@TrevorD

Nice to meet you Trevor and a Merry Christmas to you too mate! :)


Ok, been reading this thread with interest. As a CUSA supporter (over half a year) I have a proposition for both 'sides' if you will. How about we skip the Natami and go straight into development of a proper 64-bit Amiga for this special project? As some have quite rightly said, they have more than sufficient machines like the X1000 that they don't need another such Amiga. So what do we do instead? As a community coming together we make a true 64-bit Amiga, based on the Freescale Qoriq T5 ie. Motorola PowerPC7, 28nm, multicore chip and a board with modern multi-interconnects. Perhaps do this with the help of Varisys, Hyperion (to develop OS5) and/or TrevorD's help in the design of the board, all put into a CUSA Amiga case. Then at a later date, CUSA helps to produce Commodore/Amiga branded peripherals for all to use with this machine.

Guys, what do you think?

@thread & all....

let's see....you guys complain--rightfully, I think--when Como-Dork & successors go and do stuff without checking with us. Then, when somebody actually asks you what you want, you do nothing but grip. Jeez!

So....what they are really asking is, in fact, the old bugaboo, what makes it an "Amiga", other than the logo?

I don't care what you call it--hell, use the name I came up with for a project to out-Ami Ami back before the A4000/A1200 came out, "Novia". It's Spanish, look it up, but the implication was 'more than just an Amiga'.

Oddly enough, in doing that project, I came to the conclusion that what makes an Ami an Ami is, in fact, the name. Or rather, what it represents. Which is Jerry Pournelle's definition of 'user-friendly', "Allowing the user to do what he wants to do, the way he wants to do it". You want a CLI? Right here. You want a Desktop? At your service. You want to save memory? 1-bit plane, coming up. 16 color hi-res screen? Sure thing. Want a Klingon font? No prob. You get the idea. So.... my suggestions:

1: A standard form-factor m/b built around the best performing CPU and chip-set available.

2: Call it a 'AAAA' graphics chip set, capable of doing all the original modes, and their logical extensions, at 32 bits--8xRGBA--as well as standard 8/16/24/32 bit planar modes, in hardware, and perhaps a logarithmic DTA as well. This should still be available even if another graphics card is installed, unlike the WinDon't system I'm writing this on. And, yes, make the system clock an even (1024 or 2048) multiple of the standard color clock. Even though that's an obsolete concept anymore.

3: Standard slots & ports--PCIx, USB3 (or 4), SATA7+1 audio--with capture; again, you get the drill. Ditto power supply, BRD.

4: Aside from The Accursed Logo, I actually like this keyboard, although I did like the 'vanilla/butterscotch' color scheme of the originals.

5: The machine comes with a basic O/S--C=O/S, maybe--on one partition of a BIG HD. It includes software to set up the flavor DOS of the owner's choosing, AOS 1.2 to 4.1, WinUAE, NoviaO/S, whatever, including the hardware drivers. Since CUSA doesn't supply it, CUSA doesn't have to deal with Hype-erion, MOS, BeOS, QNX, etc. Heck, run Snow Leopard or TOS 1.4 if you own a copy....

6. Of course, you need the support software, some of which isn't available in all the available candidate O/S's, so fund the porting of, say, Libre Office to AROS and such as don't have it, Firefox or OWB, etc.

7: One of the Joys of Ami is the ease of writing usable code, from shell scripts to ARexx (not quite so much) to BASIC (HiSoft Pro was great,except for a few minor issues, and one nasty bug) and even C and assembly. Make sure these are available to those who want them.

8: Documents. My last two WinDon't machines had 1 page of manual between them. Especially, DON'T put hardware/setup manuals on .PDF.....at least, not only....

9: Hardware options: Number of CPUs, cores; (mini-)desktop, tower, console; if you're cleverer than I, if you can make the m/b work in an A-1200 or even an A4k/t case, all the better.

In case you haven't figured it out, I want the Amiga we'd have had if Irving the Gua'uld hadn't messed up; I have no issue with the retro boys & girls, but I'm a Tim Allen type--MORE POWER! That, alas, implies Intel or AMD chips. Yeah. Sucks. But most of the reasons for choosing Motorola versus Intel have disappeared; the 64-k segments, the sparse registers, all that is a thing of the past. So, it doesn't suck as bad as it would have in 1990....

Now, if you want details, just send me a note....

