then?


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number6 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 15:57:59
#426 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@damocles

Given that some of the more popular ideas are accelerator and s/w port, and given that the existing community would not need "contacts" per se to get those done (they already know whom to approach)...

Could you perhaps more clearly define why anything would be more advantageous to do through CUSA as opposed to just using a bounty solution of their own?

#6


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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 16:33:19
#427 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

Quote:
Could you perhaps more clearly define why anything would be more advantageous to do through CUSA as opposed to just using a bounty solution of their own?


I'll leave the official stuff to Leo.

However, speaking as a third party who founded TeamAROS Bounty System which after several years was moved to Power2People when I started to step away from AROS, I do have some views on this matter. Having a international corp with an owner with decades of experience and personal contacts in the massive Chinese electronics (and furniture) ODMs means that small projects will be done by the superior efforts in order not to lose face. That also means it gets done in a reasonable time period, although the big firms get priority, tiny orders by old customers do not get lost in the shuffle. This also means the lowest prices that an unknown with a tiny order will never be offered. Then there is the experience of importing without having to go through hair pulling experiences of an "surprise" tariffs. Last but certainly not least is the difference of a bounty having to go and demand more money from the end users for "unexpected costs" vs C=USA eating those cost since they were not apart of the final price that was set.

Barry's offer is one hell of a generous offer, yet the haters still trying to bitch slap him for it. Unbelievable, simply unbelievable on how low the online Amiga Community has degraded to.


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number6 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 16:44:59
#428 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 25-Mar-2005
Posts: 10881
From: In the village

@damocles

I appreciate the response. I hope you understand what I'm getting at with this.
Look at point #1 as an example:

Quote:
what exactly it wants a Commodore AMIGA from Commodore USA to be.

Obviously, the ideas expressed have strayed far from the specific of point #1.
So just as the thoughts expressed in this thread and the polls have matured/changed over the passing days, I think that the points about the offer need to be updated as well to stay in line with what is being said on the community side.

Regardless, things still seem to be more civil overall than in the past. If that's all that comes out of this, that's still something.

#6


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sundown 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 19:46:30
#429 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5117
From: Right here...

@damocles

Quote:
Barry's offer is one hell of a generous offer, yet the haters still trying to bitch slap him for it. Unbelievable, simply unbelievable on how low the online Amiga Community has degraded to.

Crap comments like this is why some here spit on cusa, its supporters like you who make cusa look bad.


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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 21:44:50
#430 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

@sundown

Quote:
Crap comments like this is why some here spit on cusa, its supporters like you who make cusa look bad.


Come on, let go of the hate for the weekend and enjoy the festivities.


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sundown 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 24-Dec-2011 23:09:43
#431 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 30-Aug-2003
Posts: 5117
From: Right here...

@damocles

I have no hate for you or cusa, but you need to give it a rest as well.

Merry Christmas


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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 0:35:34
#432 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
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From: Unknown

merry christmas to you too

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KingKong 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 8:12:11
#433 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2006
Posts: 95
From: Germany

possible wish: just like the AmigaOne X1000 with AmigaOS 4.x ... only better, perhaps cheaper.

But how likely is it, that Commodore USA can do this? zero?

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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 13:40:38
#434 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

Quote:
possible wish: just like the AmigaOne X1000 with AmigaOS 4.x ... only better, perhaps cheaper.

But how likely is it, that Commodore USA can do this? zero?


That's a complicated project since that involves multiple vendors and at least one license agreement has to be made. Having said that, since there would be zero retail profit being made, somewhat possible on a cheaper price. You need 500 people to verbally commit, which would push it to C=USA to come up with a final price divided by the 500 people which would go to a third party escrow account until the product is delivered.

I would suggest something less complicated as the first project that everyone would be interested in.


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KingKong 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 14:53:16
#435 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2006
Posts: 95
From: Germany

Well, what have Commodore USA done so far? Does it seem to anyone that they want to revive Amiga?

AmigaOS has a great Chance and needs only more money. The best chance is in Europe because MS/Intel/Apple will stop any real attempt in the USA. Europe can save billions (10^9) if it replaces MS with AmigaOS - this thought must only be communicated in the right circles and the money will flow. It's possible because MS-windows is too big/slow/buggy (for military and industry) - imagine what AmigOS can become with some 100 million Euros. (imho)

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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 25-Dec-2011 15:25:08
#436 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

Quote:
Well, what have Commodore USA done so far?


