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Hardware News   Hardware News : Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
   posted by BigBentheAussie on 19-Dec-2011 19:44:52 (56323 reads)
Commodore USA has a final challenge for this community that could enable them to have a new Commodore AMIGA with absolutely any of the features they want. We are serious about this, and we hope you will also take this offer seriously too, and contribute positively to the fruition of the Commodore AMIGA dream.

Allow me to outline our final challenge to the community, and how we can work together towards a unifying goal.
I have a list of obligations for the parties.


1. The community must definitively decide, through polls or whatever, what exactly it wants a Commodore AMIGA from Commodore USA to be.
2. Commodore USA will build and/or sell all product/s that will bear the official Commodore AMIGA brand.
3. Commodore USA will sell the first batch of a particular product AT (THEIR) COST to pre-paid customers only.
4. A minimum of 500 customers must pre-pay the entire amount in an independent account at a trusted institution (at the community's discretion) for the project to begin.
5. Commodore USA will negotiate for all required technology, be it software or hardware, and such costs will be divided by the amount of customers in the initial batch. So the more that join in, the lower the overall cost.
6. Commodore USA will outline all the costs, in as much detail as they are able to, before any customers make payment.
7. Commodore USA is ONLY paid on completion of the work to the satisfaction of the 500+ first batch customers, when the final product is ready to ship.
8. On project commencement, Commodore USA will provide monthly project updates until completion.
9. If Commodore USA does not perform the required work in 6 months of the project commencement date, then the 500+ customers have the option to withdraw immediately for a full refund of their prepayment.
10. Commodore USA reserve the right to affix a margin, at their discretion, to future sales of the product/s, past the initial batch.
11. The community will nominate two independent representatives or leaders who will liaise more closely with Commodore USA and report back to the community.
12. Sometimes negotiations require an NDA, that would limit public consumption of exact costs. In such circumstances that an NDA is required, the two nominated representatives of the community, who will also be under NDA, can independently verify such costs.
13. There will be no advertising of the product or its components by Commodore USA until project commencement.
14. In the meantime, Commodore USA will potentially continue with its current x86 based Commodore AMIGA plans, that will co-exist with the community's desired Commodore AMIGA branded product/s.

Warmest Regards,
Leo Nigro
Chief Technology Officer
Commodore USA, LLC
lan@commodoreusa.net
www.CommodoreUSA.net
    

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PosterThread
SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:08:03
#241 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

@Franko

Whatever. I'm mad then. Help with the poll (yes/no)


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Everblue 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:09:03
#242 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 24-Sep-2006
Posts: 641
From: Amigaland

I also would like a poll, but please put in a price factor, otherwise is useless. For example it is no point in saying what you want but you are not prepared to spend more than X amount of money for it.


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Krischan76 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:11:54
#243 ]
Member
Joined: 25-Dec-2007
Posts: 47
From: outside the looney bin

Quote:
Amig-aryan

Finally - the Nazi analogy.

Any decisions made on who's worthy to take part in the poll, like 5000+ posts?

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SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:11:59
#244 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

@vision
Quote:
Don´t loose your time with these kind of people. They NEVER, EVER accept even a little change on their opinion about companies, they already made a map on who's "good" and "bad", so it is too hard for them to change the plot of their movie at this point.


I understand. Lucky for most of us, the legal system doesn't actually kill you under the same guidelines..:-\


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vision 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:18:00
#245 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-Jun-2005
Posts: 480
From: Unknown

@Krischan76

Inevitable , isn´t it?

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SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:24:48
#246 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

@ ALL

On the AW IRC channel now, I'll see if I can flag down a Mod. Can someone start a CUSA Poll questions thread please?

We need so far....