@BigBentheAussie:

Well new hardware is just one thing. But what about all the necessary drivers even currently missing for the different existing platforms (e.g. graphic card support 2D/3D, WiFi, USB3.0, ...)? How would this be handled together with this new platform? Would you also investigate (in some way) in that?

redrumloa wrote:

Quote:

[...] Reality is nice, you should try it some time. [...]

TrevorD wrote:

Quote:

[...] I have personally financed the "First Contact" production run. [...] I am also personally financing the next development effort which is already underway.

Isn't reality a bitch?

_________________

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I have personally financed the "First Contact" production run. AmigaKit is only now taking deposits to confirm final orders. There is no pre-funding requirement from customers.

And same for the Beta boards?

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Dammy

Quote:

Poster: damocles Date: 21-Dec-2011 12:57:00 Quote: I have personally financed the "First Contact" production run. AmigaKit is only now taking deposits to confirm final orders. There is no pre-funding requirement from customers. And same for the Beta boards?

Right and no 3rd party escrow in either case. The "beta-testers" prepaid 50% and waited what? A year? I'm not here to slag Trevor in any case, he seems to be a stand up guy and completely trustworthy. All reports are people that got tired of waiting were refunded. It is indeed a nice change to see such ethics after the past scam artists.

My point is how silly it is to praise one non 3rd party pre-payment sceme while brutally slagging the idea of a 3rd party escrow pre-payment. I guess par for the course in this Kommunity.

Last edited by redrumloa on 21-Dec-2011 at 01:35 PM.

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I'd wish you'd stop using the word Kommunity.

It sounds degrading.....

Last edited by Metalheart on 21-Dec-2011 at 01:47 PM.

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I do not know what the other "Guys" think but noone will hinder anyone to do something. But how do you want to persuade the 68k, Aros and MorphOS camp to buy it? And most of the OS4 supporter already own one or more than one, why will they buy another one? And who will pay the development? And how it is differentiating from existing hardware?

I do not think that this would be idea that unifies the community...

@redrumloa

You have a point but CUSA have not come out with anything to suggest how much these machines, beta or not, will cost. So if theyt turn round and say they want $2,500, which they have suggested once upon a time would be the going rate for their vision of the amiga, would you be happy throwing that into an escrow and having it basically sat there doing nothing?

They really need to think about at least telling us a ball park estimate for the case. That would be a start.

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All hardware that is/or soon will be available for AmigaOS4 is underpowered or overpriced or in most cases both...

so I would prefer to focus on "retro machine" or switch to X86 (no matter if we are talking about AOS4 with some build in 68k/ppc emulation or AROS)

Quote:

You have a point but CUSA have not come out with anything to suggest how much these machines, beta or not, will cost. So if theyt turn round and say they want $2,500, which they have suggested once upon a time would be the going rate for their vision of the amiga, would you be happy throwing that into an escrow and having it basically sat there doing nothing?

That's why the community needs to be realistic because you will never get 500 orders for something like a PPC laptop or a new high end motherboard. Hell, even a SoC PCC based will be costly... look at Acube Sam460.

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@thread

First things first

Hyperion needs to get a NEW LICENCE for AmigaOS / Amiga name for ANY DEVICE, FOR ANY USE, NOW or FUTURE.

Hyperion needs to invision the future processor for Amigas.
Hyperion needs to invision the future GFX card/chip for Amigas.

Hyperion needs to invision the non replicatibe uniqueness of Amiga HW/SW.

ONLINE AmigaOS 3.x, 4.x, MOS, AROS API compare / checker.

introduce API independant code modules.

Dedicated Amiga Game programming tutorials in C, C++ website.

get hardware manufacturers to use minimum GFX chipset for laptop :

Aim for Nvidia
Intel HD Graphics 3000 ( fastest non Nvidia/AMD) chipset

Last edited by asymetrix on 21-Dec-2011 at 04:58 PM.
Last edited by asymetrix on 21-Dec-2011 at 04:11 PM.

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Quote:

Poster: Metalheart Date: 21-Dec-2011 13:43:42 I'd wish you'd stop using the word Kommunity. It sounds degrading.....

It is not meant that way whatsoever. I'd be degrading myself if it was meant such as I was an Amiga Inc supporter myself until about late 2002. The term Kommunity is back from a time when there was very little division, only some hatred towards emulator users but not much.

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I normally stay out of CUSA threads, but...