They have returned the C64 back into the modern computer market an excellent replica with a customized Linux distro called Commodore OS Vision that will come pre-installed in the near future. They are now in the planning stages for their Commodore Amiga series among other things.


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OlafS25 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 26-Dec-2011 10:45:18
#437 ]
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Joined: 12-May-2010
Posts: 5761
From: Unknown

I do not see much chances for that. If you want to replace MS you have already Linux (established, supported by many companies, more developers and users, more drivers, more software...). Why choose any exotic and commercial OS that only runs on a outdated processor family? That is what most "outsiders" will think...

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-pekr- 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 26-Dec-2011 13:16:03
#438 ]
Member
Joined: 29-May-2007
Posts: 98
From: Unknown

Well, I am constantly tired of pointing constantly to QorIQ-whatever-nobody-cares-about kind of CPUs.

Every sane person knows, that PPC nowadays is a mistake, even for Amiga. And why? Becaue in order to get high power Amiga, somebody needs to bring us reasonable HW first. Now what are our options, after so many years? How long is X1000 delayed, and how much will it cost and how well will it perform in regards to competition, once released?

I know your (whoever you are) arguments, about AOS being already PPC based, and eventual cost of porting. It is just that when I compare it to general non-availability of suitably and acceptably priced HW, I don't believe your arguments for one single second.

I can see three ways to be supported:

- NATAMI kind of project - for those loving nostalgia, old Amiga ecosystem, fun
- x86 for high-end Amigas
- ARM cpu - ARM is a king of embedded plus mobile ecosystem

The answer is to FINALLY forget ANY Amiga HW company. I am fan of custom HW, as a hobby projects, or with special business plan in mind. But all that nonsense started with Amiga Inc. and their ZICO specifications, and later supporting Eytech's lock-in.

This whole Amiga related situation simply feels highly unmanaged. I still try to believe Hyperion does have some business plan, but I can't anticipate, what is it all about. I would suggest porting to ARM, and Amiga HW company to orientiate towars such an ecosystem. Before the port is done, A15 quad-cores will be very general and suitable HW for many tasks ...

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KingKong 
Re: AmigaOS can be better
Posted on 27-Dec-2011 8:46:04
#439 ]
Member
Joined: 21-Oct-2006
Posts: 95
From: Germany

Yeah, Linux is obviously an alternative to MS but perhaps AmigaOS can be better.

AmigaOS may be a great chance to develop a universal OS that can work nearly everywhere very well.

The PPC hardware is good enough, maybe even better for industry/military. Joe average want to watch videos, not to create an 3D anime. Take a good grafic card, cut some unnecessary gimmicks, use a modest resolution and even new games could be played on AmigaOne X1000 (only my hope, ask the experts).

The main point is not speedy-speed ... it's reliability and security.

Well, the price is not irrelevant but in mass production Amiga can be as cheap as wintel and no question: Amiga is cult - MS/Intel is not. Of course (if all goes well) AmigaOS will sometimes be ported to ARM, AMD, ... but for starters there's nothing wrong with PPC. (all imho)

Last edited by KingKong on 27-Dec-2011 at 08:58 AM.

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KimmoK 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 27-Dec-2011 12:27:32
#440 ]
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Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5191
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

"ARM cpu - ARM is a king of embedded plus mobile ecosystem"

I think PowerPC is still the king for more powerfull embedded systems and is faster (slightly) for desktop. Power will drop behind ARM unless nothing changes.
PDA devices push ARM heavily forward.

Power development has overlooked some embedded niches since it became the most powerfull and most sold game console chip.

If some small miracle happens and Power chip designers get their heads straight, we could see PDA caliber PPC to appear very quickly.
2Ghz multicore PPC SoC should be already ok for Amiga desktop needs.

Also, it could be that x86 SoCs become mature enough for niche boards for niche desktops (they soon manage to do good enough x86 PDA chip). Untill that happens, I believe our niche systems stay around PPC.


Any idea if PPC+r700 kind of HW is easier to port to (from game consoles) than x86+r700 HW?
I imagine the hardest work is always elsewhere than around endianess etc.


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