My suggestions

- Do you want a new AMIGA computer (no specs, just yes/no)
- Can you bare/stand/get over it being "possibly" made by CUSA (no debates! yes/no)
- Will this computer run AMIGA OS (Yes/No/don't care)

If 1st question get majority of no, send response to BigBen, no thanks
If yes, go to question 2

If 2nd question gets majority of no, send response to BigBen, no thanks
if yes, go to question 3

If Yes to last question, go to next poll What AMIGA OS for new PC

If No to last question, go to next poll Choose the new OS for new PC

- Others suggestions (sorry about no names, I don't want to go back and re-read.)

Price - Some sort of range err, $250 - 1500 ??? just an example, hash it out in thread.


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KimmoK 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:27:41
#247 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5191
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

To me it seems C= USA is interested in developing new AOS4 HW if community wants it.

I would like to see this kind of poll:

What are the community's needs for next HW (2H/2012).

1-participate in bringing the NetBook to market (sooner+better drivers+higher volume)
2-bring a new ultra low end desktop/retrogames console to market (around 300EUR)
3-bring cost reduced SAM460 kind of HW to market (co-operation with ACube) (around 500EUR)
4-partner with A-Eon to bring their next HW to market (X2000? ~1000EUR)
5-bring the power2people MPC6810 HW to market (~500EUR?)
6-bring a NATAMI+PPC+PCIe comboHW to market (~700EUR?)
7-something else

Prices would include AOS4 license.
Later (or at the same time) MOS and AROS could be brought to the HW platform.


For some reason I could not set it up by myself.
(too many fingers on keyboard error, perhaps)

Last edited by KimmoK on 20-Dec-2011 at 01:34 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 20-Dec-2011 at 01:31 PM.
Last edited by KimmoK on 20-Dec-2011 at 01:28 PM.


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jas_mc 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:34:17
#248 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 8-May-2010
Posts: 232
From: Unknown

In one sense, this isn't too radical an idea. It's basically Leo offering to build a niche product for a niche community, with the prospect of selling hundreds rather than tens of thousands of units. It's not too different to what companies like AEon are trying to do. The prospect of putting the money in escrow, with the community agreeing on the third party, softens the blow of the prepayment (although that will always be a red line here).

There are a couple of things here that make the proposition a bit weird.

Firstly, selling the first five hundred at cost (and hoping to sell additional units at profit) seems mental, because any hardware designed entirely to please this community is unlikely to sell much more than that. Clearing four figures feels like it would be a major coup for this project. You're probably agreeing to sell most of your units at cost there.

Secondly, I don't get why Leo wants to do this? It doesn't fit into CUSA's long-term plans for the Amiga brand. It feels like they would be doing it as a one-off, but I'm not sure what the point of the one-off would be, other than to gain the goodwill of the Amiga diehards? But by definition, if CUSA has to worry about the goodwill of the Amiga diehards, then they have failed, because they were trying to be contenders, and a community this small should be a complete irrelevance to a contender.

I wonder if this is something that Leo is doing off his own bat, with minimal oversight or involvement from Barry, purely for sentimental reasons. Barry has nothing but contempt for this community.

Personally, I think CUSA should stick to building retro-branded PCs with own-brand Linux, and pre-install the Linux too. Whatever Amiga purists might think, that IS an interesting prospect (I'm a Linux fan too), and it will appear to the average user as a distinct/ novel computing experience (even if it's nothing a more advanced user couldn't assemble himself).

I think it's too late to befriend this community anyway.


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SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:37:52
#249 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

@KimmoK
Quote:
To me it seems C= USA is interested in developing new AOS4 HW if community wants it.


All good, however I think we need to decide if we want OS4 first or OS3 or AROS or something else like MOS before we even look at hardware.


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SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:42:52
#250 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

@jas_mc

Maybe. ahh heck. We wouldn't all be here if it wasn't for some sort of hope, obscure or mad as it may be.

If there's a snowball's chance in hell for a better and faster developed AMIGA, i'm all ears.
The OS development travels at a snails pace and then there's the whole fragment issue of AROS/MOS
hell, i'd love to use AOS again but i need some basics! like under 1500 buy in?? seriously! and video playback with recent codecs? oh hec, skip even that, I need multi-user sharing! I can't have my kids trash my desktop!

all takes time and money and development though. If we can just give them something like a yes ok, AOS box please, this price, this spec. might take a year. hell. how long did we wait for OS4 !!!