@BigBentheAussie

If there's any consensus at all, it's that a "Commodore Amiga" should have an Amiga-like OS. Some would settle for nothing less than OS4, but that's the common denominator. More people would prefer an Amiga-branded computer to have AROS or MOS than Linux and we all know that such a thing would have a decent uptake.

Last time, Hyperion weren't interested and you didn't want to face the legal challenge. Either you try and change one of those things, or you may as well as admit you've been planning to use Linux all along.

Any more polls and questions are pointless at this stage. It's just asking people to choose between a bunch of options, some or all of which may be impossible, only to shoot them down one by one. It's over to you now, Leo. Come back and tell "this is the OS we're able to use - it's OS4/OS3/MOS/AROS" but more questions will get us nowhere!

Chris

I don't have time to read 300+ posts so it runs down to this Leo: an official Amiga should have AmigaOS on it, so , instead of writing stuff such as this here, you should contact Hyperion and negotiate with them a joint venture...

Last edited by DAX on 21-Dec-2011 at 06:45 PM.

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@Dax

Quote:

I don't have time to read 300+ posts so it runs down to this Leo: an official Amiga should have AmigaOS on it, so , instead of writing stuff such as this here, you should contact Hyperion and negotiate with them a joint venture...

So you get to decide? Awesome! Glad to know the community has a new leader. I personally want to see the AAA chipset. I'm sure many don't agree with me so I won't claim that's what has to be done.

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@Terminills
"Properly done" you would have AmigaOS on a new Amiga that's all I meant. AAA is also an Amiga piece sure, but contrary to AmigaOS, it cannot be turned (today) into something that can be used for modern applications.
As Haynie said, it was scrapped for being too late and they were going for a PCI bus with a card stuck in it (interchangeable with a third party made one eventually) and if it was too late in 1994 I don't see how it would be good in 2011 (so to speak).

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Quote:

"Properly done" you would have AmigaOS on a new Amiga that's all I meant. AAA is also an Amiga piece sure, but contrary to AmigaOS, it cannot be turned (today) into something that can be used for modern applications. As Haynie said, it was scrapped for being too late and they were going for a PCI bus with a card stuck in it (interchangeable with a third party made one eventually) and if it was too late in 1994 I don't see how it would be good in 2011 (so to speak).

Technically it could handle modern applications fine. Modern games not so much. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Hombre_chipset

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@redrumloa

Quote:

Dude, seriously, do you have any ability to reason whatsoever?

I stated my opinion on what was on offer, not very much, and you counter it by taking my statement and editing it to create a non-factual attack A-EON which wasn't even the subject of this thread. I don't have the ability to reason?

Quote:

I am being serious here. How is it that your mind finds Trevor as someone who fell on his sword for the great Amiga, yet Barry sacrifices small children and worships the devil.

This is Leo's thread. I didn't mention Barry yet you are putting words in my mouth suggesting that I have some irrational hatred of him personally.

Quote:

They are both running a business, they have both taken financial risks and they would both like to be successful. If someone wrongly slams CUSA for suggesting pre-payment claiming it is to finance a project when in reality they stated it would be to 3rd party escrow

It doesn't matter if the money is in escrow. They'd be paying in advance for a product that hasn't been seen or demoed. At least the X1000 existed and had been demoed publicly so customers had some idea of the quality of the product they were/are buying.

Quote:

Reality is nice, you should try it some time.

Thanks for the lulz.

Quote:

I also don't see your venom towards Amigakit and A-Eon for their pre-payment scheme on the "First Contact" systems. Let me guess, Matt threw himself on his sword too? No, pre-payments are being used to finance production.

AmigaKit have a proven track record and I have done business with Trevor previously so there were no issues for me. If they were an unknown quantity then of course I'd be suspicious. Also if you consider what I have said with regard to CUSA as venomous then you must be extremely sensitive.


P.S.

I slammed Amigakit on the forums when they revealed the AmigaONE keyboard, so I am not some blind fanboy who thinks they can do no wrong. Having said that, I still get on fine with Matt and the rest of the AmigaKit team. It was the product I didn't like, not the people.

P.P.S.

I don't beleive anything will ever come of this "initiative".

Last edited by Rob on 21-Dec-2011 at 10:18 PM.

@Terminills
As you know AAA and Project Hombre are two different things (I was talking about the former),
Besides, while the PCI bus was already a reality, Hombre was ultra late itself, which would have led third parties Video card to be far more powerful even before its completion...(sad but true).

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