Last edited by SHADES on 20-Dec-2011 at 01:44 PM.


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KimmoK 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:45:39
#251 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 14-Mar-2003
Posts: 5191
From: Ylikiiminki, Finland

@SHADES

To me it's mainly about the HW.
To me it seems AOS4 might be the hardest to get onboard, but it's the only one going to new Amiga dedicated HWs.
For MOS I imagine it is just matter of paying for the port.
For AROS, the port happen anyway.
For 68k/AOS fans the NATAMI+PPC+PCIe option should be fine

If most people would wote something else, we should then study more.


+ one day MOS will be ARM or x86 based anyway, as it seems.

Last edited by KimmoK on 20-Dec-2011 at 01:45 PM.


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// For freedom, for honor, for AMIGA
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SHADES 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:53:40
#252 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 13-Nov-2003
Posts: 659
From: Melbourne

@KimmoK

that's fine.
We need to decide what to run though. You could be completely correct! It could go MOS easily because Hyperion won't join in and they have made it clear that they won't allow AROS, so, the only AMIGA like alternative left to build is MOS!

If it does happen though, boy will it boost development to get some money and maybe even additional development.

I'm not saying MOS is my personal first choice however, a lot of this depends on the owners of the IPs of AMIGA. If they say no, AMIGA development stays as it is right now unless there is some sort of "mass" take-up.

I want the AMIGA OS, that's why I am here however, not at any cost! that's not reasonable!. I want a diverse range of hardware for it too one day but we have to start somewhere and that means selling something 500 times if this offer is a legitimate one.

Last edited by SHADES on 20-Dec-2011 at 01:56 PM.
Last edited by SHADES on 20-Dec-2011 at 01:54 PM.


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scabit 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 13:59:04
#253 ]
Super Member
Joined: 8-Jan-2005
Posts: 1667
From: Satellite Beach, FL USA

If this is serious (and lets say that it is), why doesn't CUSA contact Hyperion?

CUSA could market an extremely low end Amiga device such as a $100 Amiga tablet using OS4 and probably sell several hundred if not a few thousand to people who still have fond memories of the Amiga but have been out of the loop for a couple decades.
Imagine if CUSA advertises a 5" or 7" tablet that runs Amiga OS4, allows internet access and not only has the look and feel of Amiga OS but is also based on the original Amiga source code (as OS4 is).... when people hear about it they might be tempted to throw a hundred bucks or so into it just because of their fond memories.
Let ACube and others make the high end devices, so if anyone who buys the CUSA Amiga tablet really likes it there is a hardware upgrade path available.

If Hyperion isn't interested, then perhaps talk to the people who make Natami and make an Old School Amiga joystick with prepackaged games...there's lots to choose from. Better yet, a WIFi Amiga joystick that lets you download games from Aminet!

Or go to the MOS people if neither of the others are interested and make a MOS based machine for the masses.

Seriously, I don't see room for competition, nor enough sales, for high end Amigas these days until the public presence is made aware of the fact that these OSes are STILL being developed today. The X1000 more than fills the high end Amiga slot right now.


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redrumloa 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 14:01:17
#254 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

Quote:
Poster: wajdy Date: 20-Dec-2011 11:15:33

To all those trying to unify AROS, Morphos and AOS4: this will accelerate NOTHING!

Let Hyperion be the OS partners and ACUBE be the hardware manufacturer....Both as OEM

and CUSA be the front end company responsible for:

- marketing
- handling sales operations through channel partners
- funding software projects and creating a market place.
We need software like Office, Image Processing, Audio, Video....

A good hardware project will be state of the art HD TOASTER.


Are you serious? Really?


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CritAnime 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 14:04:03
#255 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 27-Jun-2011
Posts: 735
From: UK

@Thread
Seems to me that we are essentially having to come up with the ideas once again for what CUSA should be doing. So here is my two penny's worth on this.

1: How about they think about producing replacement cases and maybe keyboards for our ageing systems. Many of us still own classic machines and lets be honest they are not going to last for ever. And if CUSA could find a way of producing cheap, and I am not talking about $300+ dollar cases like the C64X was, replacement stuff then I am sure some people would be interested in buying them. Or even using them for their own projects.

2: A lot of people seem to be going round in circles about putting AROS on these machines. But whats stopping CUSA from producing cheap HW that is AROS compatible and just selling that. Even it's just a bundle of hw guts to put in your own case with their "connections" to various Chinese companies then surely there must be a cheap way for them to do it.

3: This whole OS4 thing could be solved the same way. Just do a bundle that is tailored to OS4.

4:Before asking 500 people to put their money down then how about actually giving us some ball park figures on what your expecting each unit to retail at. And then what you will actually be getting as part of the package. Such as monitors, mice, keyboards and ect. Also a breakdown of costs per part wouldn't go amiss.

5: Keep Barry away from the communities. It's been said before but he is like throwing napalm over a burning village at times.


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damocles 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 14:05:01
#256 ]
Super Member
Joined: 22-Dec-2007
Posts: 1719
From: Unknown

Quote:
I also would like a poll, but please put in a price factor, otherwise is useless. For example it is no point in saying what you want but you are not prepared to spend more than X amount of money for it.


That is a direct function of cost vs number of people wanting the product. Say total cost of producing the most wanted product is $75,000USD. That is divided by the number of people (min 500) for total costs. So let us say it was 500 people wanting product X (500 units are to be produced), so that is $75,000USD divided by 500 people = $150UDS @ person would have to pay into a third party escrow account. 500 products units are shipped, C=USA collects the escrow money. Now if it's a very expensive item, say $1,000,000USD total out of pocket costs, that would mean each of those 500 persons would have to put in $2,000USD into escrow.


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redrumloa 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 14:10:14
#257 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 7-Feb-2005
Posts: 562
From: Unknown

Waking up this morning and catching up, my first thought is to say "this is like herding cats". My second thought is "this is like herding rabid dogs".

Someone mentioned, too many people in the Kommunity do NOT want to leave the sand box. A few hundred active users grouped together with self imposed persecution complex is all they want. They say they want wider acceptance in the computing world, but that is just lip service. In reality they just want to stay in the sand box.

CUSA: Hi, we would like to assist making and marketing a product. What would you like?

Kommunity: OMGWTF?? DIE DIE DIE DIE!!!


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wajdy 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 14:21:33
#258 ]
Regular Member
Joined: 27-Oct-2006
Posts: 182
From: Amigania

@redrumloa
Quote:
Are you serious? Really?


I took my medicines this morning, so I should be serious then!
Unrealistic you mean?
You have to challenge CUSA and I find those options viable!

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linnar 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 14:29:20
#259 ]
Cult Member
Joined: 26-Dec-2005
Posts: 923
From: Unknown

This is a historic opportunity!

Starting form the common requirements.
Negotiate with CUSA.
Change if necessary.
Go on.

All ideas are taken into account.

When / if the computer is finished and delivered will continue to roll in with updates, new computers and new fun day in front the computer, no, in front of the * AMIGA * !

Come on Amiga Community, the future is just around the corner!

What do we do now to move on?

Last edited by linnar on 20-Dec-2011 at 02:30 PM.


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CodeSmith 
Re: Commodore USA's Final Challenge to the Community
Posted on 20-Dec-2011 14:34:21
#260 ]
Elite Member
Joined: 8-Mar-2003
Posts: 3045
From: USA

@redrumloa

My thoughts exactly. CUSA is damned if they do and damned if they don't. They've suggested a way to possibly improve the situation with no risk to us or themselves, and it's just getting thrown back in their face. When they eventually get fed up and leave, we'll just get more "oh noes, if only some hardware company would support us!". From the same crowd who chased them off.

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